Viper production slowed by one third due to sluggish sales

[Ian]

Are you seriously coming here and advocating an electric Viper? That's just fail...electric cars and to some degree hybrids are little more than the physical manifestation of a misguided liberal political agenda...I don't even want to get into the fact that the whole "man-made global warming (now it's cooling)" is a total farce with no scientific basis - but that fiction is the catalyst used to justify doling out billions of taxpayer dollars to fund these electric car programs as well as the mountains of new regulations put forth by the EPA to prevent an imaginary problem.

Your assertion that electric motors do not need cooling is false. They absolutely need to be cooled because heat has a substantial impact on their performance - electrical conductivity is inversely proportional to the temperature of said conductor. That means the hotter the wire, the less electricity can travel through it.

Beyond that, electric motors are powered by batteries (the most practical method) lose performance the moment you apply an electrical load. The battery voltage constantly drops incrementally; and when a high-amp load is placed on the battery, it's overall voltage drops. Improvements in battery technology have been able to reduce this effect but it's hardly been eliminated.

There are power density issues where, pound for pound, electric motors are outperformed by gas-burning counterparts. This problem also exists on the fuel side...there is more energy in one pound of gasoline than you could ever hope to extract from a one pound battery. When the power storage issue is addressed, soulless electric vehicles may become practical for certain applications...but never will there be a practical reason for an electric or hybrid Viper.

And here is where we have the problem........

 

[Ian]

Are you seriously coming here and advocating an electric Viper? That's just fail...electric cars and to some degree hybrids are little more than the physical manifestation of a misguided liberal political agenda...I don't even want to get into the fact that the whole "man-made global warming (now it's cooling)" is a total farce with no scientific basis - but that fiction is the catalyst used to justify doling out billions of taxpayer dollars to fund these electric car programs as well as the mountains of new regulations put forth by the EPA to prevent an imaginary problem.

Your assertion that electric motors do not need cooling is false. They absolutely need to be cooled because heat has a substantial impact on their performance - electrical conductivity is inversely proportional to the temperature of said conductor. That means the hotter the wire, the less electricity can travel through it.

Beyond that, electric motors are powered by batteries (the most practical method) lose performance the moment you apply an electrical load. The battery voltage constantly drops incrementally; and when a high-amp load is placed on the battery, it's overall voltage drops. Improvements in battery technology have been able to reduce this effect but it's hardly been eliminated.

There are power density issues where, pound for pound, electric motors are outperformed by gas-burning counterparts. This problem also exists on the fuel side...there is more energy in one pound of gasoline than you could ever hope to extract from a one pound battery. When the power storage issue is addressed, soulless electric vehicles may become practical for certain applications...but never will there be a practical reason for an electric or hybrid Viper.

All very true....but coming from a perspective of ignorance through lack of information.....

Lest just pose this.....http://www.multitherm.com/multitherm-ult-170.html

 

[Ian]

The big push for electric is the result of indoctrination for which some folks are the poster children. They'll accuse you of being a troglodyte and call you all sorts of names an lay out doomsday scenarios if you disagree when in fact they can't see how close minded their own views are. That's been my experience anyway and I actually have a hybrid vehicle in my garage. The electric car folks will lay claim to the intellectual high ground and they see themselves as forward thinkers when the idea of electric cars has been around for over a century but some folks can't help but to be exploited as political pawns.

Actually Luddite would be a more accurate term.....

 

[Ian]

The big push for electric is the result of indoctrination for which some folks are the poster children. They'll accuse you of being a troglodyte and call you all sorts of names an lay out doomsday scenarios if you disagree when in fact they can't see how close minded their own views are. That's been my experience anyway and I actually have a hybrid vehicle in my garage. The electric car folks will lay claim to the intellectual high ground and they see themselves as forward thinkers when the idea of electric cars has been around for over a century but some folks can't help but to be exploited as political pawns.

Actually Luddite would be a more accurate term.....

 

[v10enomous]

Actually Luddite would be a more accurate term.....

Yes, Republicans are smashing electric cars in the street... You have some vide of that Actually electric cars have pretty much done themselves in despite massive subsidies...

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

....Or, unwrap the factory supercharger option ASAP and begin touting the factory 750-800 hp that these engines are more than capable of.

Problem solved. Just do it.

Gotta say that would get some attention.

Yes it would BUT it would also be nice if we could pry the off road PCM out of them first for the majority of people waiting... send those emails to Mopar!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

In the middle east, we survived with no official Viper service for ages and we don't have taxes here!
what could be worse train some techs here or stick by the stupid network in the u.s?

I provide parts and technical services to many owners in the middle east and have helped their service centers diagnose/repair issues from my desk, they are great to work with and it is very satisfying to be able to serve them from such a distance. We have even been offered to fly techs and myself over there to work on engine builds and supercharger installs for an entire group, flattering, and maybe possible someday, but not all that practical for our team to leave for weeks at a time.

 

[Ian]

Yes, Republicans are smashing electric cars in the street... You have some vide of that Actually electric cars have pretty much done themselves in despite massive subsidies...

Lol....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCmVQTKj8AM

Can't put a gun rack in a volt....what a dolt....speaking of dolts....can't u post anything without that same emoticon?

I mean it must be so fascinating to you, that teacher showed you how to do that last week, in school lunch break....you can't stop using it...lol

 

[Ian]

Lol....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCmVQTKj8AM

Can't put a gun rack in a volt....what a dolt....speaking of dolts....can't u post anything without that same emoticon?

I mean it must be so fascinating to you, that teacher showed you how to do that last week, in school lunch break....you can't stop using it...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6y4GO9ELJ0

 

[ROCKET62]

It would be interesting to know how many of the 13/14's are being bought by non-viper owners? Did it attract a new buyer to the Viper brand? It would be also interesting to know for those Viper owners that bought the Gen 5, did they come more from any one group - ie Gen 1/2, Gen 3, or Gen 4?

The Gen 5 certainly is the "best" Viper built, and the incremental changes may not have been enough to encourage current owners to upgrade. The Viper marketing has never been the greatest in the past, so I can't really blame the marketing team - although it certainly could be improved. There certainly was a big splash in the magazines when it was released - some good, some not-so-good - but all press is good press. Most of the people I talk to still don't even know that the Gen 5 exists.

My top thoughts on why the Viper is moving slowly:
The economy
The perception that the average price is $140k+ and the crazy upcharges initially tried by the dealers
Only slight incremental improvements for current Viper owners. Locked down PCM/questions on upgradability.
NO CONVERTIBLE. It appeared that the current design allowed for an easy release of the Vert - so spy photo's need to start leaking out to rejuvenate the excitement. I think the Gen 4 vert top is great - but make an electric top an option - don't force the extra $$ on everyone as the current price "perception" is that the Viper already costs too much.

 

[v10enomous]

The people who can't get a website up with almost a billion dollars and 3 1/2 years and couldn't run a lemonade stand for that matter preaching science... Rich

Here's one of your top scientists...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6y4GO9ELJ0

 

[ACRucrazy]

Can we get back on topic here and ignore the new guy?

 

[v10enomous]

Can we get back on topic here and ignore the new guy?

I'm done with him. He's too far gone. I'm putting him on my ignore list. Apologies.

 

[ViperSmith]

Local dealer who had a $135,000 GTS sitting on their floor since May (with the original +$50k adm) and now $14k off sticker has a 2014 GTS with a sticker of $142,000 in transit to the show room.

Apparently the dealers haven't figured out that $140,000 cars aren't moving. I bet it would go quickly if it was a SRT...

 

[VCA Forum Staff]

Seems that whenever I want to post a pic now it says I have exceeded my limit.....guess I must be banned again.

You are not banned, moderated, or otherwise; nor have you ever been banned here.

There is a limit to the amount of attachments that can be uploaded to ones control panel attachment list.




Now if we can please return to the original subject.....

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Can we get back on topic here and ignore the new guy?

How many other cars out there have a manual transmission and performance that matches/ is close to the SRT Viper?

To me, the manual transmission is a huge selling point. As far as I am concerned the Viper's competition at this price point is the ZR1 and Audi R8 V10. (Am I missing anything else?) The Viper is still cheaper then both of them.

 

[pathoguy]

Nissan GT-R (some sites record 10.9 quarter).

As fast as they are, just does not stir the passion like a viper.

 

[Lawrenzo]

How many other cars out there have a manual transmission and performance that matches/ is close to the SRT Viper?

To me, the manual transmission is a huge selling point. As far as I am concerned the Viper's competition at this price point is the ZR1 and Audi R8 V10. (Am I missing anything else?) The Viper is still cheaper then both of them.

Bingo! They should be leveraging that fact until they offer something different. Some of us like to row the gears and wouldn't consider an "automatic" trans'd car period.

 

[jdg1428]

The unfortunate reality to the sluggish sale and the cutting of production in half is CAAP has to cut the workforce by 40-50%. A lot of great craftsman/women will be displace to other plants throughout the corporation. I hope that team SRT can revamp themselves and generate a buzz that this car deserves.

 

[05Commemorative]

How many other cars out there have a manual transmission and performance that matches/ is close to the SRT Viper?

To me, the manual transmission is a huge selling point. As far as I am concerned the Viper's competition at this price point is the ZR1 and Audi R8 V10. (Am I missing anything else?) The Viper is still cheaper then both of them.

I think you just tapped into it's primary problem, not having an automatic. Don't get me wrong, I love shifting, but lets look at some facts. >80% of vettes are automatics. Same for 911's and R8's. I had a friend of mine tell me two years ago a manual was both stupid and out of touch. I said explain and he pointed out a manual today is slower (less performance), more difficult to master for the masses, terrible in traffic, gets worss mileage, etc. He described it as rolling up windows, turning on your headlights or wipers, or playing with the heater in your car. Why would you want to do any of that now when you have electric windows, auto headlights/wipers/climate control. At the end of the day, his is right. His performance point was it was the equivalent on not wanting ABS brakes because you wanted to master braking without them, even though slower. Again, at the end of the day, he is correct. So, the last thing I would do is market the car around it being a manual. That target audience is tiny and shrinking every day.

Boost sales by offering what a large % of people want:
1) automatic (account for 80% of sold in segment)
2) conv (account for ~30-40% of sales; vettes and viper stats from the past)
3) ACR (account for 15%?)

 

[SADVIPER]

No Taxes, sounds great
I agree you could train some people to look after these toys.

But.... The problem comes with new owners expecting to be able to have the factory warranty and a dealership network. I'm not talking about diehard previous Viper owners here, I'm talking about the new owner which SRT wants to connect with.

In the UK we do have companies that import cars from all manufactures and offer a warranty, but these companies are few and far between, so getting your brand spread across the country is not going to work. There would also have to be some sort of Tax deal between the USA and the UK to make the prospect viable.

No idea how it would work selling to the rest of Europe? The Sweed's seem to love American cars, not sure on what import duties would be imposed there?

Since the "new owners" goal was not met in the u.s as Ralph dreamed it won't be met anywhere else, so let them just forget about that and keep the Viper for its lovers and get realistic with it! This is how the Viper always lived! I don't view "new owners" as a must for the Gen V.
Maybe in europe it won't work because it is a big region, but in the middle east it's much smaller and we do have Viper lovers. so far I've seen 3 Vipers and nobody cared about the warranty. But damn only people with strong ties brought them in lol

 

[SADVIPER]

I provide parts and technical services to many owners in the middle east and have helped their service centers diagnose/repair issues from my desk, they are great to work with and it is very satisfying to be able to serve them from such a distance. We have even been offered to fly techs and myself over there to work on engine builds and supercharger installs for an entire group, flattering, and maybe possible someday, but not all that practical for our team to leave for weeks at a time.

See? it works nice right I agree it is not practical for a group like you but hey for me I'll be buying the Viper and enjoying it without such modding. I can live with e-mails if required but still we do have some know-how techs in the country.
Some of the chargers, challengers people here don't even trust the official Dodge dealership network. For sure I'd prefer an excellent dealership service but thats just not the realty with Dodge.

 

[ferraritoviper]

Back on topic. Seems Woodhouse isn't having any trouble selling Vipers! I just looked at their site's inventory list...three 14's, one 13 (1100 miles), one 06 (4000)... 3 new Vipers and 2 used ones. They do list another two 14's as being in transit

 

[GTS-R 001]

Back on topic. Seems Woodhouse isn't having any trouble selling Vipers! I just looked at their site's inventory list...three 14's, one 13 (1100 miles), one 06 (4000)... 3 new Vipers and 2 used ones. They do list another two 14's as being in transit

There is your 100% proof that most Viper sales are to existing / prior Viper owners vs the fictional all elusive NEW VIPER BUYER that SRT was targeting.

 

[ViperSmith]

There is your 100% proof that most Viper sales are to existing / prior Viper owners vs the fictional all elusive NEW VIPER BUYER that SRT was targeting.

There are three of us on this site that never owned a Viper before the Gen V.

So, yes we do exist.

 

[GTS-R 001]

There are three of us on this site that never owned a Viper before the Gen V.

So, yes we do exist.

I thin the percentage that SRT was looking for was higher than less than 1%, they fully expected to sell 4000 Vipers in the first 2 years. They are at barely over 10% of that number

 

[Nambo]

I thin the percentage that SRT was looking for was higher than less than 1%, they fully expected to sell 4000 Vipers in the first 2 years. They are at barely over 10% of that number

I will be a first time Viper owner as well, I just can't get them to build my car and take my money.

 

[ViperSmith]

I thin the percentage that SRT was looking for was higher than less than 1%, they fully expected to sell 4000 Vipers in the first 2 years. They are at barely over 10% of that number

The 10 Gen V owners that post in this forum is hardly a sample size worth noting, I was simply saying we exist. Unless you actually have real figures you can quote, to validate this "1%" claim.

Also, Ralph simply stated they can produce up to 2,000 a year, not that they would.

 

[past ohio]

I have felt that the car market has changed to paddle shifting (automatics) as an option, I thought only standard till I drove the, SLR, Ferrari and Lambo with the paddle shifters... also to help for convert lovers, put in T-tops on the coupe, if you don't want the outdoors, leave the tops on...I like the luxury of both on my vette...my $.02

 

[ViperSmith]

I will be a first time Viper owner as well, I just can't get them to build my car and take my money.

Even for '14s? Capt Van recently placed his order and it is moving down the line.