Viper vs LS1's, etc, WE DON'T STAND A CHANCE

[Skip White]

Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

I'ts a shame that most of the LS1, and most other low level street rods out there will run off and leave the stock Viper, as they all run drag radials, and are often lightly modded.

Here is my solution, all things considered, Nitto as you know makes a great drag radial, but did you know they make a 305/45/18 That's a 28.8 tall tire, add a set of HRE's 546's size 18x10 rims with a half inch inward offset to compensate for the slight sidewall swell, and change gears to a 3.55, drop the rear 3/4 of an inch to compemsate, upgrade the slipping clutch that no one realizes is slipping with a light weight, improved clamping set up, now lets add a shot of juice just to wake the car up a bit, and the LS1's shall be in there place.

I know a lot of you guys don't drag race your car, but would'nt it be nice to feel the power the car really has when sprinting about. There is no drag radial out there this size, and it is not a popular size because of over gearing and it requires a 10 inch wheel, well the SRT not only can accomadate this due to the very large rear wheel well opening, and requires a gear upgrade to start with, it will look great after the car is droped down a bit. The only other option is the Purner set up. That tire is a full inch smaller I believe than stock, that must look terrible. The Nitto's aspect ratio of 45 at a 305 width is awsome, looking. This is one of the reasons this tire rules when it comes to hooking up. There are many other plus's to this, and few drawbacks.

Let's here some feedback on this, I've thought this over a hundred times, pictured it in my head, imagined a hot GM car pulling up next to me, and blowing him away instantly, or just sprinting about, feeling the G-force

 

[YouWish]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

A hot Gm car? Are you kidding me? I already wax every Vette that dares to mess with me. My Viper has just the "normal" bolt-ons. Headers,exhaust,k/n and smooth tubes. Your post made it sound like we as Viper owners are affraid of Vettes or they can beat us??? You couldn't be further from the truth. It takes a very highly modded Vette to run with a stock Viper!!!

 

[CHAD]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Why not run a real drag radial like the BFG 345/30-18 instead of that rediculously tall ricer tire? Then you save yourself the gears to boot.

Do you really think the stock car's clutch slips with stock power?

And don't forget the rear brake mods to run an 18" wheel.

Or you could leave the car completely stock and add the BTR nitrous system or better yet, turbos.

Chad

 

[kaval]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

If I thought that I would get beat by every vette out there I wouldn't spent the extra 50G's on the viper

 

[93Cobra]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Man...the original post is so far from thr truth. On the contrary, if or when a Vette wants to play I know even if I miss a gear (not that I would) I can still real it in....my.02

 

[VIPER D]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

There are cars out there that can run with the vipers a lite modded svt in the right conditions can beat a viper.

see the link

http://vids.modaddict.com/04viper03cobra.wmv

thats why I chose the gorilla warfare approach. Btr's n2o

p.s my best friends 03 svt dynoed 410rwhp with $200 worth of modds. @ stock boost. Its scary if he upps the boost and better exhaust.


vd..

soon to be nitrous d (lol)

 

[fluffy]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

It takes a very highly modded Vette to run with a stock Viper!!!

Nothing could be further from the truth. An inexpensive head/cam package will easily put a Camaro deep into the 11s, and a vette into the low 11s/high 10s. There are also many, many bolt-on f-bodies without any head work at all running in the low 12s and high 11s. It takes only minor modifications to smash a stock Viper in the 1/4 mile, from a standing start.

That being said, there is a good reason for it. Vipers are not set up for drag racing, nor should they be. Despite the almost desperate pontification of european and japanese sports car lovers, the Viper was and is designed to be a track ready race car, not a drag racer. It is wonderful on the track in the hands of an experienced driver, but the stiff rear springs and IRS that allow it to excel in this arena are an anathema to drag racing. A well set up (and lightly modified) Camaro or Mustang can easily run in the mid-low 11s, albeit with a much lower than expected trap speed. The superior live rear end coupled with the softer dampening allow these cars to efficiently put their power to the pavement.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

I'ts a shame that most of the LS1, and most other low level street rods out there will run off and leave the stock Viper, as they all run drag radials, and are often lightly modded.

Here is my solution, all things considered, Nitto as you know makes a great drag radial, but did you know they make a 305/45/18 That's a 28.8 tall tire, add a set of HRE's 546's size 18x10 rims with a half inch inward offset to compensate for the slight sidewall swell, and change gears to a 3.55, drop the rear 3/4 of an inch to compemsate, upgrade the slipping clutch that no one realizes is slipping with a light weight, improved clamping set up, now lets add a shot of juice just to wake the car up a bit, and the LS1's shall be in there place.

I know a lot of you guys don't drag race your car, but would'nt it be nice to feel the power the car really has when sprinting about. There is no drag radial out there this size, and it is not a popular size because of over gearing and it requires a 10 inch wheel, well the SRT not only can accomadate this due to the very large rear wheel well opening, and requires a gear upgrade to start with, it will look great after the car is droped down a bit. The only other option is the Purner set up. That tire is a full inch smaller I believe than stock, that must look terrible. The Nitto's aspect ratio of 45 at a 305 width is awsome, looking. This is one of the reasons this tire rules when it comes to hooking up. There are many other plus's to this, and few drawbacks.

Let's here some feedback on this, I've thought this over a hundred times, pictured it in my head, imagined a hot GM car pulling up next to me, and blowing him away instantly, or just sprinting about, feeling the G-force

Ouch, that's a kick in the balls!
Maybe learn to shift without riding the clutch, that maybe the only mod you need

 

[fluffy]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

As an example of what Skip is talking about, a quick trip to LS1.com revealed a number of F-bodies in the mid-low 11s. Examples of their modifications:

2001 Camaro Z28. [email protected] Mods: MTI Lid, GMS MAF, !Filter, HPP3, ET Streets, Borla Catback, Pullies, Headers, Y-Pipe, ORP, Pro 5.0 Shifter, Urethane Bushings, !FSB, TB Mod, Coolant Bypass, FTRA, MAF Translator

1999 Trans Am. [email protected] Mods: Whisper Lid, Whisper MAF, K&N, HPP3, MT Slicks,  Borla, Headers, Y-Pipe, Pro 5.0, LCAs, SFCs, MTI B1 Cam, Pulleys, Off Road pipe, McLeod, FRA, TB Mod, Coolant bypass, Compucar kit

These are not heavily modified cars. Neither has any head work, neither are running nitrous or forced induction, and both are manual 6 speed cars; they're just good old fashioned drag-racers. They are certainly running race tires, but even if they weren't the trap speed indicates that they would both leave a stock Viper without any trouble at all.

 

[John Myrick]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Viper owners need to pull their heads out of the sand. Skip is just telling it like he sees it instead of trying to ignore the truth.

An automatic Corvette with sticky tires and a few modifications will typically beat a Viper, SRT-10 or GTS, at the dragstrip.

If you take away the automatic and the sticky tires, then the Corvette will need a good driver and a little more modification such as heads and cam. And on top of that the Viper driver better be at the top of his game too.

That's the bad news... The good news is that Vipers can be modified too. Supercharged, turbocharged, nitrous motors, or stroker motor Vipers don't have to worry about those pesky lightly modified Corvettes as much. They just have to worry about supercharged, turbocharged, nitrous motors, or stroker motor Corvettes. I guess it's a never ending battle...

 

[John Myrick]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

The second car listed above appears to be running nitrous. The mph is too high and the last mod listed is Compucar kit. That's a nitrous kit.

 

[fluffy]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Oops, you're correct. I was looking for a shot value and missed the Compucar reference. How about a heads/cam car then:

2000 Camaro Z28. [email protected] Mods: Whisper Lid, GMS 85mm MAF, !Filter, Fiberglass hood, Custom PCM, Hoosier Slicks, !Exhaust, Roll cage, Heads, Cam, Under-drive pulley, Headers, 3500 converter, Shift kit, PHB, LCA, SFC, !FSB, LS6 Intake, TB Mod, Coolant Bypass,  FRA, HAL Shocks, HAL Springs, AFCO Rear shocks, Moser 12 Bolt

A little more heavily modified, but still the stock displacement and no forced induction or nitrous.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

No flame intended, just that the post seems..........well....pointless.
"A modded Vette can beat a stock Viper" "they all run drag radials"

 

[Skip White]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Bigfoot, the post is not pointless. The bottom line here is that when your beat on the street and at the track by cars that are so lightly modded, it's time for us to do the same, and many have not done this. I go to the local drag strip in Fort Worth on test and tune night, and I'm about the slowest car out there, in front of 3-4 hundred people, yes there is something wrong with this picture. Then I'll run down to the local street races once in a while for the same to happen, that's going to be a thing of the past, not to mention, I just want a quicker car.

And as for the Nitto 345/45/18 being a ricer tire, as Bad VPR stated, when have you seen a 28.8 inch tire on a ricer? The 345/30/18 is a small by comparision, around 26 inchs tall, and only a bit wider.

I know the Viper is not a drag car, nor is a Vette, or a Camaro, Cobra included. This post is addressed to those who love the thrill of driving there SRT, but have yet to do any Mod's to it. It's not fare for those that beat the stock Viper in there modded up whatever, and go brag to the whole community how they slaughtered you, but no one cares when you say, "oh but my car is bone stock and I coundn't hook up" I did get a chance to run a stock Trans Am at the track, that guy just bought his car and wanted to see where i'ts at before he starts in on it.

And Bigfoots remark about me riding the clutch and not knowing how to shift, you need to do a mild clutch upgrade and when you hit second gear and the car lunges forward like you've never seen, you will know the Viper clutch is slipping just as the modded Vette does with sticky tires. Stock clutches do slip terribly, take my word on that. Most LS1 cars are automatic, when I hit third the race is over, unless I'm running a half mile race on the street, and I don't do that. I did run a convertable Trans Am at the track, he ran a 7.21 and I ran a 8.30 That has got my attention

Skip

 

[Brian E]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Skip, what have you done to upgrade your clutch? Are you also running an aluminium flywheel?

 

[Skip White]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

I'm running the Fidanza al. flywheel, I'm going to try for the first time a 6 puck ceramic disc, with a sprung hub, and the pressure plate is a stage 3, this is a modified 28% lighter 30% better clamping unit. I have yet to try this combo, but I've been assured this is very streatable. The cost is low for what it is. There is a carbon/carbon set up out there, but it's around $1800.00



The weight savings on my set up is around 26 lbs. That's great.

The Center Force is a very good setup but, it's heavier than the stock unit, and thats very heavy.

The cost will be around $1050.00 for every thing, including the flywheel.

 

[PRVT JET]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Instead of complaining go out and spend some money on roe supercharger and comeback, I bet your story will change very quick. Vipers with just exhaust are running 122mph in the 1/4. a litle more power and slicks and your in the 10's. If you want it the cheap way, exhaust, 150shot, slicks and skinies. With a good driver that's a 10second set up any day.

 

[Skip White]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Quote by, "You Wish"
----------------------------------
A hot Gm car? Are you kidding me? I already wax every Vette that dares to mess with me. My Viper has just the "normal" bolt-ons. Headers,exhaust,k/n and smooth tubes. Your post made it sound like we as Viper owners are affraid of Vettes or they can beat us??? You couldn't be further from the truth. It takes a very highly modded Vette to run with a stock Viper!!!
------------------------------------------------------


Where have you been lately?

I can show you several hundred such cars of the GM line, right here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, that will leave you in there dust. Yes they have been modded, but not much. I do wish the Viper could be modded up for the same price these guys are doing it, but there is one area we have them beat on cost, and thats working on the Viper, have you noticed where the engine sits in a Camaro? We can pull an engine in the time it takes them to put a set of plugs in.

Skip W.

 

[Skip White]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Quote by,"PRVT Jet"
___________________________________________________________

Instead of complaining go out and spend some money on roe supercharger and comeback, I bet your story will change very quick. Vipers with just exhaust are running 122mph in the 1/4. a litle more power and slicks and your in the 10's. If you want it the cheap way, exhaust, 150shot, slicks and skinies. With a good driver that's a 10second set up any day.
__________________________________________________


NO Roe Supercharger available yet, and the mods are coming, slicks and skinies are great but, to aggresive, tire wear, getting caught in the rain, a thumb tack may flatten them, breaking any stock drive line parts, handles terrible, etc.

You are sort of right about the quarter mile, but most races live far below that, on the street, and 1/8 mile tracks are popular in some area's.

Yes I'm off to mod city.

Skip

 

[SnakeEye]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Skip, that is simply not the case. We as SRT-10 owners DO stand a chance; in fact, we’ve got a big (think 505cubes) leg up. I happen to own a '02 Z06 with the LS6 engine and it just can't compete stock for stock -- and certainly the LS6 engine is superior to the LS1. This is not subjective, it's a plain fact. LS1's are the ones that don't stand the chance.

Comparing modded cars to stocks makes little sense ; in most all cases, it's obviously cheaper to mod a Mustang or Vette than a Viper. This is of no surprise, just the 'Viper tax' and how things work. What (multipurpose streetable) platform under $100K currently offered from a major manufacturer is better to mod than the SRT-10 for most any performance driven endeavor that one may have? None.

 

[VIPERnXr4ti]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

NO Roe Supercharger available yet, and the mods are coming, slicks and skinies are great but, to aggresive, tire wear, getting caught in the rain, a thumb tack may flatten them, breaking any stock drive line parts, handles terrible, etc.

You are sort of right about the quarter mile, but most races live far below that, on the street, and 1/8 mile tracks are popular in some area's.

Yes I'm off to mod city.

Skip

stock for stock the Viper eats anything GM currently offers...drag radials, or slicks, or cheater slicks are not stock...you say things about slicks and skinnies being too agressive, and you dont wanna break stock driveline parts...well thats why those cars can beat you...because they dont feel skinnies and slicks are too agressive, they break stock driveline parts(if they havnt upgraded them, and stock Fbody rear ends BLOW...they often upgrade to a FORD 9" rear) you complain that you may lose a 1/4 race to these guys but dont want to sacrifice the things that are allowing them to beat you...Fbodies handle like poop, and they have a huge lump in the passenger side floor! (thats pretty cool )....they are a car built to go down the drag strip...the Viper was not...you set a Viper up with some small 15" wheels with some DR's or slicks, raise the ride height a little, with some REAL soft springs in the rear and you may be surprized at what a stock Viper is REALLY capable of running....a lot of those "stock" fbodies use drag racer "tricks" like that to get those times...most Viper guys dont want to sacrifice, the handling and braking of their cars(and i dont think you guys should). You are truly comparing apples and oranges....set the Viper up for the strip like the Fbody truly is and you wont have the same feelings.


Anthony

 

[treynor]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

FWIW, when it comes to drag racing the major issues with the SRT are gearing and traction. This is easily enough addressed: Purner sells an 18x13" wheel combo which will fit on the back of an SRT with a couple tweaks, and 3.55 gearsets are available from JonB. With the Purner setup there's traction aplenty, and I'll be testing the gearing in the next month or so. I'm already in the 11.6s with stock gears...

 

[VIPER006]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

I have a good friend with a 94 Vette(LT-1, 6 speed). Very fast car. It usually beats what ever it races, of course he picks his races carefully. The car has ****** headers, full 3" mandrel bent piping to the back, new bottom end, heavily ported heads, Lingenfelter cam, Ram air set up, and dyno tuned computer. BTW, those are the important mods, there is a laundry list of others. Well. Lets just say 3 for 3 from third gear up my stock Viper leaves him. I mean leaves him. And the one try from second gear was actually embarrasing for him. He is too used to hooking and leaving people behind, but not with my Viper. And he has supposedly taken Vipers in the past. I wonder if he has video of that?
Anyway maybe the problem is in the driver. No disrespect intended of course, but it probably is the truth.

 

[Skip White]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Anthony, I'm not miscomparing anything, I'm aware the Viper is far superior to the other cars out there. This post is addressed to the SRT's out there that are in mostly stock form, mine included. And they don't have to run, slicks and skinnies, most run drag radials, and no one said you have to sacrifice all of the Viper handling, but some of it you do. I'ts not like the car will drive like a Lincoln Town car when mods are added. A few that are making replies to this post seem not to get the point, I think you should re-read it. I will say it again,

If we want to stay with the pack, lets get these cars running better. Every race I go to, I can't compete with the late model cars there, NO one cares that you lost because your car is in stock form, they wonder why you even own it if your not going to add some power to it. And if someone wants to keep there car stock that's great, just watch who you run. There are so many of these cars around here that want to run, but when I hear there exhaust and see the drag radials on the car, I allmost hate the challenge

The bottom line is that people expect a lot from the Viper, and if they can beat it, regardless of the so called drag racing tricks the victory goes to them in the real world. When I hange around the street racers, they can't waite to tell me how they heard the Viper got beat, and I tell them, well my car is pretty much stock. They aggree that it's not a comparision but in there unfare thought proccess, it's who passes who, street or track, all they know is there car is a 3500 lb. car loaded to the hilt, full of electronics that are hell to work with, and to them thats apples to apples. Of course when you do beat them there story is, well that's the fastest, greatest car ever built, and cost triple my car, but the Victory goes to the Viper.

I'm on my 8th Viper and have never seen the likes of these fast cars on the road today.

By the way the Vipe really is not far from being a great drag car, and still handle great.

The Viper does have a hell of an advantage over the others as it comes with around 200 more HP than most of the hot cars out there, so I do aggree there. Thank god we do have an edge to compensate for the triple price it takes to make it better.

Skip

 

[YouWish]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

No flame intended, just that the post seems..........well....pointless.
"A modded Vette can beat a stock Viper" "they all run drag radials"

My thoughts exactly. What a *** post. Stock for stock Viper wins everytime. Mod for mod Viper wins everytime. What's the point again???

 

[fluffy]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Fbodies handle like poop

They actually handle very well. If you take a look at the SCCA solo II national results for the past several years you will see that the stock f-bodies are near the head of the pack every year. It is a myth that f-bodies can't handle.

 

[fred]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Is it all about 0 to 60 or quarter mile times? How about the overall experiance. Ride, comfort, handling, looks both exterior and interior? quality of build. Fit and finish. And finally cost of ownership. Seems to me its the whole package that it important to most of us who do not feel the need to "beat" ALL the other guys out there. Truth of the matter is that there will always be someone faster than you. So what? Now if you really want to be the baddest boy on the block get yourself something with about 600HP and 2800lbs. Overall the Viper does its MISSION very well. You can mod it to death but can you than live with it in that form? For many owners the Viper is a tremendous car right out of the box even if it is not the fastest car on the block!

 

[viper585]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

I took care of the street thing with a simple "bolt-in",a 200+ shot of go juice.And the viper is one of the few cars out there that can handle that kind of power increase.So I still have the incredible overall "experience" of the car,and on the street,if I happen to encounter a modded vette or otherwise,its history.Now the strip is a different story,and I dont do enough of it to make the changes required to be the king of that venue.

 

[AG98RT10]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

Who cares what happens at the "Mullett Nationals."

I didn't see any F bodies at VIR last time I was there.

 

[MannyC]

Re: Viper vs LS1\'s, etc, WE DON\'T STAND A CHANCE

My SRT-10 is supposed to be delivered today. I can;t wait. If it feels slow, I can always take the GTS out and lay the 1,050 or so HP to the pavement and get the adrenaline rush I get everytime I floor this thing in 2nd gear! Woooooooooh!

Manny C.