Viper vs. Z06 1/4 mile time question

[Speedfreak]

"*** Wee", it is great that you are a business success but without being educated, it doesn't mean ****. Use some of your money to go to college and maybe you will stop embarrassing yourself with such horrific, sub-literate writing skills.

I happen to be a self-made millionare business owner as well with the addition of a double bachelor's degree from UCLA (one of the top 15 public universities in the country) and an MBA (that Master's Degree in Business) and Furman's english and grammar look fine to me. This is an internet forum not an english class. What bomb crater did you crawl out of?

I thought we were trying to evaluate the relative merits of two cars the Z06 and Viper in the 1/4 mile. I have had a spirited discussion with Jamie and others to that end but think the character assasinations don't belong here. Just ruins the atmosphere. I am just wondering what PhD level educational credentials you possess that have anointed you the grammer and english language expert here?

 

[Viper X]

This post represents an awful lot of time and energy arguing over which "road course car" is faster at the drag strip .....

 

[Speedfreak]

Sorry, but you miss the point. When someone posts that the Z06 is quicker in the 1/4 and uses your data to support it it is not a good comparison. That is why I asked how many tries, in comparable conditions, etc. And I did not say the declarations were from you. There is a band of vette merrymen jumping on the bandwagon the second you post the times using them as gospel.

A handful of tries on a mediocre day with a first time driver for the given car versus many, many runs including some in near perfect conditions for the other. It takes more than a few runs to learn the best launch and shifts and then to use them in the right conditions.

This is some of what I was trying to get at in analyzing the purported fast times for Zs. If we can't have reasonable assurance that the car is stock to begin with then all the rest goes out the window. Because what happens next is we see a fast time posted stating it is stock but the run conditions, trap speed, e.t. short time, etc. seem to fall outside the "bell curve" for lack of a better analogy of many of the other times posted.

 

[Speedfreak]

This post represents an awful lot of time and energy arguing over which "road course car" is faster at the drag strip .....

Good point! Apparently alot of us have to much time on our hands.

 

[JTOJR]

"*** Wee" Furman, you need to take some english language classes and learn a thing or two about grammar, punctuation and spelling. Your bombastic rants are littered with linguistic filth, the likes that indicate your lack of social standing. There isn't any valid debate here concerning which car makes more power. The Gen 4 Viper not only beats the Z06 (no contest) but betters the ZR1 as well. 1/4 mile runs can be so dependent on traction and other variables that performance cannot be fairly measured in such low scale competitions. In reality, there isn't any denying that the Viper produces more power. Now please, go get educated before you decide to criticize me with your sub-literacy.

I am not an educated man. I had to go to work to help feed my siblings. I am only a millionaire not multi, but still working on it, have a lot of years left. (God Willing) I think to bring education in to this really shows who you are. Ignorance about somethings is something they can help you with in school. (not all things) It is just terrible they can't teach people how not to be stupid. That is unfortunately something that you are born with. I hope it makes you feel better about yourself to talk about people especially when they may not have had a choice. I actually am glad I am not educated because I would of probably got a good job that would have paid well & I would have been able to retire in my early 50s instead of my late 40s. I am glad you are educated, it sounds like you needed it.

 

[Indiana]

The latest Z06 will run low 12's bone stock, stock tires and on a good day and perfect pass no driver errors. I don't know where you got that 10's information. that's a chevy pipe dream! The only way it would run 10's is maybe with drag radials and 150 shot of NOS and once you start with the NOS start looking for a replacement engine soon! The 2009 ZR1 with 133hp more runs mid 11's @ 127 mph granted it's a couple of hundred more pounds heavier than the standard Z06 The ET numbers for Gen 3 and Gen 4 vipers are neck and neck with the Z06 and ZR1 respectively in stock form. You can get crazy hp numbers out of a V10 while the vette motor is pretty much tapped out. So the moral of the story is go out to the track and when you want to compare ET's on two cars make sure your comparing apples to apples. And don't believe what anybody tells you! watch and listen, you can always tell who's stock and who's not!

Looks like you read Car and Driver.

NOS: The lsx cars can hold 150 wet shots for years if tuned for it. I know and I have never had to replace the motor in my Vette and it's a pump only car.

Tapped out LS7: Headers/cam/tune will get you 550 to the ground and with heads you can pin 600 rwhp. The 450ish rwhp that the ls7 puts down stock if far from tapped out. Toss a 75-100 wet shot on the car and your in business.

 

[Nine Ball]

How did this thread turn into a character bash? Come on Alex, play nice. Take your cars to the track and get us your results. That is all we really want to discuss.

As for education vs toys and money, I'd opt for the toys and money any day of the week. When I was managing restaurants during college, I used to hire several Masters grads as waiters. I put myself through college, got the engineering degree, and founded my own company that grew into multi-million worth. Honestly, I didn't need the degree to get where I am today. I wouldn't mind retiring by age 50 (36 now).

Tony

 

[xjrguy]

holy ****, who cares about net worth, ad hominem attacks, education or lack thereof and tunnel vision owners.

This isn't moneyline or romper room, nor is it Fun with Phonics or Writing is Fundamental.

Lets turn the "e-penis" off for a while and get back to cars.

 

[Speedfreak]

How did this thread turn into a character bash? Come on Alex, play nice. Take your cars to the track and get us your results. That is all we really want to discuss.

As for education vs toys and money, I'd opt for the toys and money any day of the week. When I was managing restaurants during college, I used to hire several Masters grads as waiters. I put myself through college, got the engineering degree, and founded my own company that grew into multi-million worth. Honestly, I didn't need the degree to get where I am today. I wouldn't mind retiring by age 50 (36 now).

Tony

I'll take the toys and money over the education too. Saves time! LOL. And speaking of going to the track and getting results, it looks like another 1 in 1000 day at the track this wednesday here in florida (high of 62 BUT LOW of 35 - yeah). Can't believe it. Probably the last day of potential record producting weather this year. I am going to go and pull out all the stops and see what this stock 06 can do. Bringing the cooler with the ice packs to cool down the manifold and going to forgo eating until after I race to cut weight. LOL. Stay tuned!

 

[1BADGTS]

This is some of what I was trying to get at in analyzing the purported fast times for Zs. If we can't have reasonable assurance that the car is stock to begin with then all the rest goes out the window. Because what happens next is we see a fast time posted stating it is stock but the run conditions, trap speed, e.t. short time, etc. seem to fall outside the "bell curve" for lack of a better analogy of many of the other times posted.

Speed ,alot of people CONTEST the results( is the car truely stock or modded) with these cars because they flat out dont realize just how much driver ability has to do with the final ET. Basically since THEY cant achieve the same results (nor can anyone at their home track can )those who can are using modded cars .Verifyed proof is obtained EASILY by just doing a little research BEFORE posting that it can not be done .

 

[viperv10]

10,seconds out of a stock Z06. LMFAO, Some clown told me how fast his ZO6 was, Untill I drove up with one badass 34 plymouth coupe told em lets go down the 1/4 mile one on one. Needless to say he took his anal hole back in his car and drove away. 9.8 sec coupe blowen 671 duel 600,s with nitrous.

 

[jamie furman]

How did this thread turn into a character bash? Come on Alex, play nice. Take your cars to the track and get us your results. That is all we really want to discuss.

As for education vs toys and money, I'd opt for the toys and money any day of the week. When I was managing restaurants during college, I used to hire several Masters grads as waiters. I put myself through college, got the engineering degree, and founded my own company that grew into multi-million worth. Honestly, I didn't need the degree to get where I am today. I wouldn't mind retiring by age 50 (36 now).

Tony

I have never met Alice or posted on one of his threads first, as a matter fact if he posts before I do, I don't! The guy trolls and follows me around because I haven't annointed the Viper (GOD) and makes personal attacks and then tries to make excuses for the attacks. I am sure no one cares what I make nor do I care to post it, but sometimes you have to defend an attack. If you notice he won't address the issues at hand and looks for a reason to start an argument or launch an attack as he has with you as well Tony in previous threads I have read and never has anything to add to a thread but negative comments. Alices lastest claim is my Viper bashing or Viper putting down which when asked what specifically negative I said the (Viper God Alice) can give no answer? The reason for no answer is there were no negative comments, but that doesn't matter he will ignore the question and continue the attacks and probably ruin another interesting thread as that is his MO!

 

[1BADGTS]

10,seconds out of a stock Z06. LMFAO, Some clown told me how fast his ZO6 was, Untill I drove up with one badass 34 plymouth coupe told em lets go down the 1/4 mile one on one. Needless to say he took his anal hole back in his car and drove away. 9.8 sec coupe blowen 671 duel 600,s with nitrous.

And WHAT does your post have to do with this thread .Do you own (and if so )do you race YOUR stock Viper against that same stock Z06 .

 

[1BADGTS]

I have never met Alice or posted on one of his threads first, as a matter fact if he posts before I do, I don't! The guy trolls and follows me around because I haven't annointed the Viper (GOD) and makes personal attacks and then tries to make excuses for the attacks. I am sure no one cares what I make nor do I care to post it, but sometimes you have to defend an attack. If you notice he won't address the issues at hand and looks for a reason to start an argument or launch an attack as he has with you as well Tony in previous threads I have read and never has anything to add to a thread but negative comments. Alices lastest claim is my Viper bashing or Viper putting down which when asked what specifically negative I said the (Viper God Alice) can give no answer? The reason for no answer is there were no negative comments, but that doesn't matter he will ignore the question and continue the attacks and probably ruin another interesting thread as that is his MO!

Thats exactly what happens.

 

[Nine Ball]

I have never met Alice or posted on one of his threads first, as a matter fact if he posts before I do, I don't! The guy trolls and follows me around because I haven't annointed the Viper (GOD) and makes personal attacks and then tries to make excuses for the attacks. I am sure no one cares what I make nor do I care to post it, but sometimes you have to defend an attack. If you notice he won't address the issues at hand and looks for a reason to start an argument or launch an attack as he has with you as well Tony in previous threads I have read and never has anything to add to a thread but negative comments. Alices lastest claim is my Viper bashing or Viper putting down which when asked what specifically negative I said the (Viper God Alice) can give no answer? The reason for no answer is there were no negative comments, but that doesn't matter he will ignore the question and continue the attacks and probably ruin another interesting thread as that is his MO!

The sad part is that we actually pay to be in this club, and they allow this nonsense to continue here. Being an Admin on multiple car sites, as well as a moderator on others, my ban button would have already been utilized. I don't think the VCA should allow any personal bashing, especially on a paid membership site.

Tony

 

[Snorman]

He's been banned on other forums as well. In fact, he's bragging on ViperForums about the "beating" he's giving Jamie on this forum.
You guys need to be nice to him, maybe he'll give you a deal on cleaning your carpets.
S.

 

[Alexarz]

He's been banned on other forums as well. In fact, he's bragging on ViperForums about the "beating" he's giving Jamie on this forum.
You guys need to be nice to him, maybe he'll give you a deal on cleaning your carpets.
S.

LOL. Looks like Richie the backstabber has been whispering in your ear, Snorman.

If you want to talk about cars, fine. The fact is that the Viper has more power than the Z06. You can deny it all you want but it is a fact. Another member made a good point that these are road course cars and talking about 1/4 mile performance is taking their purpose a bit out of context. All 1/4 mile drag racing represents is initial acceleration and nothing more. Both the Z06 and Viper are designed for so much more and any car can be built up to be faster than either of these in the 1/4 mile.

 

[kennyhemi]

Looks like you read Car and Driver.

NOS: The lsx cars can hold 150 wet shots for years if tuned for it. I know and I have never had to replace the motor in my Vette and it's a pump only car.

Tapped out LS7: Headers/cam/tune will get you 550 to the ground and with heads you can pin 600 rwhp. The 450ish rwhp that the ls7 puts down stock if far from tapped out. Toss a 75-100 wet shot on the car and your in business.

I don't read any mags, they are all full of s**t I get my numbers from being at the track and watching who's running what that day. The only mag that I somewhat believe in is natonal dragster their numbers don't lie!

 

[Speedfreak]

Speed ,alot of people CONTEST the results( is the car truely stock or modded) with these cars because they flat out dont realize just how much driver ability has to do with the final ET. Basically since THEY cant achieve the same results (nor can anyone at their home track can )those who can are using modded cars .Verifyed proof is obtained EASILY by just doing a little research BEFORE posting that it can not be done .

Again, I don't think this debate is entirely about whether it "can" be done. I think for the most part that isn't in dispute for the "exceptional" driver (at least not by me). But part of what is trying to be established here is what is the "bell curve" of typical results for both cars with average drivers and how far apart those results are. In my opinion, as stated previously, and backed up with the results of the "fast list" and various other methods of evaluation used before in this thread the average Z is an 11.5-11.7 car at 122 in stock trim with a 1.8-1.9 short time and average atmospherics. The 03-06 viper I think is an 11.9-12.1 car at 118-119 in the same conditions.

What you don't want to acknowledge is that when people mod the cars as APPEARS to be the case in some of the times based on very high traps speeds (which indicates alot of horsepower) and they state it is stock (but no one really has any idea whether it is or isn't) then it serves to create the impression that anyone who can get out of bed and drive a stick can turn low 11's or 10's in the car. That simply isn't true and that is what me, Twister, GR8 and others are trying to point out. When other racers go to the track and don't ever see the times you indicate that is prima facie evidence that the average Z is not a low 11- ten second car typically and that the average is much higher. Your answer to this is always there is proof to the contrary about the low times, but IT IS ALWAYS the same 3 exceptional drivers. These drivers do not represent the "bell curve" of typical results. And if someone mods the car and it is trapping 127 in 1000 ft. DA weather and then says it is stock it aint, but it just gets anonymously added to legend of the 10 second Z.

It is no different than me going to the track tomorrow night and blazing an 11.5 or 11.60 @ 123 in my stock 06 and then having this used as the average "bell curve" results for a stock viper. Yeah, I did it. No, I am not an average driver. Yeah the weather was exceptional and the average 06 viper is still 11.9-12.1. Then someone comes along and turns an 11.60 at 128 and says it is stock. Bull****. At 128 its a modded car and falls too far outside the established norms of performance for the car.

 

[Alexarz]

Speedfreak makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[big-n-italian]

i hope you all agree that the thread has been discussed fully, and with the personal attacks starting all over again, i think its time to bring this thread to a close.

thanks for your understanding.