Watch out for the new E15 gasoline.

[viperbilliam]

Corn is not optimal for alcohol fuels - it requires more energy to break the cellulose down in corn than other sources of biomass such as switchgrass (not sure I got that right). How is it better for the environment if you have to burn more of it? This isn't a tree hugger issue - it's the corn industry. We need to the get legislators out of their pockets. This issue is even worse for the smaller engined vehicles such as motorcycles which I have a few of.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Who could have ever thought that burning our fuel supply was smart?! We can thank GB for helping make this happen. Stupid is as stupid does....................................

 

[SRTfan]

"I get 20.1 miles to the gallon, in-town driving. I used to get 13," said Sue Cannon who drives 20 miles to Hake's from her home in Hanover, Pa.
Studies show straight gasoline gets 2 to 10 percent better gas mileage than fuel made with ethanol, an alcohol produced from corn. It costs about 20 cents more per gallon at the pump, but Cannon says paying more up front is worth it down the road. She started using "pure gas" five weeks ago, after paying $12,000 for repairs on her 2005 Nissan Pathfinder.
"I had to change two radiators and two transmissions," said Cannon, who blames the damage on ethanol.

​

So the people that support ethanol are the sheeple, right? Yet this woman supposedly gets 35% lower fuel efficiency by using a blend containing 10% of a fuel with a 20-30% lower LHV than gasoline? And this slightly cooler-burning fuel has ruined her radiator and transmission? I'm sorry, but claims like that make it hard to take the article seriously.

How is it better for the environment if you have to burn more of it?

The biggest difference I see would be that the carbon is coming out of the atmosphere to create the fuel, rather than being pulled from the ground.

 

[Grisoman]

I was never one to put mystery fuel additives in my tank, but last week I started using Startron based on tips from some its fairly loyal following among boaters who really have to worry about E10/E15 when no other option is available. Don't know if it works, but am trying it out.

 

[TractionControlOff]

This complies with planned obsolescence. If there's a way to get our cars to become problematic, we are more likely to buy new cars. It has nothing to do with the environment, which is why ethanol is pointless. If cars are being junked quicker, that's worse for the environment. I'll be sure to avoid the E-15 in all of my cars.

 

[johniew398]

We have E85 here, a gas/ethanol blend. I tried a tank full in my 2010 GMC Sierra and immediately noticed a drop of about 4 mpg. Some say they can tell the drop in horsepower. I couldn't detect the HP difference; but, it's not worth me burning it since it offsets it's lower cost.

 

[djviper]

Immediately following 9/11 I supported any fuel source that reduced dependency on the Middle East. Then I came to the realization that the U.S. and Great Britain researched, discovered and developed for them, their only worthwhile source of revenue and to this day they still cannot stick a pipe in the ground without western technology. So while they still continue to hoard their profits and have only recently made a few relatively meager charitable contributions to humanity around the world, I have a new policy. In short, it involves telling them how much oil they will produce, who they can sell it to and for how much. If they don't like those conditions they can sit in their gold plated Mercedes and pout.

I never understood those who are against using foreign oil. Why does it make any strategic sense to use your own natural resources when your potential enemies are willing to sell you there's at a good price?

 

[DrumrBoy]

I never understood those who are against using foreign oil. Why does it make any strategic sense to use your own natural resources when your potential enemies are willing to sell you there's at a good price?

Agreed. I think using foreign oil is best as long as we develop our supply to use in time of challenge. Keeps a few barrels away from China too!

 

[Grisoman]

While I agree that our domestic resources should be conserved for national security and our legacy to future generations, we are for better or worse a capitalist nation. If there is opportunity to sell our domestic resources overseas for profit, than that is what shareholders will demand. We are seeing that happen now with LNG export proposals.

 

[DrumrBoy]

That's actually the best of both. Buy from the middle east at a good price for domestic consumption while developing our sources, exporting for a good price now and keeping it later if the prices go the other way. Point is to develop our own so we're not in a situation like 1973 ever again! (Sad that I remember that.....)

 

[Bonkers]

I don not have a problem with blended fuel. I think the problem
is that we're forced to use it in some states. If you think E30 is
the solution and are willing to risk damaging your car for... then
by all means...

 

[Lawrenzo]

And now this-

June 25, 2013 - 7:26 am ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The U.S. Supreme Court rejected a challenge by automakers and oil producers to sales of a higher blend of ethanol allowed by the Environmental Protection Agency.
The justices on Monday let stand a federal appeals court ruling that said trade groups representing the industries lacked legal standing to press their challenges.
The appeals court earlier had said the challengers hadn’t shown their members would be injured by the rules.
The U.S. ethanol industry, which mostly makes fuel from corn, has pushed for E15, which contains 15 percent ethanol versus the traditional blend containing 10 percent.
It celebrated when the EPA in 2011 expanded use of E15 to cars built since the 2001 model year, which now comprise about two-thirds of the cars on the road in the United States.
The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers was among the groups asking the court to overturn a lower-court decision upholding sales of the higher blend. Some automakers won't cover damage to vehicles fueled with E-15. And AAA has warned that most drivers don't know what E-15 is, and many inadvertently use it in cars not designed to handle the fuel.
The EPA's move also angered the American Petroleum Institute, the Grocery Manufacturers Association and other industry groups that also asekd the higher court to overturn the lower court's decision.
Ethanol can cut into the profits of gasoline producers, while food groups complain that ethanol use can raise grain and meat prices. They blame ethanol for helping to push corn prices to record levels during last year's drought, the worst in more than 50 years.
During the drought, ethanol opponents petitioned the EPA to temporarily waive the ethanol mandate. The food and refinery groups also petitioned the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit to overturn its earlier decision allowing E15. They lost on both counts and petitioned the Supreme Court over the lower court's decision.
Monday's decision disappointed the oil refining industry which has also complained E15 can damage engines in boats, outdoor equipment, and older cars.
"The Supreme Court's decision denies the petitioners their day in court and will have negative repercussions for consumers," said Charles Drevna, the president of the American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers industry group.
Ethanol groups applauded the rejection of the challenge. The decision clears the way for more fuel options for U.S. drivers, said Jeff Lautt, the CEO of POET, one of the world's largest ethanol producers. "We think drivers deserve reliable choices at the pump," he said.
Automotive News and Bloomberg contributed to this report.


Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130625/RETAIL05/130629941#ixzz2XF7sD7v5
Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook

 

[Lawrenzo]

SEMA to the rescue- I guess my dream of owning a 1964.5 Ford Galaxy fastback with a full tilt dual quad 427 one day lives on! http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/...ill-hobbles-e15-ethanol-expansion/?refer=news

 

[ohlarikd]

Interesting read here that started years ago. I have a Ram 2500 that gets 9 mpg and a Viper that gets maybe 13. I love my gas hogging vehicles, but to try and reduce some dependency on oil in general (wherever its sourced), I am leasing an Electric Focus to commute. A Tesla would be nice, but too much money at this point. I am not a tree hugger, so I don't care really about carbon footprint - I just want demand to drop and prices to drop on gas. Will it ever happen? Maybe not, with Ethanol, oil company profits, more taxes... but the one thing in my control is to reduce demand.

I need to search for gas stations with less Ethanol, I never really thought about it until now.

 

[SRTfan]

We have E85 here, a gas/ethanol blend. I tried a tank full in my 2010 GMC Sierra and immediately noticed a drop of about 4 mpg. Some say they can tell the drop in horsepower. I couldn't detect the HP difference; but, it's not worth me burning it since it offsets it's lower cost.

It's not to surprising to me that people "feel" a power loss with E85, but I'd guess it's the people that already have preconceived notions about ethanol. Confirmation bias is rampant. In reality, many flex fuel vehicles are actually able to advance spark timing due to the higher "octane" of the alcohol and have higher power and torque ratings when running E85. That said, the poorer mileage will likely offset any cost benefit unless you're running an engine designed for the higher alcohol content. It's certainly possible to design an engine with higher thermal efficiency (and higher power density) using E85, but you'd lose the ability to run on pump gas.

Interesting read here that started years ago. I have a Ram 2500 that gets 9 mpg and a Viper that gets maybe 13. I love my gas hogging vehicles, but to try and reduce some dependency on oil in general (wherever its sourced), I am leasing an Electric Focus to commute. A Tesla would be nice, but too much money at this point. I am not a tree hugger, so I don't care really about carbon footprint - I just want demand to drop and prices to drop on gas. Will it ever happen? Maybe not, with Ethanol, oil company profits, more taxes... but the one thing in my control is to reduce demand.

I need to search for gas stations with less Ethanol, I never really thought about it until now.

Why do you need to search for gas stations with less ethanol when your goal is to reduce demand for oil? Sure, the anti-ethanol crowd will spew their BS about how ethanol "takes more energy to produce than it creates", but if you actually look at the net energy ratio for ethanol production, it's over 1 (somewhere between 1.3 and 2, depending on who does the study).

 

[ohlarikd]

Why do you need to search for gas stations with less ethanol when your goal is to reduce demand for oil? Sure, the anti-ethanol crowd will spew their BS about how ethanol "takes more energy to produce than it creates", but if you actually look at the net energy ratio for ethanol production, it's over 1 (somewhere between 1.3 and 2, depending on who does the study).

Sorry, I meant that as two unrelated topics - electric cars and ethanol. Searching for gas stations with less ethanol was purely about not potentially harming my Viper engine than anything else. The electric car thing is about reducing demand for oil, which theoretically should lower prices - but we know the oil companies are obviously concerned about profits and will find some way to raise prices...

And before anyone mentions that electricity comes from burning coal, etc., understood. Its not an environmental purchase, just trying to help reduce oil demand, although my one little purchase will have zero effect on anything in reality. Its a fun little car to drive though anyway and the lease cost is less than my monthly Ram 2500 gas bill.

 

[PeterMJ]

Corn is not optimal for alcohol fuels - it requires more energy to break the cellulose down in corn than other sources of biomass such as switchgrass (not sure I got that right). How is it better for the environment if you have to burn more of it? This isn't a tree hugger issue - it's the corn industry. We need to the get legislators out of their pockets. This issue is even worse for the smaller engined vehicles such as motorcycles which I have a few of.

Corn based ethanol is a political issue, ironically enough, coming from the same idiots responsible for MTBE fiasco. Any complaints should be sent directly to US senator Dianne Feinstein