Water/**** systems

[BOTTLEFED]

There is not a lot of info on here about w/m even though many people claim to use it. I just want to know what you guys are using and how you have them setup.

I would also like to discuss tuning, specifically timing advance, but I might start another thread in the tuning section for that.

 

[Red Snake]

I have been using it for about a year. A lot of people who don't actually use it think its hard to fill the tank or something. There is nothing to it. Mine is professionally tuned by PBJ and it lasts a really long time. I went almost the whole summer without having to refill my 2 gallon tank. It cools the intake charge extremely well. If you place you hand on the intake when the car is pulling on the dyno you can actually feel the intake tube get cold when the w/m sprays.

It's an excellent alternative to an intercooler. There are plenty of big hp, high dollar builds using it. I think that says it all.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Can you post any pics?
What brand of kit is it? custom?
Do you know the details of it, like progressive setup, nozzle size, safety devices, etc.?
Do you know what boost/rpm it comes in at?
Is it tuned for intercooling or is it for extra power/fuel?
What pulley are you running? mods?
Do you have dyno #s?

sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to get as much info on AI for Vipers as I can

thanks,
Tim

 

[Red Snake]

I don't know the technical specs but I bought the Roe kit from JMB Performance. PBJ (Joe Donovan) tuned it for both power and intercooling effect.

I am running 10 pounds of boost on the Roe S/C. I made 660 rwhp and 710 rwtrq on a humid day that was 102 degrees F in the shop.


My car also has T&D rockers, 70mm throttle bodies, smooth tubes, K&N filters, belanger headers, no cats, Corsa track exhaust. Stock motor, stock heads, stock cam.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Thanks,
your mods are very similar to mine, but I'll only be on a 6.5# pulley when I get my w/m installed.

I think you answered most of my questions actually
brand of kit: Roe
nozzle size: 325cc (according to Roe site)
safe/control devices: VEC
tuning: power and intercooling
mods: Roe s/c 10#, T&D rockers, 70mm throttle bodies, smooth tubes, K&N filters, belanger headers, no cats, Corsa track exhaust. Stock motor, stock heads, stock cam.
dyno#s: 660 rwhp and 710 rwtrq


thanks

 

[plumcrazy]

just be careful with the install of the hoses and i know you will.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

OK, well I'll go ahead and put my ideas up for a custom setup on here for discussion as well.
I'm going with Coolingmist parts because they are a supporter of another site I frequent and they have a great reputation on there. They also have some of the best prices and most helpful service.

Here is a list of parts I have on order right now to start with:
Shurflo High pressure methanol compatible black pump(Coolingmist upgraded)
Checkvalve
10 Feet of black high pressure hose
quick disconnect tee and quick disconnect fittings
2 outside thread injectors and housing - 325cc
2qt tank with low level float switch
Status monitor and Clog detector

I'm still deciding whether to use the washer fluid tank or not. It looks small but it would make for a nice clean install. I don't have much room in the trunk because the n2o bottles are still mounted in there.
I will be running it with the VEC3. I'm thinking of having it come on around 3psi.

I'll post pics of my progress.
What do yo guys think?

 

[Red Snake]

Just an fyi on the size of tank. The 2 gallon tank that I got with the Roe kit is made such that it tucks under the side (right side in my case) so that only the filler hole sticks out. So it really doesnt take up much (if any) of the usable space in the trunk.

As I mentioned before, that 2 gallon tank lasts forever.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

That's good to know. I was wondering where a 2gal. tank would fit.
I am kind of afraid that the 2qt will run out between fillups. I don't mind filling it more often but I don't want to be out on a drive and run out. I'll carry a gallon jug to fill it on longer trips, just in case.

 

[Red Snake]

That's good to know. I was wondering where a 2gal. tank would fit.
I am kind of afraid that the 2qt will run out between fillups. I don't mind filling it more often but I don't want to be out on a drive and run out. I'll carry a gallon jug to fill it on longer trips, just in case.

Even with the 2 qt you should be fine for trips. When properly tuned it really doesn't use that much. It only sprays when go WOT. As I said before, I put my foot in mine quite often and I used a little over a gallon this whole spring and summer.

You can also create a VEC card with no spray, and if you run out of w/m accidentally (NOT LIKELY), all you have to do is load the no w/m card and you are good.

 

[Burntrubber]

I use it! my check vavle went to crap about a month ago and I started using alot of w/m...ordered one from Devilsown??? i think the name was. just undid the hosing and put her back together saturday night. works well, I agree with everything redsnake said. mine sprays whe I go into boost just because of only having 91 octane and living here in PHX.
RedSRT007 tuned mine, he had his with a 12# pulley for quite some time and is running w/m on his TT now!

 

[Burntrubber]

i know if i am out by glancing at my a/f gauge. but i always check the tank before i drive it!

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Even with the 2 qt you should be fine for trips. When properly tuned it really doesn't use that much. It only sprays when go WOT. As I said before, I put my foot in mine quite often and I used a little over a gallon this whole spring and summer.

You can also create a VEC card with no spray, and if you run out of w/m accidentally (NOT LIKELY), all you have to do is load the no w/m card and you are good.

that's good to know
I'm pretty good about keeping an eye on these kinds of things and with the low-level sensor I should be safe.

great idea on the VEC card!
I'll just keep my current tune on a card in my car so that if I run out, I'll know I can still run some boost without breaking. I might be a little worried though since I'm on cast pistons and running a 6.5# pulley.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

I use it! my check vavle went to crap about a month ago and I started using alot of w/m...ordered one from Devilsown??? i think the name was. just undid the hosing and put her back together saturday night. works well, I agree with everything redsnake said. mine sprays whe I go into boost just because of only having 91 octane and living here in PHX.
RedSRT007 tuned mine, he had his with a 12# pulley for quite some time and is running w/m on his TT now!

yeah we are only on 91 here in ID too

Devilsown is a great company. Very competitive prices.
Burnt, would you mind posting some info on your setup as well?

 

[Burntrubber]

I basically have the Roe set-up. I think a cost effective way to do it would be. Or contact JMB Justin about his prices. You could probably piece the kit together between Roe, Home Depot, and Devilsown. I have the same mods basically (except 1.7RR). My tank is on the passenger side in the trunk, drill and bolted it down and has a velcro strap to hold it in place. the pump motor is in the wheel well and I ran the tubing down the frame. just behind the engine is where my check valve is, then from there is slpits off and goes into the air inlet tubes just before they bend behind the S/C. I can takes pics of the inlet and tank for you tonight, if you want to see where I mounted the motor then I can jack it up this weekend and take off the tire to get a pic. if you want pics PM me your email. for some reason they are too large to post on the board.

 

[Burntrubber]

that's good to know
I'm pretty good about keeping an eye on these kinds of things and with the low-level sensor I should be safe.

great idea on the VEC card!
I'll just keep my current tune on a card in my car so that if I run out, I'll know I can still run some boost without breaking. I might be a little worried though since I'm on cast pistons and running a 6.5# pulley.

depending on how much ou drive it aonther option would be to skip the w/m kit and just run 100 octane to stave off any detonation. Tim (RedSnake) is also right the w/m cools the intake dramatically. also some guys wire the green light into the dash or ac duct in the cabin...to let you know when its spraying, but I just look at my a/f. I also mounted the test button for the pump motor to the back of the frame, so if I want to test it I just have my wife look and the wideband when idleing, and hit the buttton, lets me know if its clogged!

 

[Knight Viper]

Just a side note, if you didn't already know: When I was running a 6.5# pulley with water/**** I was producing 11#s of boost when spraying. I would have to look at my Vec III logs to remember what % of voltage was going to the pump but I believe you'll love the setup. I also thought about using the windshield washer bottle but ended up going with the 2 gal tank in the trunk

 

[SquadX]

Sorry to highjack the thread but is there any benefit to running W/M with a non FI car?

Also what are the downsides excluding running out of w/m. Does the spray slowly cause some kind of build up in the engine over time.
Does it just spray and evaporate? I am not familar with w/m so any insight to neg. effects are appreciated.

Knight viper, who in MD/VA did you have install yours or did you do it yourself?

 

[Burntrubber]

Sorry to highjack the thread but is there any benefit to running W/M with a non FI car?

Also what are the downsides excluding running out of w/m. Does the spray slowly cause some kind of build up in the engine over time.
Does it just spray and evaporate? I am not familar with w/m so any insight to neg. effects are appreciated.

Knight viper, who in MD/VA did you have install yours or did you do it yourself?

quick answers, get blown then get ****. downside is engine goes boom if your running it aggresive and you are in boost, it evaporates very quickly. did it myself.

on a N/A engine you would IMO have to have such a build and tuned so aggresive for it to make it worth the benefit of having it. you would be better off with NOS, like a 25 shot

 

[Knight Viper]

The alcohol is helping to cool the intake air making a denser mixture, I run VP M1 methanol and distilled water 50/50 so if anything it would be cleaning and not creating a build up
and I did the blower and water/**** install myself...Roe Racing instructions and support is top notch

 

[plumcrazy]

a tuner i know and trust prefers straight water. i asked him abut doing it last winter and thats what i was told.

a lot less to worry about that way too i guess. no mixing or consistency issues which would bother me.

 

[Burntrubber]

a tuner i know and trust prefers straight water. i asked him abut doing it last winter and thats what i was told.

a lot less to worry about that way too i guess. no mixing or consistency issues which would bother me.

if you could run straight water then what would be the worry? Just wondering, I think it would only affect the tune right? Thats all I could seenot disagreeing, becasue it would be alot easier to run water only?

 

[plumcrazy]

yes, i think its just the tune.

i know a lot of older musclecars ran plain water only.

call doug if you want, im sure he'd talk to you and maybe even save you some cash on the setup.

 

[Burntrubber]

yes, i think its just the tune.

i know a lot of older musclecars ran plain water only.

call doug if you want, im sure he'd talk to you and maybe even save you some cash on the setup.

thanks! Enjoy the weather up there. man that giants game looked coldI grew up in NNJ, telling you right now that you would love the roads out here...wide open is an understatement...imagine Rt287 with no one on it
it would suit that paxton top end well

 

[SquadX]

So, and I hope I understand this correct (as stated above). A 6.5 lb roe using w/m resulted in 11 lb of boost. As I take this, the w/m resulted in his 6.5 roe almost doubling resulting in 11 lb? Would a 10lb result in nearly doubling results as well?

 

[Burntrubber]

So, and I hope I understand this correct (as stated above). A 6.5 lb roe using w/m resulted in 11 lb of boost. As I take this, the w/m resulted in his 6.5 roe almost doubling resulting in 11 lb? Would a 10lb result in nearly doubling results as well?

No, it there are many outside factors...for instances in san diego my buddy gets 12-13#s of boost with a 10#. in phx my 5# gets me about 6.5#s of boost in 4th gear, but only 5#s in 2nd, running w/m 50/50. maybe it just has more time to develop more boost

 

[BOTTLEFED]

I basically have the Roe set-up. I think a cost effective way to do it would be. Or contact JMB Justin about his prices. You could probably piece the kit together between Roe, Home Depot, and Devilsown. I have the same mods basically (except 1.7RR). My tank is on the passenger side in the trunk, drill and bolted it down and has a velcro strap to hold it in place. the pump motor is in the wheel well and I ran the tubing down the frame. just behind the engine is where my check valve is, then from there is slpits off and goes into the air inlet tubes just before they bend behind the S/C. I can takes pics of the inlet and tank for you tonight, if you want to see where I mounted the motor then I can jack it up this weekend and take off the tire to get a pic. if you want pics PM me your email. for some reason they are too large to post on the board.

Sounds like a great setup. I like the idea of the velcro straps, I may have to use that

Yes, I'm piecing my custom kit together. I think there is enough info out there to know what parts you need. That is why I wanted to start this thread - to help someone who wants to make a custom kit and tune it themselves.

Please post any pics you have. Or you can send them to me and I'll post them. I would love to see how and where you mounted your pump.
thanks for sharing

 

[BOTTLEFED]

a tuner i know and trust prefers straight water. i asked him abut doing it last winter and thats what i was told.

a lot less to worry about that way too i guess. no mixing or consistency issues which would bother me.

Phil, there is a huge debate about mixtures vs straight water vs straight ****.
I all comes down to the purpose of the car and what you want the auxiliary injection (AI) to do. Water is a great anti-detonation device and has superior cooling properties. **** is a high octane fuel. You decide what you need.

One problem with running water only in some areas of the country is freezing. I know most Viper owners don't drive in the snow, but if you have the car in your garage and it gets below freezing, leaks will quickly spring up. Just something to think about.

 

[plumcrazy]

i just never liked the cheesy water lines on some setups. and the mixing of the **** is BS.

its gotta be hard to get the same percentage everytime. id think that that would make a difference in the tune and at times be more likely to detonate. just my opinion

 

[Burntrubber]

I pour in a gallon of distilled water, then pour the **** into that water bottle and then into the jug in my tank. so i know its a gallon and a gallon.
quick tip...take one of the gallon jugs and cut the bottom off, I use that as my funnel so I dont have to take the jug out of my trunk (disconnect it) and its cheaper that buying a funnel!

I still agree with Plum in saying that I wish there were a better way than running hoses all over your car.