SoCal Rebell
Enthusiast
In order: 1,2,3,4,5
Todd when ya gonna come out to the track and stop talking about it
?
Todd when ya gonna come out to the track and stop talking about it
What are the biggest factors on the race course--survey, racers please rank.
- Thread starter SoCal Rebell
- Start date
toddt
Enthusiast
I'm still in my research phase.
SoCal Rebell
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
I'm still in my research phase.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Come out I'll teach ya, where's Crow Canyon Road in Cali????????
I'm still in my research phase.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Come out I'll teach ya, where's Crow Canyon Road in Cali????????
toddt
Enthusiast
Please rank the following factors on the race course:
1)Driver skill among the top ten drivers on the course that day (discounting backmarkers)
2)Tires
3)Suspension setup
4)Brakes
5)Power
Which one do you think is most significant at the finish line? Which is the least?
1)Driver skill among the top ten drivers on the course that day (discounting backmarkers)
2)Tires
3)Suspension setup
4)Brakes
5)Power
Which one do you think is most significant at the finish line? Which is the least?
Frank Parise
VCA Venom Member
(1)Driver-this is worth more than all the rest of the items combined-you can improve lap times 20 seconds or more within one weekend (2)Tires-new Goodyear slicks are worth as much as 2-3 seconds over a new Hoosier..the Hoosier is worth 2-3 seconds over a Pilot (3)Power to weight ratio - weight is more important than power...take an 8-pound reduction in weight rather than an increase of 1-horsepower every time (4)Brakes-only because the stock Viper brakes **** on the track (5)Alignment - I can set up Mumford's car so anybody will beat him (6)Shocks/springs
(7)Bushings (8)Aero - once you use a good rear wing, you'll never race without one again.
(7)Bushings (8)Aero - once you use a good rear wing, you'll never race without one again.
ACR Larry
Enthusiast
Ron, Are you going to Willow Springs on the 12th? I could use some more of your guidance on the track.
Larry
Larry
toddt
Enthusiast
Ron et. al--
I'm in NorCal, unfortuately, so I can't gain the benefit of your experience. I'm researching what goes into prepping the car and driver right now--I'd love to go to Laguna Seca, but probably should go to Sears Point to run the car my first time, as Laguna is such a tough technical course.
Pretty much the only thing I'm now planning on doing is putting in the 4-wheel stoptech brake system in advance of the race. I really want to find an autocross near my house for my first experience.
I'm in NorCal, unfortuately, so I can't gain the benefit of your experience. I'm researching what goes into prepping the car and driver right now--I'd love to go to Laguna Seca, but probably should go to Sears Point to run the car my first time, as Laguna is such a tough technical course.
Pretty much the only thing I'm now planning on doing is putting in the 4-wheel stoptech brake system in advance of the race. I really want to find an autocross near my house for my first experience.
luc
Enthusiast
Toddt,
Laguna Secca is LESS technical than Sears Point but more importantly,it is a SAFER track.
Not as safe than Buttonwillow or Thunderhill but still safer than Sears.
Luc.00GTS
Laguna Secca is LESS technical than Sears Point but more importantly,it is a SAFER track.
Not as safe than Buttonwillow or Thunderhill but still safer than Sears.
Luc.00GTS
Tom and Vipers
Enthusiast
...not that I know anything...
But there are probably different rankings depending on skill level.
I would think for a highly skilled driver, brakes would be more important than tires. (One thing is for use, a skilled driver cannot use the stock brakes anyway near how he'd like to.)
So do you baby the brakes and gain from slicks, or
baby the tires and gain from braking?
One thing is for use, the slow parts of the track dominate the lap time.
So if time in the corners is greater than time braking, then tires would be more important.
Actually, that is probably the case.
I think I answered my own question.
=============================================
One thing that struck me big time at the few track events I went to was that power/weight had the least impact on the experience. The experience is setting up and doing the corners. What impresses here is race suspension and race tires.
...and weight! Weight *****, period. Compare karts and cars. There is no comparison.
...which leads to the Caterham R500, the latest incarnation of the Lotus Seven: 1068 lbs, 230 HP, 0-60 3.4sec, 150 mph top speed ...actually weighs less than an F1 car
But there are probably different rankings depending on skill level.
I would think for a highly skilled driver, brakes would be more important than tires. (One thing is for use, a skilled driver cannot use the stock brakes anyway near how he'd like to.)
So do you baby the brakes and gain from slicks, or
baby the tires and gain from braking?
One thing is for use, the slow parts of the track dominate the lap time.
So if time in the corners is greater than time braking, then tires would be more important.
Actually, that is probably the case.
I think I answered my own question.
=============================================
One thing that struck me big time at the few track events I went to was that power/weight had the least impact on the experience. The experience is setting up and doing the corners. What impresses here is race suspension and race tires.
...and weight! Weight *****, period. Compare karts and cars. There is no comparison.
...which leads to the Caterham R500, the latest incarnation of the Lotus Seven: 1068 lbs, 230 HP, 0-60 3.4sec, 150 mph top speed ...actually weighs less than an F1 car
Mike H
Enthusiast
Well Skill is always a factor of seat time, so with that being equal, a well balanced suspension setup and correct tires and temps being part of that would be next. Having lots of power and a lousy setup will make you slow out of the corners. Having a car that pushes into a corner entry will scrub off time out of the corner increasing lap times. Weight over power definitely. If I could get 500 lbs out of the Viper that would drop lap time dramatically.
FrankBarba
Enthusiast
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i agree with all of you. each is important. but you have forgot about 1 of the biggest factors. CREW. Believe it or not a crew will make you faster. A well put together crew with you overseeing will definately make you go faster and be more confident. If you don't believe me try it both ways. Work on your car at the track all weekend, race on sunday, then next time bring a crew with you. see what happens.
SoCal Rebell
Enthusiast
The most important thing is seat time, seat time, seat time. From 5/11 to 6/12 I'll have 12 track days in 32 days. I did 30 track days on street tires to learn how to drive and then graduated to better brakes and Hoosiers.
ACR_Autopia, I'll be at the WSIR event on 6/12 but you would be better served to have SSpeed Racer (John Dearing) instruct you as he is an instructor for the day and is sick fast on street tires. BTW did you ever change that front tire back to a Michelin????
toddt, Luc is right (and believe my he knows MUCH more then me), Sears Point has ALOT of walls to hit. You would be better off with 1-Thunderhill, an easy course with lots of runoff or 2-Buttonwillow, a little more challenging but lots of fun and again lots of runoff. My .02
ACR_Autopia, I'll be at the WSIR event on 6/12 but you would be better served to have SSpeed Racer (John Dearing) instruct you as he is an instructor for the day and is sick fast on street tires. BTW did you ever change that front tire back to a Michelin????
toddt, Luc is right (and believe my he knows MUCH more then me), Sears Point has ALOT of walls to hit. You would be better off with 1-Thunderhill, an easy course with lots of runoff or 2-Buttonwillow, a little more challenging but lots of fun and again lots of runoff. My .02
toddt
Enthusiast
Okay...very good. Ha! I just assumed that Laguna was the most technical course possible from my GT3 experience. Since GT3 doesn't have sears point....
So sears is MORE technical...yikes. I will stay far away.
I like the idea of lots of runoff!
Okay, time to look up thunderhill...
So sears is MORE technical...yikes. I will stay far away.
I like the idea of lots of runoff!
Okay, time to look up thunderhill...
toddt
Enthusiast
Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, both too far.
I guess I'm "stuck with" Laguna.
I guess I'm "stuck with" Laguna.
Fast Freddy
Enthusiast
it's all about heat management. got to dissipate the heat generated from the road racing environment. upgrade brakes and engine cooling system. reliability is very immportant. 700 h.p. won't do you any good, if you can't get you car started or finish the race. smooth=fast !!! learn how to be consistent (tire management). find that ragged edge and milk it for all it's worth. learn how to late brake and trail brake (makes for great block passing). find a rythm and a routine. preperation is the key. incredible as it may seem in the end the least important thing is engine power. drag racing on the other hand is a different story. race is won or lost on the starting line. its all about hooking up major horsepower (60 ft. times). but all forms of motorsports require dedication, determination, focus, patience, will and timing. a little bit of luck comes in handy every now and then. half the battle is just finishing. the real race is always in the pits i have found. if things go bad in the pit. they always go bad on the track and vice versa. run you own race and your oppenent will usually take himself out. let your competitors make all the mistakes. go with proven technology. what works and has been tested. for every step you take to increase your speed or power. take 2 steps forward to dissipate heat and make things more reliable.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, both too far.
I guess I'm "stuck with" Laguna.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not gonna work Todd. I just came back from a 1400 mile one-way trip to Iowa. Track that sucka!!!
Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, both too far.
I guess I'm "stuck with" Laguna.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not gonna work Todd. I just came back from a 1400 mile one-way trip to Iowa. Track that sucka!!!
Serious Eric
Enthusiast
1)Driver skill.
2)Suspension setup
3)Tires
4)Brakes
5)Power
#s 2, 3 and 4 are VERY close together, BTW, and could arguably change relative positions depending on the type of course. So more appropriately I would describe it this way:
1.) Driver skill.
.
. (big gap)
.
2) Setup,brakes & tires
.
. (big gap)
.
3) Power.
And the drag-racers often say they don't want to get into road racing cuz it's sooooo expensive. I find that not to be the case. Look at the above list and think about what the top factors cost.
Driver? Hell that's just trivial entry fees to your local DE events ... ain't nuthin.
Brakes? You don't need a $6000 setup, just good pads (couple hundred bucks), a decent synthetic fluid changed frequently and some air ducting (not much $$).
Setup? Best bang for the buck is get your stock viper track aligned with some good neg camber and proper toe specs ($250). Lowered, shocks and custom spring rates only necessary for the quite serious and advanced types (couple grand).
Tires? Hell Kumho makes some REAL nice stuff for about $700 for a set of four.
Power? That's where the money is and it's the least important item. You've already got enough.
I follow the Dean Word philosophy: Spend your money on brakes tires and seat time and you'll be faster than the other guy, break less often and you'll have a blast.
2)Suspension setup
3)Tires
4)Brakes
5)Power
#s 2, 3 and 4 are VERY close together, BTW, and could arguably change relative positions depending on the type of course. So more appropriately I would describe it this way:
1.) Driver skill.
.
. (big gap)
.
2) Setup,brakes & tires
.
. (big gap)
.
3) Power.
And the drag-racers often say they don't want to get into road racing cuz it's sooooo expensive. I find that not to be the case. Look at the above list and think about what the top factors cost.
Driver? Hell that's just trivial entry fees to your local DE events ... ain't nuthin.
Brakes? You don't need a $6000 setup, just good pads (couple hundred bucks), a decent synthetic fluid changed frequently and some air ducting (not much $$).
Setup? Best bang for the buck is get your stock viper track aligned with some good neg camber and proper toe specs ($250). Lowered, shocks and custom spring rates only necessary for the quite serious and advanced types (couple grand).
Tires? Hell Kumho makes some REAL nice stuff for about $700 for a set of four.
Power? That's where the money is and it's the least important item. You've already got enough.
I follow the Dean Word philosophy: Spend your money on brakes tires and seat time and you'll be faster than the other guy, break less often and you'll have a blast.
Serious Eric
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom and Vipers:
I would think for a highly skilled driver, brakes would be more important than tires. (One thing is for use, a skilled driver cannot use the stock brakes anyway near how he'd like to.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tires before brakes. Best brakes in the world can only stop you as fast as the friction potential of the tires allows. Best tires in the world can still be threshold braked by even sh*tty viper brakes (assuming they haven't faded into oblivion
) Brake improvements are really for longevity more than stopping power. Stopping power is in the tires.
I would think for a highly skilled driver, brakes would be more important than tires. (One thing is for use, a skilled driver cannot use the stock brakes anyway near how he'd like to.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tires before brakes. Best brakes in the world can only stop you as fast as the friction potential of the tires allows. Best tires in the world can still be threshold braked by even sh*tty viper brakes (assuming they haven't faded into oblivion
pdmracing
Enthusiast
Your BRAIN! You are the most important, I am truly amazed at how many guys are ready to spend thousands for more horsepower but spend nothing on driver training. For an new track driver I would start with a good drivers school, upgraded & full maintained brakes & a set of DOT race tires, then drive it till you get sick! Who knows, track driving might not be for you. If your happy just putting around why spend more $$ on mods you might not need. The viper is infinitely more capable out of the box than most drivers can handle. The tires & brake upgrades will keep you from trashing your street wear & a GOOD driving school will give you the capability to really enjoy what you have.
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