The thing that escapes me is the absolute need that Gen II owners seem to have to come over here and dis the Gen III. If you want to dis it do it in the Gen I/II forum. This forum is reserved for Gen III. And in a gesture we will refrain from posting negatives about the Gen I/II on the Gen I/II forum. Don't think for a moment that most of us who owned a Gen I and/or II don't know some significant weaknesses but to date do not feel compelled to dis them at every opportunity.
What is the problem with Gen I and II Vipers??
- Thread starter dirk989
- Start date
SilverSnake
Viper Owner
Viper SRT,
I agree with you 100%. I think this is a way for them to vent that there gts isn't the newest kid on the block anymore. Three years ago i bought a e39 m5 and join a quality forum like ours, but the guy's with the older e34 m5 would come over and do the same [******]. Untill all the e39 guys stop being quite and started speaking up. maybe that would help.
Robert
I agree with you 100%. I think this is a way for them to vent that there gts isn't the newest kid on the block anymore. Three years ago i bought a e39 m5 and join a quality forum like ours, but the guy's with the older e34 m5 would come over and do the same [******]. Untill all the e39 guys stop being quite and started speaking up. maybe that would help.
Robert
Is that all you come up with rookie? Man my 9 year old son can come up with a better reply than what you did. If my Vipers custom paint job was such a joke why would the editors at Viper magazine want to put it in there magazine? You need to stop posting your really making yourself look dumber by each post.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
Knock yourself out and go post it. You really sound like an insecure little baby.
"waaaah one nation... UNDER RIDING DC'S [*****]"
Mods: Craig, lets loose the vulgarities please, completely unnecessary and not pertinent to the topic......
SilverSnake
Viper Owner
If it's so custom were is all the pearl in that flat blue paint or stripes?
look better stock. you should go back over to your forum and brag there we don't want to hear it
Robert
look better stock. you should go back over to your forum and brag there we don't want to hear it
Robert
Now now. We won't get peace by throwing more sticks in the fire here.
Craig, you are starting to really seem like a *******. What the hell do you mean with this comment? Are you saying that if I like MY OWN car that I have to be something? Or if I don't like constant criticism from idiots like you? You have a screw loose between your ears. If you have not yet got it read very closely. I LIKE MY CAR. I did not buy it to make DC happy. I bought it to make me happy. I have many miles and years of ownership with the previous Viper. I believe I have an excellent perspective for comparison. And if my opinion is that I like the Gen III better than that is my opinion. Not because of DC. Because of ME. Get IT! Now why don't you get your 15 year old pea brain off this forum. I have had enough of your schtick.
Craig, you are starting to really seem like a *******. What the hell do you mean with this comment? Are you saying that if I like MY OWN car that I have to be something? Or if I don't like constant criticism from idiots like you? You have a screw loose between your ears. If you have not yet got it read very closely. I LIKE MY CAR. I did not buy it to make DC happy. I bought it to make me happy. I have many miles and years of ownership with the previous Viper. I believe I have an excellent perspective for comparison. And if my opinion is that I like the Gen III better than that is my opinion. Not because of DC. Because of ME. Get IT! Now why don't you get your 15 year old pea brain off this forum. I have had enough of your schtick.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
You can logout anytime...
That's extra special that you like your car I am happy for you!
I am not criticizing you I am criticizing the people who lost touch with what this car is about and as a result alienated a massive part of the cars audience. YES lots of people purchased the car however even more didn't buy the car and now DC is faced with a bunch of cars sitting on dealers lots taking up floorspace that could be used for a 300C or magnum.
Part of the Viper's previous appeal is the looks, it looked like nothing else. IF it was all about speed and speed only then just buy a vette and mod it and pocket the difference. Where is the motivation of spending almost double the $$ for a car that looks the same? Not DC's fault entirely but that's the problem with becomming "generic".. you become another GM.
vipah
Enthusiast
Really seems like the SRT owners have penis envy or something. I guess I would be a bit pissed if a Corvette (or a Mercedes, or......)could keep up with me at half the price as well. Not to mention that it looks almost exactly like a new Corvette.
You should be screaming at DC to make something like they did with the GTS. When it was introduced NOTHING could come close (unless you paid more than double).
You should be screaming at DC to make something like they did with the GTS. When it was introduced NOTHING could come close (unless you paid more than double).
luc
Enthusiast
What I think is funny on this thread is that GenI and II ownwers don't seems to have any problems acknowledging their cars shortcomings ( brake, fit & finish,less powerfull than the SRT,etc) but the SRT-10 ownwers (save for a couple like Chris)are having a tamper tantrum when we dare say that the styling is the SRT-10 weak point.
Talk about being insecure.
Luc.00GTS
Talk about being insecure.
Luc.00GTS
SoFlaSRT
Viper Owner
Luc, here's the difference. The Gen I and Gen II shortcomings you mentioned are objective, generally measurable. The SRT shortcoming is purely subjective and lies in the eyes and mind of the beholder. I, for one, genuinely love the styling of the SRT. I loved it the first time I saw pictures of it in magazines. I never wanted a Viper enough to get one until the SRT.
The point here is that it is totally subjective.
This thread inspired the thoughtful discussion that I intended. Some are able to contemplate how tactless the posts bashing the SRT-10 were. Some can actually understand that the posts bashing the aesthetics of the car were not well taken by most who actually own one. Some can understand that having an opinion about how a car looks is one thing, while claiming that the opinion is a FACT is another. I like the GenI/II cars, but have sense enough not to wade right in the middle of the Gen I/II owners and start bashing them, even if I am hiding behind a keyboard.
But then a handful of teenage low IQ trolls like Craig found yet another opportunity to chime in with such thoughtful, intelligent discourse as: "wwaaaahhh" "you sound like an insecure little baby" "penis envy" "Dude get back to me when you've made 100 posts" "now back to school little one"
Thank you.
And for the record, just because YOU think the SRT-10 doesn't look good does not make it a fact. Just because YOU say that a 'vast majority' of people does not like it does not make it a FACT. I'm sure that you've done some scientific polling so that you can accurately tell me what the 'vast majority' think about my car.
I don't want to scream at Dodge to change it. I like it. That's why I bought one. I like it better than Gen I/II cars. I did NOT buy one of them. I joined this forum to talk about my SRT-10 with other owners, not to be heckled by a jr high schooler from Canada or a bunch of guys who drive older Vipers and for some reason think they need to be on this forum bashing the newer ones. Steve, I'm not pissed because a Vette can 'keep up with me.' I lost that attitude 30 years ago, back in high school. I do know that if you are worried about 'keeping up' then you should keep your GTS away from ANY srt-10.
I've often heard the sterotypical view that Viper owners are low IQ gold chain wearing short men with lots of issues about being inadequate. Thank you for showing me that the sterotype is apparently quite accurate in some cases. I'm sure that when Craig ("I can drive anything I want") gets out of his K Car Daytona and into something a little more substantial then he will continue to show the charm, tact and intelligence he has exhibited on this forum.
DC
But then a handful of teenage low IQ trolls like Craig found yet another opportunity to chime in with such thoughtful, intelligent discourse as: "wwaaaahhh" "you sound like an insecure little baby" "penis envy" "Dude get back to me when you've made 100 posts" "now back to school little one"
Thank you.
And for the record, just because YOU think the SRT-10 doesn't look good does not make it a fact. Just because YOU say that a 'vast majority' of people does not like it does not make it a FACT. I'm sure that you've done some scientific polling so that you can accurately tell me what the 'vast majority' think about my car.
I don't want to scream at Dodge to change it. I like it. That's why I bought one. I like it better than Gen I/II cars. I did NOT buy one of them. I joined this forum to talk about my SRT-10 with other owners, not to be heckled by a jr high schooler from Canada or a bunch of guys who drive older Vipers and for some reason think they need to be on this forum bashing the newer ones. Steve, I'm not pissed because a Vette can 'keep up with me.' I lost that attitude 30 years ago, back in high school. I do know that if you are worried about 'keeping up' then you should keep your GTS away from ANY srt-10.
I've often heard the sterotypical view that Viper owners are low IQ gold chain wearing short men with lots of issues about being inadequate. Thank you for showing me that the sterotype is apparently quite accurate in some cases. I'm sure that when Craig ("I can drive anything I want") gets out of his K Car Daytona and into something a little more substantial then he will continue to show the charm, tact and intelligence he has exhibited on this forum.
DC
luc
Enthusiast
Soflasrt:
you make a a good point and thanks for using logic and reason instead of insult.
I agree with you you that styling is subjective, but not 100%.
Foe example,I see that you own an 01 M3 (great car,BTW).when the new 7" BMW came out, it's styling was universally critizided and to this day,most people will agree than while the new one is a better car, the old one look better.
So,yes styling is subjective ( some people even bought the Atzec)but you do have rules and objectivity in styling,proportion,curves,the way the lines flow together,etc are part of it.
Also it is a FACT that 99% of the timeless designed cars have very curvy/round shapes.
Wedge/angular shapes, for whatever reason do not lend themself to "classic" design and age very fast.
Luc.00GTS
you make a a good point and thanks for using logic and reason instead of insult.
I agree with you you that styling is subjective, but not 100%.
Foe example,I see that you own an 01 M3 (great car,BTW).when the new 7" BMW came out, it's styling was universally critizided and to this day,most people will agree than while the new one is a better car, the old one look better.
So,yes styling is subjective ( some people even bought the Atzec)but you do have rules and objectivity in styling,proportion,curves,the way the lines flow together,etc are part of it.
Also it is a FACT that 99% of the timeless designed cars have very curvy/round shapes.
Wedge/angular shapes, for whatever reason do not lend themself to "classic" design and age very fast.
Luc.00GTS
Looks are subjective. 100%. They can't be measured or quantified so yes, luc, looks are 100% subjective.
What are the "timeless designed cars"?? You say it is FACT that 99% of them are "curvy/round" Again, subjective. Not a FACT, this is your opinion.
If you say that the new Viper is measurably slower, heavier, less grippy, less torquey or something that can be measured then we will have an intelligent debate. If you tell me your 'opinion' about the srt-10 then there is no debate, unless you try to say your opinion is FACT. Your opinion is just that, opinion. Everyone has one. There is no right and no wrong. I respect your opinion. I disagree when you are talking about the subjective aesthetic impression my car makes. My opinion differs. Facts do not differ.
By the way I love the GTS luc. But, despite the fact that it is curvy and round, I do not believe that its look is more 'timeless than my SRT-10. Again, my opinion. I won't insult you by saying that it is a FACT that the srt-10 looks better, just because I say so.
DC
What are the "timeless designed cars"?? You say it is FACT that 99% of them are "curvy/round" Again, subjective. Not a FACT, this is your opinion.
If you say that the new Viper is measurably slower, heavier, less grippy, less torquey or something that can be measured then we will have an intelligent debate. If you tell me your 'opinion' about the srt-10 then there is no debate, unless you try to say your opinion is FACT. Your opinion is just that, opinion. Everyone has one. There is no right and no wrong. I respect your opinion. I disagree when you are talking about the subjective aesthetic impression my car makes. My opinion differs. Facts do not differ.
By the way I love the GTS luc. But, despite the fact that it is curvy and round, I do not believe that its look is more 'timeless than my SRT-10. Again, my opinion. I won't insult you by saying that it is a FACT that the srt-10 looks better, just because I say so.
DC
You got yourself a nice car. Matter-O-fact, I like em all, Z06, SL55/65, SVT Cobra, GT2, Supra, 360CS, RX-7 . . . They are all great. I have ignored the banter and appreciated the constructive comments from both of these threads. No insecurities here. But styling . . . is so subjective and hardly creates performance improvements. In fact, many here would believe the best styling is recognition of higher performance.
If DC is listening:
Sounds like the remaining Viper owners will upgrade if you focus on styling. Don't bother with that costly "rolling" wind tunnel testing for improved drag coefficient, downforce, ground clearance, or engine cooling as it really isn't appreciated.
(kidding!) Seriously DC: Please deliver a new GTS, quickly! Making the coupe fans wait for 3 years was not fair.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Dirk,
Again, relax... All that matters is what you think... Although, I disagree with you on styling NOT being able to be judged. It can be, IMO. The best place to judge styling is at a huge car show - ie The 2005 North American International Car Show in Detroit. Very few will be drooling over the SRT10. How do I know? Well, I've been going to that show for years, and the SRT10 has yet to draw 1/10th the crowd of the GT40 or Gen II (once did). People look at the SRT10 and say, 'Ooooo that's nice', and move on. Kind of the same reaction people have when they see a nice Merc., BMW, etc... When people see the GT40, they sit there in amazement with there jaws open snapping photos and staring for minutes. This was the same response the Gen I and Gen II Vipers had when they were showcased to the public. People went bonkers. And this is fact, not opinion, because I was there.... Now should this fact bother you? I don't think so. All that matters is you go bonkers over the SRT10. Should this fact bother DC? H*ll yes it should. The SRT10 has not drawn a crowd at NAIAS in the least, and that's why they keep bringing that stupid non-production V10 motorcycle and taking pictures of people sitting on the bike. That draws way more traffic than the SRT10. It will be interesting to see what they bring this year. I hope they leave the bike at home and bring the Comp. Coupe, GTS-R, or a new-and-improved concept Gen III coupe... The later being the most anticipated.
Again, relax... All that matters is what you think... Although, I disagree with you on styling NOT being able to be judged. It can be, IMO. The best place to judge styling is at a huge car show - ie The 2005 North American International Car Show in Detroit. Very few will be drooling over the SRT10. How do I know? Well, I've been going to that show for years, and the SRT10 has yet to draw 1/10th the crowd of the GT40 or Gen II (once did). People look at the SRT10 and say, 'Ooooo that's nice', and move on. Kind of the same reaction people have when they see a nice Merc., BMW, etc... When people see the GT40, they sit there in amazement with there jaws open snapping photos and staring for minutes. This was the same response the Gen I and Gen II Vipers had when they were showcased to the public. People went bonkers. And this is fact, not opinion, because I was there.... Now should this fact bother you? I don't think so. All that matters is you go bonkers over the SRT10. Should this fact bother DC? H*ll yes it should. The SRT10 has not drawn a crowd at NAIAS in the least, and that's why they keep bringing that stupid non-production V10 motorcycle and taking pictures of people sitting on the bike. That draws way more traffic than the SRT10. It will be interesting to see what they bring this year. I hope they leave the bike at home and bring the Comp. Coupe, GTS-R, or a new-and-improved concept Gen III coupe... The later being the most anticipated.
luc
Enthusiast
DC:
I'm going to give you 5 examples of classic timeless design,all have curvy/round shapes
Ferrari Daytona Coupe and Spyder
Mercedes Gulfwing
Jaguar XKE
Cobra
GT 40
Try to give me 5 timeless/classic design with wedge/angular shapes
Luc.
I'm going to give you 5 examples of classic timeless design,all have curvy/round shapes
Ferrari Daytona Coupe and Spyder
Mercedes Gulfwing
Jaguar XKE
Cobra
GT 40
Try to give me 5 timeless/classic design with wedge/angular shapes
Luc.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
FACT is the car is not selling. Why? Because it's so bland? That is the only downfall of this car so I can't help but conclude that is why it is not selling.
Looks/performance/emotion is what sold the old car, what's missing from the new one?
YOU
Robert,
If you missed the article with his car here's a pic below
You must be registered for see images
WISH, your in the wrong forum, if you want to "bad mouth" the SRT-10 and their owners do it somewhere else. Nobody cares about your GTS here.Robert,
If you missed the article with his car here's a pic below
You must be registered for see images
v10kingsnake
Viper Owner
dirk, you make me soooooo mad i don't know where to start. first off, how could you say all the crap regarding the looks and performance on the gen 1/2 and in the same paragraph then say how you love these camry "kit cars". you can look back at my posts, all of them, and see for yourself i was never one to bash any of my fellow viper owners, as we all have awesome american sportscars, and all value each others opinions and respect as to what our individual tastes are. do your research before posting such an A-hole statement regarding ebay and OUR cars because at last glance i saw many many listings for brand new gen3's listed at many thousands below invoice and used ones with nearly any miles being dumped for 20 grand under cost originally!!! hummmmm my 97 gts, has 9000 miles on it and i think after all these years its been out and i could still say that my car would sell for about the same loss as yours percentagewise, BUT my car is 7 years old!!! the vipers you see on ebay at 25-30 grand are not being sold. are you a fool that honestly believes this! i am sorry to see people attack each other on this site as it is not what i joined up for. i have attended numerous viper car shows and events and have asked the opinions of many gen1/2 owners of there opinion on the gen3 with very mixed reaction. many dont care for it, and want a coupe version to come out. i would also go as far as saying that many gen3 owners had currently or previously owned a gen1/2, again it must be because it was how they liked the looks of driving a kit car, right. i am sure the new vipers drive alot more civilized then my 97 but if i wanted a fast civil car i would buy a supercharged benz not a new viper, for me i like the fact that my car has the cam stutter, loud exhaust, and CLASSIC STYLING, and rough ride. i also love the fact that people like yourself make all the rest of us look so good! anytime you wanna see my kit car in person let me know it will be glad to meet its younger brother for an old fashioned ass-whooping down the quarter!peace.
Hockeysnake
Viper Owner
Question is, what is the problem with Viper owners on here? Holy mother of God! Does it really tweak everyone so bad when someone puts down their precious Viper? What about all the crap that is spewed on here regarding the Vettes, Mustangs, etc..? WAAAAAA he doesn't like my car. Life *****...get a helmet. Now get in your car, and go for a drive.
vipah
Enthusiast
Bottom line is that when the Gen I/Gen II cars were in production they were the best performance money could buy. Very few would argue with that (perhaps in the later years the Z06 was close). You can not argue with the unique (whether you like it or not) styling.
Now with the Gen III you can find equal performance in the Corvette at half the price. The styling looks almost the same as well. There are a handful of cars that can match or beat the performance. So I can see why you guys are pissed. Just not sure why you take it out in teh Gen I/II owners?
I would like to see the latest version of my car remaining the bad boy on the block. Unfortunately DC doesn't seem to care. Oh yeah, they plan to have new colors!
LMAO
Now with the Gen III you can find equal performance in the Corvette at half the price. The styling looks almost the same as well. There are a handful of cars that can match or beat the performance. So I can see why you guys are pissed. Just not sure why you take it out in teh Gen I/II owners?
I would like to see the latest version of my car remaining the bad boy on the block. Unfortunately DC doesn't seem to care. Oh yeah, they plan to have new colors!
LMAO
Blade Runner
Enthusiast
I think we need a time out here. Both parties go to your room. Later we will build a camp fire and toast some marshmallows and sing kumbyya. I'm glad you guys aren't talking about religion or politics.
trumper Z06
Enthusiast
Dirk, Luv your post KIT CAR.... roflmao !!!
Now go post this thread over on the Viper Alley !!! 
Lawrenzo
Enthusiast
The Lotus Esprit
Lambo Diablo
Mclaren F1
308
Pantera
SilverSnake
Viper Owner
SRT-10 Thanks for the pic, do you have the other side with the curb feelers installed
v10kingsnake,
I think it's pretty sad you only have nine thousand miles in seven years. You should of bought a ferrari instead of a gts. Your return on your investment would be alot better. I personaly have 3800 miles on my srt in three months. Why don't you get out a drive your gts. At the same time get some glasses so you can tell the difference between a vette and a viper. Also the c-6 zo6 numbers have not been published yet so i guess your mad at the c5 zo6 that covers your car in every way.
Robert
v10kingsnake,
I think it's pretty sad you only have nine thousand miles in seven years. You should of bought a ferrari instead of a gts. Your return on your investment would be alot better. I personaly have 3800 miles on my srt in three months. Why don't you get out a drive your gts. At the same time get some glasses so you can tell the difference between a vette and a viper. Also the c-6 zo6 numbers have not been published yet so i guess your mad at the c5 zo6 that covers your car in every way.
Robert
BadVenm
Enthusiast
Dirk,
The inital post in this thread is very good. I clearly understand the point you are trying to make.
As you and I spoke about in the other thread in the SRT section, I sometimes do not think things through before posting them. Who am I to come over here and air my opinion and thoughts, good or bad, about a car I do not own.
However, I have always tried to stay objective and state my thoughts as my opinion, and not just come out and bash the car. I like the car and still think I might have one sooner or later.
I do make my thoughts and opinions know on this forum in hopes the DC stylists read them and add a few things that would make me want one beyond all reason.
Like this..........
In my opinion, and for my style and taste, This is my perfect version of the meanest, emotion evoking, announce to the world, I'M A VIPER, I DARE YOU TO EVEN THINK ABOUT F#@&ING WITH ME, Gen III SRT-10 that DC could ever build!!!
If this were the SRT-10, I wouldn't be able to get my money to the dealership fast enough!!!
For the record, I did out right bash the concept Coupe they showed us at VOI 8. I was there, saw it, I touched it. In my opinion, they should just build the GTS-R and use that as the new coupe. Making only the changes they need, like raising the sides a little for real life street clearance, etc...
Like This..........
In my opinion and for my style and taste, This is my perfect version of the meanest, emotion evoking, announce to the world, I'M A VIPER, I DARE YOU TO EVEN THINK ABOUT F#@&ING WITH ME, Gen III Coupe that DC could ever build.
I'd sell my Gen II to get either of the above versions of this great car. These two versions make the Gen I and Gen II's look tame. THIS IS A WILD AMERICAN EXOTIC, AN AMERICAN STATEMENT - DON'T TREAD ON ME!!, attitude.
Where do I send my money for either one of these? And I would most likely take the open top version of these two cars, as I LOVE HP in an open top format!!
Dirk,
Since I read your input on the other bashing thread and this thread as well, I will always think about how and why I post my input on the Gen III board. Even though it's only my personal opinion, and it's my effort to get my wish list added to Viper production, this forum is not my home since I don't own one.
Peace!
The inital post in this thread is very good. I clearly understand the point you are trying to make.
As you and I spoke about in the other thread in the SRT section, I sometimes do not think things through before posting them. Who am I to come over here and air my opinion and thoughts, good or bad, about a car I do not own.
However, I have always tried to stay objective and state my thoughts as my opinion, and not just come out and bash the car. I like the car and still think I might have one sooner or later.
I do make my thoughts and opinions know on this forum in hopes the DC stylists read them and add a few things that would make me want one beyond all reason.
Like this..........
In my opinion, and for my style and taste, This is my perfect version of the meanest, emotion evoking, announce to the world, I'M A VIPER, I DARE YOU TO EVEN THINK ABOUT F#@&ING WITH ME, Gen III SRT-10 that DC could ever build!!!
If this were the SRT-10, I wouldn't be able to get my money to the dealership fast enough!!!
For the record, I did out right bash the concept Coupe they showed us at VOI 8. I was there, saw it, I touched it. In my opinion, they should just build the GTS-R and use that as the new coupe. Making only the changes they need, like raising the sides a little for real life street clearance, etc...
Like This..........
In my opinion and for my style and taste, This is my perfect version of the meanest, emotion evoking, announce to the world, I'M A VIPER, I DARE YOU TO EVEN THINK ABOUT F#@&ING WITH ME, Gen III Coupe that DC could ever build.
I'd sell my Gen II to get either of the above versions of this great car. These two versions make the Gen I and Gen II's look tame. THIS IS A WILD AMERICAN EXOTIC, AN AMERICAN STATEMENT - DON'T TREAD ON ME!!, attitude.
Where do I send my money for either one of these? And I would most likely take the open top version of these two cars, as I LOVE HP in an open top format!!
Dirk,
Since I read your input on the other bashing thread and this thread as well, I will always think about how and why I post my input on the Gen III board. Even though it's only my personal opinion, and it's my effort to get my wish list added to Viper production, this forum is not my home since I don't own one.
Peace!
SRT10:In the words of Buzz Lightyear "your a sad strange little man" get a clue the GTS/RT-10's were getting pounded from the opening post go back and read it nim-no. p.s. Nice picture of your Vette when did you move out of your mobile home?
SilverSnake
Viper Owner
YouWish,
GO HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vipah
Enthusiast
I heard that the SRT sales are so bad that you will soon be able to get them in ******* Jacks.
bad vnm
my check is right behind yours...
I wish the boys at SRT or DC would give us a little spy pick or something to
chew on so we can all start talking about something besides all this ****
thats been re-hashed over and over.
I'll say it again... I wish it was january... so I can either install a paxton
or save the money towards the new coupe or whatever.
my check is right behind yours...
I wish the boys at SRT or DC would give us a little spy pick or something to
chew on so we can all start talking about something besides all this ****
thats been re-hashed over and over.
I'll say it again... I wish it was january... so I can either install a paxton
or save the money towards the new coupe or whatever.
