What makes more power. A bored and stroked V8 or a big V10 Viper Engine

[Toronto_ACR]

Can anyone tell me if they know what kind of motor will make more power if you want to build all out drag car that will ooooze power. I was told that a bored V8 with a stroker crank such as Big Block Chevy or a big Ford v8 engine will make more power than a 500 plus Viper engine due to bigger bores and longer strokes. The V8 they say are still best for doing a drag car for all out power. is this true. Has anyone ever tried to make 1000HP or more normally aspirated from a Viper engine. Again that is normally aspirated and not supercharged or turbocharged

Thanks

 

[Jerome Sparich]

I can not answer that question. Too many variables.

Torque is what is important to get the car moving. Not how many cylinders make it.

A little FYI for you.

Someone was running dragster with a Viper V10 in it. I saw it for sale last year in National Dragster. It did go pretty good too.

 

[onerareviper]

Basically, everything associated with the Viper V10 is:

1.) Very limited - Small aftermarket
2.) Very expensive
3.) Very few qualified tuners/engine builders

If your building stickly a drag car, this combination is not a good one. On the other hand, could the V10 motor make massive power N/A? H*ll yes. Has anyone done 1000 HP N/A? Probably close, but most Viper motors are built to withstand street driving, pump gas, and a lot of driving miles. I bet racing fuel or alcohol & big compression numbers in a dedicated 1/4 mile motor could easily pass the 1000 hp mark, but just a guess.

My .02

 

[Russ M]

Assuming that you are going to be working with after market heads and block the v8's will produce more power. Its simple really, larger displacement potential and much better flowing cylinder heads.

You can build a 700 cubic inch v8 to produce 1200hp naturally aspirated. Viper motors just don't have the after market support needed to compete.

 

[MichaelP]

There was a guy in St Pete with a car called Sir Hiss. IT was a Viper that he put a V8. I BELIEVE he was doing 9sec 1/4s before anyone else.

It seems a better platform for making more power.

 

[Toronto_ACR]

has anyone gotten 1000HP normally aspirated from a V10. I guess the best builder for Vipers on the normally aspirated front is. I cant believe I forgot his name. The guy with the yellow Viper that was in the Car and Driver Magazine a few months ago in the ultimate fighting shootout which had the Lingenfelter Corvette as the champion. Anyway he got 800HP from his normally aspirated car. But he was shooting for a street legal nice driving car to go with performance.

 

[LTHL VPR]

What is the name of that guy you are speaking about????.......OH! It's me.
At this point, the most we were able to get out of the car was 671 rwhp and 715 rwtq. The car is still very drivable for the street. If we were building a road-race only or a drag-strip car, we could definitely get more power through increased compression, a much more aggressive cam that would have very poor street drivability, and running purely on race gas. Unfortunately, this is not the main customer target segment, and really limits the audience. That is why Car and Driver gave the car the HIGHEST rating for drivability of ANY Viper tested. It is not only a power game...

 

[Toronto_ACR]

I apologize for forgetting the name. I am very impressed with what you guys can do with the Vipers. I agree with you in that most Viper owners who want to modify the cars with the right amount of cash of course, also want the car to be driveable and street legal. I am hoping that I will be able to do the same within the next few nonths if all goes well with business. I will be calling you if that happens. Until then can you please tell me if your Lethal 750 has a very lumpy sound with the cam you put in. Do you need a radical cam to get those impressive power numbers. Also is that 750HP to the rear wheels or is that crankshaft power
Thanks

 

[LTHL VPR]

The car has a slightly more aggressive idle, but, to be honest, our cam is conservative considering that we added 62 c.i. of displacement. I know there are some tuners using more aggressive cams in stock cars than we are using in our bored/stroked packages. The problem is that as you go more aggressive, the low end drivability (cruising around town) becomes worse. A frequent symptom are that the car will surge at low, constant rpms or the idle will become mor erratic. If you are road racing, and you keep the rpms up, then this becomes less of an issue. For street driving, then the drivability becomes a huge issue.

The last numbers we got on our conservative dyno were 671 rwhp and 712rwtq. The car had 700 miles on the engine.

Regards,
Wayne

 

[KenH]

Frankly, I don't think anyone has ever tried to build a max'd out 1/4 mile V10 engine whether it is N/A or not. Since most reside in Vipers, maximum power always seems to be a secondary consideration after streetability and reliability, especially if the car is road raced. Few (if any) Viper owners are willing to make the changes necessary to build a dedicated drag car out of their Viper as it is not a good 1/4 mile platform to begin with.

As for the engine itself, there is little or no aftermarket support for the major components like heads, it is an expensive platform to work with or take risks with and there is not much of a knowledge base as to how to extract maximum power. It's not like you can just open a Summit catalog and order the stuff you need like you can with a BB Chevy. If someone tried to do it, it would be for the novelty and not because it is the most logical path to take.

--- Ken

 

[ronviper]

TorontoACR I have a cousin by the name of HUGHIE, i am sure he can give you all the BORE AND STROKE you would ever need.

 

[Toronto_ACR]

RonViper that is not the kind of boring that I am looking for. I am interested in Waynes kind of boring for my v-10. i like what he is doing. Wayne I hope to call you shortly. But get ready for a loy of questions. I want to see what is best. A supercharger or to keep it normallt aspirated. I also agree that a v-8 that has been around for 60 years is better suited for the drags due to more available parts. but i heard that a bigger bore and a shorter stroke will make more power due to higher RPM potential

 

[Torquemonster]

Either will do the job at 1000hp...

If money is not an issue the V10 would have a lot of interest and be fun. The crank is long and will break before an equivalent spec V8 one will... but you can get top fuel quality custom cranks made to order.... the block will flex more than a top aftermarket V8 block too - but at 1000hp it may not be a big problem.... but long before 2000hp, I'd expect some large holes or cracks to appear from the stress. So block is an unknown up there - until someone does it.... if you can afford to be guinea pig - go experiment!

If money is a factor - read between the lines what everyone is telling you - if you run the V10 n/a right up over 1000hp - which is technically easy to do - you are pioneering - read BE PREPARED TO BUDGET $50,000 for engine alone in first season, and high R & M costs thereafter until everything is sorted. I'm not trying to put you off - but I've been there - tried to be different to everyone else and you can trust me that you are looking at a bottomless pit if you want to best - everything can be accomplished at a price - but if money is a problem - this is not the route for you.

The boosted Vipers seem to last ok - but you must understand that 1000hp street car that can't use its power is not the same animal as a 1000hp race car that will hook, that will be driven to max every time it runs - and stress everything to the limit. They are worlds apart unless you are looking at only a weekend warrior once in a while.

For less than the cost of building a complete race V10 (even if you already own one)you could run a new pan to tunnel ram Indy Mopar wedge 572-632 cube. The Mopar has advantages over Chev and Ford of bigger lifters for a more aggressive cam profile being possible (for the few smart enough to do this), and longer rods being posible for better rod/stroke ratios - which aid longer life at high rpm. As for torque vs hp - torque moves the car, but its combo that wins races and rpms often help.... a steeper gear makes torque anyway. A short rod will make a little more torque but is much harsher on the engine and is prone to putting a leg out of bed. I never saw a 454 Chev beat a properly prepared 440 Mopar - the 440 was always the king if built right. For racing, the longer rods work.... look at the Pro Stock trucks running well over 7" rods!

The Indy 600 Heads will flow beyond 1000hp comfortably. You could run a Hemi - but the wedge is as fast and cheaper and just as reliable... and LIGHTER - a complete 572 wedge weighs 460lbs! Thats way less than a V10... its also shorter so better setback.

.... call Russ or Jim at Indy Cylinder Heads or Ray Barton in PA (legendary Race Hemi engine builder) - they'll each be able to build you a Mopar that will run with anything in that budget and class. We've run Indy hardwear to 6.8 seconds at 3000lbs - and that's a lot more than 1000hp. Ray Barton builds as good an engine as you'll get. He sends parts/combo's all over the world. That's where I'd go....