What to do at same time as Gen 1 Head Gaskets

V10SpeedLuvr

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Thanks to Chuck Tator and Dan at Viper Specialty, I now have a Gen 1 head gasket set :2tu: This is a little premature because I won't be doing the headgaskets right away, but when I do start the work, whats some other fun stuff I can do to the engine? I'd love to put a Roe blower on it, but the $$ isn't in my piggy bank right now. So, besides that, what else can I do to pep up performance a little bit? For now, the engine is stock except for Borla Headers.
 

Asp Man

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Sounds like the start of a good winter project, too bad the season will be short where you are, Chad.:D
Dollar for dollar, a good valve-job would be a start. Maybe upgrade to high ratio rockers, new springs, retainers, etc. A sort of "bullet proofing" for the top end prior to adding a supercharger.
 
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V10SpeedLuvr

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I'm brave, but not brave enough to make this a solo adventure. My winter project will be buying beer and going to a trustworthy VCA member's house and assisting them :D Thanks for the suggestions! I was thinking of upgrading the cam. Worth the $$/hassle?
 
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jasontiff

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I'm brave, but not brave enough to make this a solo adventure. My winter project will be buying beer and going to a trustworthy VCA member's house and assisting them :D Thanks for the suggestions! I was thinking of upgrading the cam. Worth the $$/hassle?

You can get a 708 from Scharf for around $200 on Ebay. From what I've been told, you don't even have to pull the motor if you have a lift. Just unbolt the back of the tranny and slide the cam in over the radiator and fan assembly (after removing the timing chain cover, etc.).

From what it sounds like, the hassle and cost is pretty minimal. As I said, this is what I've heard. Mine is still sitting in my garage floor but I DID get my gaskets from Dan today...I'm one step closer to throwing all that stuff on! Good luck!
 

1994viper

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How much are the head gaskets? I saw some aftermarket ones available, but do not know if they are any good, or can compare to the stock ones.
 

VIPER BAZ UK

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Have the heads massaged, 1.7 RR and put in a 708 cam. That will wake up the little Gen I

:2tu::2tu:

Thats what i would do as well....And all ready for the Roe.....:drive:

You will need at least that to keep up with a stock Yellow RT.........
 

viperrt96

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Have the heads massaged, 1.7 RR and put in a 708 cam. That will wake up the little Gen I

Little Gen I ? Hmm.............Gen I's and Gen II's are dimensionally the same motor (with a few exceptions). They share the same displacement, bore, stroke and valve sizes. The only differences are in the heads, cam profile, exhaust, and TB sizes. They are in an essence. The same motor.

Good advice nonetheless. I picked up 100hp at the rear by doing exactly as he has suggested - with a few more details. Anyway my car dyno's 490/520 at the rear now and it runs mid to low 11's on just motor. Throw in the spray and it's in the 10's. It's the best money I've spent. And before the mod I was lucky to click off a 12.8.
Have you ever had your car to the track ? If you had then you can relate.

First off is the Cam. Don't buy used. A new 708 cam cost just a little over $250 new. Part number 4763 708. That cam likes a certain center line when you degree it in too. I think it was 119. It's around 116 out of the box. You would then need the adjustable timing set to do so and it's around $250 (part number P4876 834). Put in new lifters and you're done. The pic below isn't the adjustable gear set because I machined my own so it's the stock one.
1813DSC00744.jpg


Next are the Heads. This is where you will spend the money and it's where the biggest bang comes from. Sorry I don't have any pics of my port work before the install but if you had noticed when you put on you're headers the Gen I's have a heavy shelf (lack of a better word) just above the exhaust valve and the bottom of the head exiting the port. It's very big and very restrictive. I do have a pic of after port and you can clearly see the valve seat. Before you couldn't.

DSC04135.jpg


Also the stock Gen I's TB's are tapered down to 56mm and the Gen II's are close to 62mm. Here's a pic of a stock gen I TB compared to a modified (Gen II size) 62mm. You can see the difference. Just buy a set of Accufab 65mm TB's and you'll be in business. Putting your stock TB's back on will just defeat the purpose

181308tbvs62m.jpg


You then buy a set of Gen II injectors and you got yourself a hopped up GenII. Well sort of.......actually better

Oh and Chad, you might remember me as I sold you my old Borla headers. That's what you have on your car now right? You might think about upgrading there too. They are far better than stock but if you modify the motor a bigger (primary tube size) will be better. I went to Edlebrocks and gained almost 20hp over those Borla's.
 
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Chuck Tator recommend changing valve seals at minimum when doing the head gaskets. Very inexpensive items and a good time to change them out. I removed each valve and cleaned off all the carbon deposit on the heads and tops of pistons. Heads looked like new when cleaned up. I also installed Harland Sharp 1.7 rollers when I replaced my head gaskets along with ceramic coated Borla Headers. All in preparation for a SC that will hopefully be installed some time in the future.:headbang:
 
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V10SpeedLuvr

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Thanks guys, great advice! (well except for Baz's little comment about keeping up with a yellow RT :D )! What should I put in the budget to spend on the head work? I already have Gen 2 injectors (not installed, but have a set), so looks like I gotta plan for the head work, throttle bodies, roller rockers, the cam ($250), adjustable timing set ($250) and other little odds and ends like valve seals and whatever else we replace to "freshen" up the motor. I'll prob hold off on upgrading the headers for now, since I'm happy with my Borlas. I said I was gonna wait, but once I get a better idea of how much $$ I can plan on spending...well, I may let Christmas come early :D Then ofcourse, I'll need to buy another Gen 1 to leave stock for those days when I wanna get the McMonster a break :D:eater:
 

TexasPettey

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I'd suggest going with Greg Good for the heads. You might be able to find a cheaper job, but you won't find a better job. To puy it in perspective, Greg has my Gen1 heads flowing 305CFM on the intake side. Compare that to the best stats you can find on the web, and you'll see it at or above everything out there. Also, you can have him shave them and massage the chamber, if you want. That will effectively increase your compression without doing the bottom end. Since the heads are such a pain to do, and they form the basis of what you can work going forward, I'd put a bit extra into the work. If you cut back there, you'll be limited on what you get out of the rest of the mods going forward. You can buy a set of take off Gen1 heads cheap, have Greg do the work, and have them ready to put on when you want to do the work. That minimizes downtime.

Since most of the remaining work can be done after the fact, I'd suggest doing the 708 CAM & head work while you change the gaskets. You should also look at doing timing chain and water pump. Both are probably old and are easy to do once the front cover is off. It's a pain if they go when you're wanting to run the car.

After that, headers, CAT-back, rocker arms, VEC or other engine tune mechanism, TB's, and maybe have the intake ported to match the heads and TB's. All 6 of those can be done after the heads/CAM are done and can be done in stages as $ are available. If you already have headers and CAT-back, then you've got everything needed on the exhaust side.

I did the Gen2 injectors on mine. I had thought to do a before/after comparison of the air/fuel to see if the Gen1 injectors were maxed out before reaching 500RWHP. However, I didn't get around to it.

I will be putting 65mm Accufabs on my car with a before/after dyno. We've got a dyno day on 12/6, which I'm hoping to use to add some real data to the TB performance debate.

One thing you'll find about the car with all the intake/exhaust work is that it will run strong at higher RPMs. Most of the torque fall off in the Gen1 cars is due to heavily restricted intake paths and a moderate CAM profile. If you get the right springs & valve train work, you'll be able to run above the 6K redline. I don't on my car, but I have less concern about the redline since the valve train is much stroger than stock.
 

jasontiff

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How much are the head gaskets? I saw some aftermarket ones available, but do not know if they are any good, or can compare to the stock ones.

The pre-buy that ended last month was $250/set, but they're $400 now I believe.
 

plumcrazy

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i wouldn't do a single thing without calling greg good 713-290-1103. he can do some mild head work,new springs and all for a very good price and he can and will help you find a good cam for the combo. i know there are much better cams than the 708. if you're gonna go thru all this work, do it once and do it right.... TRUST ME ON THIS ONE !!!

its easy for ME to spend your hard earned cash but learn from my mistakes.

and give a call to JD for his help and advice on this.
 
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V10SpeedLuvr

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i wouldn't do a single thing without calling greg good 713-290-1103. he can do some mild head work,new springs and all for a very good price and he can and will help you find a good cam for the combo. i know there are much better cams than the 708. if you're gonna go thru all this work, do it once and do it right.... TRUST ME ON THIS ONE !!!

its easy for ME to spend your hard earned cash but learn from my mistakes.

and give a call to JD for his help and advice on this.

Thanks Phil, I definitely want to make this a one-shot adventure, and not need to upgrade/replace anything anytime soon. I'll give Greg a call next week. Voicemail was left for JD last night :) Tony is next on my "need to call" list.
 

plumcrazy

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good move. you're too close to them NOT to ask for help/guidance. and BOTH are GG fans too...
 

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