Where would you have your....

V10lover

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Engine rebuild in the east coast?

Also, what Would I be expecting to pay for it (labor only)?

Gen 4 Engine/ 2010 ACR

I would be suppling the engine builder/shop with the parts that I already bought.

Will be shooting for big HP in 2013 via Nitrous or Turbo charger. :2tu:
 

TowDawg

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You do realize, you're looking at $20k+ on top of any engine work, in order to make big power on a Gen IV? The ECU can't be tuned to compensate for forced induction, so you'll have to run a complete stand-alone system.
 
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V10lover

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You do realize, you're looking at $20k+ on top of any engine work, in order to make big power on a Gen IV? The ECU can't be tuned to compensate for forced induction, so you'll have to run a complete stand-alone system.

With turbos yes, I could easily see even way more than that and the sky would be the limit.

With nitrous, would have to disagree. 6-7K for a motec 800 ( found it online) + 2-3 k for a nitrous kit (RSI kit) . So way less than what you thought. So 10K + install of the nitrous kit and Motec or pectel Standalone. Probably 2-3k on labor??
 

TowDawg

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I would guess quite a bit higher on the Motec install, but I could be wrong. I would defer to Dan at VS on that one.
 

Viper Specialty

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Just a few pointers early in the game:

1. You are way off on your estimates for installing a Motec or Pectel system, and you are making decisions/forming directions without any of the background needed to make the correct choices on these systems. Ask a professional what they recommend, and don't take advise from people who just want to sell you an ECU, with no ability to actually support it or install it. You are also looking at BASE Motec pricing... you would need quite a few options just to run a Gen-4, and multiple expander modules.

2. Tuners and Builders do not like to be handed a pile of parts to build a car. I can guarantee you that you will be buying parts that would not be recommended or used. All pistons, rods, bearings, and accessories are not created equally, and no builder is going to put their name on the line with parts that they don't recommend, and didn't make any profit off of either. Gen-4 engines are a whole different ball game compared to Gen-1/2/3 cars. I can almost guarantee this is the case, because none of the off-the-shelf engine parts for Vipers are all that fantastic, or even right for most applications. If you went through the hassle of getting custom parts from a Viper engine builder, you would have a builder already by default, and wouldn't be asking to locate one. My guess is you ended up with generic parts, and probably not ones that would be recomended.

3. Do not expect a builder or tuner to support products you purchased online. There is a reason online warehouse retailers have rock-bottom pricing on some of the very complicated items like Motec ECU's: they have no ability nor intention of ever supporting the products you just purchased from them.


Just a few pointers, as I see this more and more these days. Hopefully you haven't gone shopping yet, and are now stuck with a bunch of desk ornaments.
 
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Nader

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Trust me listen to Dan... Again do some research. I did and all fingers pointed to Dan for big power done right.


He was the architect and builder of my one off creation...



Just a few pointers early in the game:

1. You are way off on your estimates for installing a Motec or Pectel system, and you are making decisions/forming directions without any of the background needed to make the correct choices on these systems. Ask a professional what they recommend, and don't take advise from people who just want to sell you an ECU, with no ability to actually support it or install it. You are also looking at BASE Motec pricing... you would need quite a few options just to run a Gen-4, and multiple expander modules.

2. Tuners and Builders do not like to be handed a pile of parts to build a car. I can guarantee you that you will be buying parts that would not be recommended or used. All pistons, rods, bearings, and accessories are not created equally, and no builder is going to put their name on the line with parts that they don't recommend, and didn't make any profit off of either. Gen-4 engines are a whole different ball game compared to Gen-1/2/3 cars. I can almost guarantee this is the case, because none of the off-the-shelf engine parts for Vipers are all that fantastic, or even right for most applications. If you went through the hassle of getting custom parts from a Viper engine builder, you would have a builder already by default, and wouldn't be asking to locate one. My guess is you ended up with generic parts, and probably not ones that would be recomended.

3. Do not expect a builder or tuner to support products you purchased online. There is a reason online warehouse retailers have rock-bottom pricing on some of the very complicated items like Motec ECU's: they have no ability nor intention of ever supporting the products you just purchased from them.


Just a few pointers, as I see this more and more these days. Hopefully you haven't gone shopping yet, and are now stuck with a bunch of desk ornaments.
 

Moundir

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that is some serious car ****!! I'd love to see and hear that beast in person!! What a work of art :2tu:
 

Will at RSI

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It generally takes a couple of these to learn what big horse power requires on a new platform.

You must be registered for see images
 

Viper X

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Nader,

Your engine is real "purdy".

V10lover,

Listen to the posters here. Dan has forgotten more about Viper than most will ever know.

Dan
 

Nader

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haha. Thanks Dan. Some like to learn the hard way some listen and learn.


Nader,

Your engine is real "purdy".

V10lover,

Listen to the posters here. Dan has forgotten more about Viper than most will ever know.

Dan
 

viper04

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It generally takes a couple of these to learn what big horse power requires on a new platform.

You must be registered for see images

WillH
my goodness!!!! what the deal here?
 

Matt162

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Dan Lesser, Viper Specialties Performance. If you want the best of the best I wouldnt go anywhere else.
 
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V10lover

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Just a few pointers early in the game:

1. You are way off on your estimates for installing a Motec or Pectel system, and you are making decisions/forming directions without any of the background needed to make the correct choices on these systems. Ask a professional what they recommend, and don't take advise from people who just want to sell you an ECU, with no ability to actually support it or install it. You are also looking at BASE Motec pricing... you would need quite a few options just to run a Gen-4, and multiple expander modules.

2. Tuners and Builders do not like to be handed a pile of parts to build a car. I can guarantee you that you will be buying parts that would not be recommended or used. All pistons, rods, bearings, and accessories are not created equally, and no builder is going to put their name on the line with parts that they don't recommend, and didn't make any profit off of either. Gen-4 engines are a whole different ball game compared to Gen-1/2/3 cars. I can almost guarantee this is the case, because none of the off-the-shelf engine parts for Vipers are all that fantastic, or even right for most applications. If you went through the hassle of getting custom parts from a Viper engine builder, you would have a builder already by default, and wouldn't be asking to locate one. My guess is you ended up with generic parts, and probably not ones that would be recomended.

3. Do not expect a builder or tuner to support products you purchased online. There is a reason online warehouse retailers have rock-bottom pricing on some of the very complicated items like Motec ECU's: they have no ability nor intention of ever supporting the products you just purchased from them.


Just a few pointers, as I see this more and more these days. Hopefully you haven't gone shopping yet, and are now stuck with a bunch of desk ornaments.


1) Thank you for the info, Sir! So what would be the additions needed to make a M800 work on a gen 4 from your experience?

2) I bought pistons, rings and rods so far. Had Sean Roe, at roeracing to place the order for me and he and his team were very helpful to make sure this is going to be perfect for the 08-10s viper engine. All the other parts, including the main caps, bearings, gaskets, etc.. were not ordered yet.

3) Thanks, So you say that they(online websites) won't warranty the motec is it fails for some reason?

I will have the parts arriving in a few weeks...:headbang: Hopefully, they will be ornaments for only a few months as I want to admire those beauties close to my bed and pillow... LOL.. Ordered the CP pistons with their rings and the Carrillo Rods with the multiphase bolts.
The pistons should be good for nitrous or turbo with the 10:1 compression ordered. Don't know which power adder will go with yet. I love turbos and twinscrew supercharger personally and hate centrifugals and nitrous but nitrous might be the 1st option until I get have the extra $$ to go turbo or twinscrew down the road.
 
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V10lover

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Trust me listen to Dan... Again do some research. I did and all fingers pointed to Dan for big power done right.


He was the architect and builder of my one off creation...



Your engine bay looks excelent!! Great job guys!

Now if you want to exchange your T.bodies for my laggy gen 4s T.Bs you are more than welcome! :D
 
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V10lover

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Gen 4... 30 psi of boost.

Humm, I see why 30psi is a lot!

If I go turbo one day don't plan on going more than 10-14 psi. Figured that a lot of boost won't be needed to take me to the promise land. 1000 hp or so with engine reliabillity, longevity it should be my goal. I like engines that last.
 

Viper Specialty

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1) Thank you for the info, Sir! So what would be the additions needed to make a M800 work on a gen 4 from your experience?

A professional tuner and installer with a better understanding of the Gen-4 Viper electrical system than you can imagine. That's just for starters.

2) I bought pistons, rings and rods so far. Had Sean Roe, at roeracing to place the order for me and he and his team were very helpful to make sure this is going to be perfect for the 08-10s viper engine. All the other parts, including the main caps, bearings, gaskets, etc.. were not ordered yet.

Perfect for an 08-10 Viper Engine... a generic build, perhaps. Unfortunately however, there is no way to nail down a 100% correct rotating assembly until you pick a builder, take into account THAT builders preferences, build styles, and options, and you absolutely need to have a final build direction chosen. Will the parts you bought work? Sure, in most applications they will... but they certainly aren't the same thing I would choose. They may be the same manufacturers and materials, but that doesn't mean they have the same design or measurements overall. There are options available that require specific alterations to the rotating assembly that must be taken into account from the beginning. Based on what you are discussing, with regard to Nitrous, TT, 10:1 Comp, etc... you are taking about some fundamentally different builds and piston designs, especially on a Gen-4. Some tuners use standard part designs for multiple applications, some don't.

3) Thanks, So you say that they(online websites) won't warranty the motec is it fails for some reason?

Generally, they will warranty it if it as obvious failure [physical damage new in the box, etc], but in general, no, an electronic device that requires a wiring harness to be assembled will NOT be warrantied since you can easily damage it by wiring it wrong, and you are 2-3 sales removed from the manufacturer at that point. I was however primarily referring to... who exactly do you plan on asking for the options you need? The software help? Hardware help? Wiring harness design? Hardware configuration? Sensors? Tuning? Many of those items require dealer intervention or are Viper specific, and unless you are extremely versed in Motec and engine management in general, you are in over your head on this without the help of a REAL Viper tuner, not an online retailer.

Basically, what it comes down to is why would a tuner support all of these items or give you information... so you can go and buy it online? Even if you buy it online, a tuner would end up billing you separately for all of the after-sale support, some of which would be included had you bought it from them originally. Secondly, what is to say that tuner would EVER use the ECU you are looking at in your application given the choice? Thirdly, liability... who do you point the finger at if something doesn't go as planned when you assemble it? If you end up with a bad ECU; you will point the finger at the installer, he will point the finger at the ECU manufacturer, and the ECU manufacturer will point the finger at you- and specifically, that finger is going to be of the middle variety. The exact same argument goes for engine parts as well; If you just want an "engine assembler", then don't be surprised if the final product doesn't work out/fit together/needs alterations/etc.

There is a fundamental reason that multi-builder/tuner builds turn into a disaster: Because everyone does things differently, and not all ideas are interchangeable. I have dealt with enough of them over the years to avoid them like the plague, because I have always ended up picking up the slack for someone else. In the end, the builder is the one who gets to find and deal with all of the hassles, mistakes, and problems that all of the "parts suppliers" walk away from after making their quick sale.



NOTE: comments in this post are in NO WAY directed towards Roe Racing, just speaking in general terms.
 
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Viper Specialty

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Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are the 4s less stout than the 3s (block itself)??

If you don't have access to the right parts selection and knowledge of what the weak points are... yep, they are in some ways unfortunately. They do however have the ability to be stronger than the others however if built properly.
 

Viper Specialty

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Humm, I see why 30psi is a lot!

If I go turbo one day don't plan on going more than 10-14 psi. Figured that a lot of boost won't be needed to take me to the promise land. 1000 hp or so with engine reliabillity, longevity it should be my goal. I like engines that last.

There were a number of other contributing factors in that failure if memory serves.
 
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Will at RSI

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If you don't have access to the right parts selection and knowledge of what the weak points are... yep, they are in some ways unfortunately. They do however have the ability to be stronger than the others however if built properly.

Dan,

How much power have your produced with a Gen IV block?
 

GTLaser

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If you are around the mid atlantic area I would go to ISPracing..... Peter is the owner and I have seen at least half a dozen Vipers come out of there this year and a crap load of 1000+ hp Supras....
 

challenger&viper

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I heard some shops already have a way to tune gen4 viper computers. Don't know how they do it.

Last night, I saw 2 sls amg, 4 c63 amg and a gtr driving fast and racing. All of them seemed to be modified.too bad that we can't have more fun with our beloved gen4 vipers.

Is there another hi performance car, beside gen IV viper, that can not be tunned ??
 

VYPR BYT 94

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Trust me listen to Dan... Again do some research. I did and all fingers pointed to Dan for big power done right.


He was the architect and builder of my one off creation...


Wow.... :omg:

Nader, do you have any video of that thing rumbling?
 
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V10lover

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A professional tuner and installer with a better understanding of the Gen-4 Viper electrical system than you can imagine. That's just for starters.



Perfect for an 08-10 Viper Engine... a generic build, perhaps. Unfortunately however, there is no way to nail down a 100% correct rotating assembly until you pick a builder, take into account THAT builders preferences, build styles, and options, and you absolutely need to have a final build direction chosen. Will the parts you bought work? Sure, in most applications they will... but they certainly aren't the same thing I would choose. They may be the same manufacturers and materials, but that doesn't mean they have the same design or measurements overall. There are options available that require specific alterations to the rotating assembly that must be taken into account from the beginning. Based on what you are discussing, with regard to Nitrous, TT, 10:1 Comp, etc... you are taking about some fundamentally different builds and piston designs, especially on a Gen-4. Some tuners use standard part designs for multiple applications, some don't.



Generally, they will warranty it if it as obvious failure [physical damage new in the box, etc], but in general, no, an electronic device that requires a wiring harness to be assembled will NOT be warrantied since you can easily damage it by wiring it wrong, and you are 2-3 sales removed from the manufacturer at that point. I was however primarily referring to... who exactly do you plan on asking for the options you need? The software help? Hardware help? Wiring harness design? Hardware configuration? Sensors? Tuning? Many of those items require dealer intervention or are Viper specific, and unless you are extremely versed in Motec and engine management in general, you are in over your head on this without the help of a REAL Viper tuner, not an online retailer.

Basically, what it comes down to is why would a tuner support all of these items or give you information... so you can go and buy it online? Even if you buy it online, a tuner would end up billing you separately for all of the after-sale support, some of which would be included had you bought it from them originally. Secondly, what is to say that tuner would EVER use the ECU you are looking at in your application given the choice? Thirdly, liability... who do you point the finger at if something doesn't go as planned when you assemble it? If you end up with a bad ECU; you will point the finger at the installer, he will point the finger at the ECU manufacturer, and the ECU manufacturer will point the finger at you- and specifically, that finger is going to be of the middle variety. The exact same argument goes for engine parts as well; If you just want an "engine assembler", then don't be surprised if the final product doesn't work out/fit together/needs alterations/etc.

There is a fundamental reason that multi-builder/tuner builds turn into a disaster: Because everyone does things differently, and not all ideas are interchangeable. I have dealt with enough of them over the years to avoid them like the plague, because I have always ended up picking up the slack for someone else. In the end, the builder is the one who gets to find and deal with all of the hassles, mistakes, and problems that all of the "parts suppliers" walk away from after making their quick sale.



NOTE: comments in this post are in NO WAY directed towards Roe Racing, just speaking in general terms.


Thank you for your opinion on all that, Dan.

Makes much more sense to me now.

We will see what happens with my build as it will take a little time and i have decided to play with a little nitrous on the stock motor for now.

Thanks,
again!:2tu:
 

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