Where's the 2008-10 Horsepower?

[commonsense]

Just looked at the K and N site. They dyno'd a stock 2008 and got a maximum of 450 hp at the wheels. If the car is really making 600 hp, it should have been making at least 525 hp at the wheels. What gives? I looked up their dyno chart on the Z06 (stock horsepower 505) AND IT MADE ALMOST THE SAME HORSEPOWER! Anyone have any answers to this? Are the 2008's and later really making no more horsepower than the earlier Gen 3's 510 hp?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Using the wrong numbers because it was NEVER tested.

 

[ViperDreams]

So when you go get your car dynoed after a new K&N air filter you think you gained 75rwhp.

 

[plumcrazy]

I never heard of an 08 dyno at 450 unless it was on 9 cylinders

 

[commonsense]

This is why I'm asking. K and N has a good reputation. Maybe we should email them for an explanation. They have no agenda here to say the Viper makes less horsepower. They're only interested in showing what gain their filters can make. Whether the car made 450 hp stock or 525 stock, it should not affect their performance gain. Here's a link to the dyno chart. http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/69-2527_dyno.pdf

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The factory intake system has been tweaked by the SRT team and is extremely affective, and works for the PCM. The K&N is not even sealed to the hood like the factory system so there is no ram-air effect and it can ingest hot under hood air...

I would pass on this mod, but you have to decide in the end. I would also worry about the added weight out in front of the plastic throttle bodies and all the electronics that they house (vibration wise). But here again this is just "my" opinion.

 

[TrackAire]

At the the 2009 SEMA show I discussed this with K&N, told them my concerns, what others on this forum thought and that something is really amiss.

I haven't read their website, but they do claim to use a "horsepower under the graph" way of calculating horsepower, not just on peak figure. Their system is supposed to be explained on their website. I'll try to study what they explain on their website and see if a feeble mind like mine can get a grasp on thier concept.

I also complained that they did the run in 3rd gear....what the heck??.... Again, they expained that 3rd gear was used to give a smoother curve

Lastly, I was told this was K&N's owners car...an early 2008 that had some computer issues. The thought that maybe the car wasn't running perfect was also considered.

I'll get ahold of the guy I talked to at SEMA to see about re-running the test with a couple of other GEN IV's. To K&N's credit, they listened to my concerns, were interested in clarifying this problem and trying to figure out what is going on.

I'll see what I can do to get a re-test....if there are any stock GEN IV's in the SoCal area that would like to be used as test mules, P.M. me. I don't have any idea if K&N will do anthing to compensate you (free intake system or just free dyno time) but I'll find out. I am also thinking that the stock system is very good...but I've got to admit the K&N system does "look" pretty cool. If it can be proven to pump out more power (especially trap speed increases at the drag strip, more important than a dyno run IMHO) I would definately consider buying the setup.

Cheers,
George

 

[commonsense]

I appreciate your input and it's a good point about any ram air effect. A stationary dyno would not take that into account. Does anyone have any other reputable dyno charts for the 2008 and later engine? I'm trying to examine the horsepower/torque curves to determine the best shift points. As many of you may know, some cars will be faster if short shifted and not shifted at redline. But it depends on the horsepower plot. That's how I ended up at the K and N site.

 

[eucharistos]

At the the 2009 SEMA show I discussed this with K&N, ....
Cheers,
George

good man

 

[1BADGTS]

I appreciate your input and it's a good point about any ram air effect. A stationary dyno would not take that into account. Does anyone have any other reputable dyno charts for the 2008 and later engine? I'm trying to examine the horsepower/torque curves to determine the best shift points. As many of you may know, some cars will be faster if short shifted and not shifted at redline. But it depends on the horsepower plot. That's how I ended up at the K and N site.

I have the best possible dyno chart there is- numerious passes down the quarter mile with a trap speed of close to 129 mph in my stock 08 .Dyno numbers from chasis dynos are tools nothing more, tools that can be manipulated ect, often to suit someone that is selling somethings needs .Trap speeds are the best indicators of a cars horsepower. (You ABSOLUTELY can not bench race one dyno against another and proclaim the car with the higher number faster or a part part worth x horsepower unless you do a before and after on the same dyno with the same correction factor ect )

 

[1BADGTS]

I have the best possible dyno chart there is- numerious passes down the quarter mile with a trap speed of close to 129 mph in my stock 08 .Dyno numbers from chasis dynos are tools nothing more, tools that can be manipulated ect, often to suit someone that is selling somethings needs .Trap speeds are the best indicators of a cars horsepower. (You ABSOLUTELY can not bench race one dyno against another and proclaim the car with the higher number faster or a part part worth x horsepower unless you do a before and after on the same dyno with the same correction factor ect )

Ps let me give you a prime example take the same Gen 4 Viper the same day(90 plus degree heat ) on the same dyno .Dyno run 1 is conducted running ice cold ,dyno run 5 is conducted after many pulls. On a car making 550 to the tire dyno run 1 can be an easy 25 RWHP more than a heatsoaked dyno run 5 .Manipulation like the above is often used if someone is trying to sell something (Never once in an ad have i seen the operating temp of an engine stated ect The only thing they state is the power increase of coarse)

 

[boosted349]

i have a june 08 production date on my 08coupe. never dynoed it but i went 11.061@130mph, so it has to have at around 550hp at the wheels. completely stock no mods,stock tires 1.61 60ft

 

[redtanrt10]

TrackAire-George, the K&N looks better on their site than in person. Saw one a few weeks ago down here and it kind of looked cheap, very plastic and the red didn't match the valve covers. Don't really think it add's any HP and if you see it in person I don't think you'll feel it looks great either.

 

[1BADGTS]

i have a june 08 production date on my 08coupe. never dynoed it but i went 11.061@130mph, so it has to have at around 550hp at the wheels. completely stock no mods,stock tires 1.61 60ft

EXACTLY there is absolutely no way for one to manipulate that 130 mph trap speed (GREAT TIME,one of the best ever by the way )with a chasis dyno not only will the engine operating temp effect the number BUT so will things like tire pressure (drop rear wheel pressure lower do a pull ,then raise the pressure )amount of oil in the crankcase (do a pull a quart low and pick up a few horsepower ect ).The funny thing is there are only a handful of drivers in the country that can run a bone stock 08 on Pilots to the cars potential yet everyone wants more power.

 

[Boxer12]

I have dyno charts, but it is for a Mopar PCM with Belanger full race exhaust...also, it was not run up, then down to 4k, then back up (method for highest HP rating). I am told that 20% (some say 10, 15) HP loss is norm with stock drivetrain.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

20% is kind of high for loss - from what I've seen, it's usually more like 12-14% max loss through the drive-train.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Any dyno operator can check the drive line loss by doing a coast down rather than using generic numbers, I think you will be surprised at what you find if done correctly...

 

[Nyoka]

I appreciate your input and it's a good point about any ram air effect. A stationary dyno would not take that into account. Does anyone have any other reputable dyno charts for the 2008 and later engine? I'm trying to examine the horsepower/torque curves to determine the best shift points. As many of you may know, some cars will be faster if short shifted and not shifted at redline. But it depends on the horsepower plot. That's how I ended up at the K and N site.

Send me your pm and I'll send you the SRT team's overview of the Gen IV with all HP/Torque histories/graphs and those of prior generations. Tried to attach but too big for this site.

 

[Vic]

DC Performance did a dyno day not too long ago. Iirc the stock Gen4s were putting down something like 520 rwhp. There was a ZR1 there owned by a VCA member, (also has Viper). IDK if it was broken in yet, but it dyno'd at about 508 rwhp. (down from 638 at the crank)

 

[09 Venom]

i have a june 08 production date on my 08coupe. never dynoed it but i went 11.061@130mph, so it has to have at around 550hp at the wheels. completely stock no mods,stock tires 1.61 60ft

Do you mind explaining your launch technique?..Some people can't achieve this 60' foot with slicks on.

 

[Goehner]

Do you mind explaining your launch technique?..Some people can't achieve this 60' foot with slicks on.

I was thinking the same thing. That is pretty impressive.

 

[underpressure]

I appreciate your input and it's a good point about any ram air effect. A stationary dyno would not take that into account. Does anyone have any other reputable dyno charts for the 2008 and later engine? I'm trying to examine the horsepower/torque curves to determine the best shift points. As many of you may know, some cars will be faster if short shifted and not shifted at redline. But it depends on the horsepower plot. That's how I ended up at the K and N site.

Stock 08 SRT-10 with 4k miles ... graph is "UNCORRECTED" to take out elevation and temp correction.

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Same car headers/exhaust and factory intake... disregard baseline AFR the sniffer probe backed out during the run.

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Car was also ran on NOS let me know if you would like to see that graph ...

Enjoy

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The gains I have with the Belangers, PCM, and Corsa cat back on my car.

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Gains chart for my car same day RWHP and RWTQ numbers all are corrected at 1.15

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http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/mjorgensen_photos/Work photos/08Belanger006.jpg

 

[boosted349]

Do you mind explaining your launch technique?..Some people can't achieve this 60' foot with slicks on.

basically it is alot of trial and error (my clutch needs to be replaced) what i do is feather the gas pedal rather than hold it at a specific rpm. when it is time to go i floor the car and let the clutch up slowly (slipping the clutch badly) to avoid spinning the tires. i have gotten at least 10 passes with low 1.6 60 ft times. these times were all done at greatlakes dragway in wisconsin last august. they are a nhra track so the 11.5 rule is in effect there they ***** like crazy at me every time, until i became friends with some of the track people so they let me slide a little bit. the first clutch was the learning clutch the next one will not go so fast.

 

[1BADGTS]

basically it is alot of trial and error (my clutch needs to be replaced) what i do is feather the gas pedal rather than hold it at a specific rpm. when it is time to go i floor the car and let the clutch up slowly (slipping the clutch badly) to avoid spinning the tires. i have gotten at least 10 passes with low 1.6 60 ft times. these times were all done at greatlakes dragway in wisconsin last august. they are a nhra track so the 11.5 rule is in effect there they ***** like crazy at me every time, until i became friends with some of the track people so they let me slide a little bit. the first clutch was the learning clutch the next one will not go so fast.

Also what alot of people dont understand is how important track prep (vht ect )is on tracks that hold major NHRA events. There is a WORLD of difference in this in comparasion to some local strip in the middle of nowhere.

 

[boosted349]

Also what alot of people dont understand is how important track prep (vht ect )is on tracks that hold major NHRA events. There is a WORLD of difference in this in comparasion to some local strip in the middle of nowhere.

actually this track does not hold any major events. it IS in the middle of nowhere among farmland, and it was 38 degrees when i ran those 60ft times. i dont think i will run any faster 60ft times even when it gets warmer though. i think that is about for that car. i can definitly see a high 1.5 at some point. but with alot of luck. i was only .02 from a 1.5. stock ps2 with 40lb of air. also if you guys heard of ranger he ran a 11.4 @ 129mph at this track with a 09 zr1 with drag radials. 1.5? 60ft i think. i would love to have a zr1 myself but for the money i will stick to the viper. the zr1 can be faster with the right driver (it is lighter and more powerful) but i have not seen one run faster than me in my stock 08 viper 11.0 @ 131mph at the same track. and there has been about 6 of them there that i am aware of 11.3 @130 is the fastest. i dont think that i am the greatest driver in the country nor am i stating that, but i think i can get a zr1 in the 10s within a few passes. by the way i have over 150 passes on my 08 cpe. you can check out the track at greatlakesdragaway.com go to ores action photography and you will find my car in there doing john force burnouts. black 08 cpe. november 28 09 was a day that i ran 1.6 60fts so check that date in the picture book.

 

[boosted349]

heres a few pics

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[1BADGTS]

actually this track does not hold any major events. it IS in the middle of nowhere among farmland, and it was 38 degrees when i ran those 60ft times. i dont think i will run any faster 60ft times even when it gets warmer though. i think that is about for that car. i can definitly see a high 1.5 at some point. but with alot of luck. i was only .02 from a 1.5. stock ps2 with 40lb of air. also if you guys heard of ranger he ran a 11.4 @ 129mph at this track with a 09 zr1 with drag radials. 1.5? 60ft i think. i would love to have a zr1 myself but for the money i will stick to the viper. the zr1 can be faster with the right driver (it is lighter and more powerful) but i have not seen one run faster than me in my stock 08 viper 11.0 @ 131mph at the same track. and there has been about 6 of them there that i am aware of 11.3 @130 is the fastest. i dont think that i am the greatest driver in the country nor am i stating that, but i think i can get a zr1 in the 10s within a few passes. by the way i have over 150 passes on my 08 cpe. you can check out the track at greatlakesdragaway.com go to ores action photography and you will find my car in there doing john force burnouts. black 08 cpe. november 28 09 was a day that i ran 1.6 60fts so check that date in the picture book.

Either way though to pop 1.6 sixty foot times the track (any track) still must be in GREAT SHAPE ) The 38 degree weather adds power but kills traction..Your times are at the top of the heap only Jamie (Furman )has run faster in a stock Viper on Pilots .Whatever your doing keep it up as sooner or later a 10 second run will happen.

 

[Twister]

hey boosted..im a lil confused..did you hit 130 mph or 131 mph? would love to see a timeslip if you have one..Not doubting you or anything..I,m a believer that in the right weather a stock 08 viper can hit 132 mph

 

[TrackAire]

Boosted,

You list 150 runs. How many runs have you been able to get on your stock PS2's? Did you have to replace them and with how many runs on them?

Have you found the PS2's to have a max heat cycle life and eventually not hook up even though they still have tread left?

When you do a burn out, do you go through the water box and how long do you burn them for?

Awesome times, I'm still working on getting under 1.8 seconds 60 ft times (with a whopping 15 runs under my belt)

Cheers,
George