V 10 MAFIA
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Which set of headers are good quality and produce the most H/P?
Which Headers to go with Belanger, SVS or B&B
- Thread starter V 10 MAFIA
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REDSLED
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PhoenixGTS
Enthusiast
Start by asking yourself som basic question:
1) what material do you want them made out of? B&B and SVS are made from 304 stainless. This material is brittle which means it will almost assuredly crack or move around quite a bit during its lifetime. And the "stainless" will turn purple from heat about 5 minutes after your start the car and look bad until you take them off and polish them (unless you have them ceramic coated but the coating does not stick particularly well to the 304 stainless). The Belangers are made out of ceramic coated aluminized steel which is much more flexible so you have less concern about cracking and movement. The ceramic coating sticks well to the aluminized and the headers will be silver (not necessarily shiny) for a long time if you do not wrap them. It is claimed that the aluminized runs much cooler under-hood temps than the stainless. I have no idea.
2) do you want a 5 into 1, or a tri-y with step-down collection system? The Belanger has three tubes on each side going to a mid collector with the other two tubes going to a separate mid collector, and then those two mid collectors go to the final collector. Inside the final collector is something called a "pickle" which is a tube in the center of the merge that effectively takes up space. All this supposedly helps keep exhaust gas velocity high and helps bottom end. Here is a picture of the Belangers. You can just see the tip of the pickle:
[image]
http://secureprocessing.net/PartsRack/WebShop/images/ProductImages/Exhaust/Belanger_SRT1.jpg[/image]
Both the B&B and SVS are 5 into 1 designs, which might be better for top end, especially given how short the runners are. Here is a picture I found of the SVS:
Note how short the runners are (you can get a sense of distance by noting where the turn into the sill is). Because the Belangers have a much smaller final collector they can reach farther past the frame which means the final collector is right up to the turn into the sill. It is kind of hard to see, but here is a picture of the Belangers as they go into the sill:
3) what kind of construction do you want? You can see from the shot above that the SVS units use slip fits to join the collector to the tubes (I think the B&B slip-fits earlier, but I am not sure, but if not, how in the heck do you get them in). The Belanger is all bolted flanges, I think the B&B uses a flex section after the collector (neither the Belangers nor SVS use a flex section). The SVS and B&B have individual flanges for each exhaust port, whereas the Belangers have a single long flange that is slit into a three and two port division (I'm guessing the stainless B&B and SVS need to keep them separate to allow for installation of the slip fits).
4) what kind of company do you want to buy from? I know nothing about SVS, but even though the Belanger and B&B factories are about a mile apart, they are worlds away. Belangers is a "mom & pop" type small shop with family including the dogs. B&B is in about a 100,000 squre foot building with somewhere around 100 employees. If you call Belangers, someone named Belanger answers the phone. Billy does not answer the phone (although they do have good customer service).
5) are you going to install them yourself? Hopefully someone will chime in about how hard it is to install each system, but I am sure they are very different installs. I would link you to a mini-review claiming the Belangers are an easier install due to the smaller final collector, but it is on the "other" forum so no can do.
Hope that helps. Just stuff I have learned while learning about my car.
1) what material do you want them made out of? B&B and SVS are made from 304 stainless. This material is brittle which means it will almost assuredly crack or move around quite a bit during its lifetime. And the "stainless" will turn purple from heat about 5 minutes after your start the car and look bad until you take them off and polish them (unless you have them ceramic coated but the coating does not stick particularly well to the 304 stainless). The Belangers are made out of ceramic coated aluminized steel which is much more flexible so you have less concern about cracking and movement. The ceramic coating sticks well to the aluminized and the headers will be silver (not necessarily shiny) for a long time if you do not wrap them. It is claimed that the aluminized runs much cooler under-hood temps than the stainless. I have no idea.
2) do you want a 5 into 1, or a tri-y with step-down collection system? The Belanger has three tubes on each side going to a mid collector with the other two tubes going to a separate mid collector, and then those two mid collectors go to the final collector. Inside the final collector is something called a "pickle" which is a tube in the center of the merge that effectively takes up space. All this supposedly helps keep exhaust gas velocity high and helps bottom end. Here is a picture of the Belangers. You can just see the tip of the pickle:
[image]
http://secureprocessing.net/PartsRack/WebShop/images/ProductImages/Exhaust/Belanger_SRT1.jpg[/image]
Both the B&B and SVS are 5 into 1 designs, which might be better for top end, especially given how short the runners are. Here is a picture I found of the SVS:
You must be registered for see images
Note how short the runners are (you can get a sense of distance by noting where the turn into the sill is). Because the Belangers have a much smaller final collector they can reach farther past the frame which means the final collector is right up to the turn into the sill. It is kind of hard to see, but here is a picture of the Belangers as they go into the sill:
You must be registered for see images
3) what kind of construction do you want? You can see from the shot above that the SVS units use slip fits to join the collector to the tubes (I think the B&B slip-fits earlier, but I am not sure, but if not, how in the heck do you get them in). The Belanger is all bolted flanges, I think the B&B uses a flex section after the collector (neither the Belangers nor SVS use a flex section). The SVS and B&B have individual flanges for each exhaust port, whereas the Belangers have a single long flange that is slit into a three and two port division (I'm guessing the stainless B&B and SVS need to keep them separate to allow for installation of the slip fits).
4) what kind of company do you want to buy from? I know nothing about SVS, but even though the Belanger and B&B factories are about a mile apart, they are worlds away. Belangers is a "mom & pop" type small shop with family including the dogs. B&B is in about a 100,000 squre foot building with somewhere around 100 employees. If you call Belangers, someone named Belanger answers the phone. Billy does not answer the phone (although they do have good customer service).
5) are you going to install them yourself? Hopefully someone will chime in about how hard it is to install each system, but I am sure they are very different installs. I would link you to a mini-review claiming the Belangers are an easier install due to the smaller final collector, but it is on the "other" forum so no can do.
Hope that helps. Just stuff I have learned while learning about my car.
Jerry Colpitts
Enthusiast
Hey V 10 i have B & B with my supercharger and roe high flow cats and the corsa cat back exhaust. I think everyone chooses a brand by what there tuner recomends for there particular set up. or what someone else recomends because that is what they have and like it. i have b & b but would have no problem with belanger or svs great headers. but sean roe carries b & b and recomends them with his blower so i went with that and they flow just fine. 
99 R/T 10
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V 10 MAFIA
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You guys are the best when it comes to help, I want to especially thank Phoenix for his time, photos, and info.
I will take everyones advice into great consideration.
Thanks again.
Charlie
I will take everyones advice into great consideration.
Thanks again.
Charlie
Simms
Enthusiast
My B&B's were very easy to install, the fit and quality was great, and the sound is awesome. I did coat them with Jet-Hot for added protection and reused the stock heat sheilds. My B&B's had no flex piece though.
PhoenixGTS
Enthusiast
Thanks for clarifying that the B&B do not use a flex section. That means that as far as I have heard, only the Edelbrocks use a flex section. Do the B&Bs use a slip fit? If so where are the joints? Any leaking?
Jerry Scott[CO]
Viper Owner
Any system that has slip joints will slightly leak and will gradually get worse. I would recommend the B&Bs with the 2000 deg. F. JetHot coating. This is what I have and they have been great. I used a NAPA graphite and steel gasket on the two bolt flanges and a solid copper flange on the three bolt flange. Use Permatex Copper UltraSeal on the gaskets.
I have installed each of the affore mentioned headers, and from an installation standpoint, the Belangers are vastly more mechanic friendly. The others are a great deal more difficult to install for reasons from impossible header bolts to reach to getting all of the tubes into the collectors smoothly and correctly. I also have had zero complaints from the belangers of leaks. I have always had complaints with the others for leaks, especially when cold. The Belangers also have a much cleaner look in the engine compartment and have never melted a heater box or heater hose when installed properly. The tri-flange system on the Belangers has always been much more forgiving and yes they do have a very distinct sound. I have also never seen a Belanger system that was not 100% perfectly lined up in the sills when installed properly, which as I have already said is vastly more simple. And no I do not work for Belanger.
Re: JERRY, B&B makes both tri-Y and 5 into 1
JERRY,
Where have you been? Glad to see you putting some of your tech insights here again. We need some new Tips from you to put in the Illustrated Uprades.
You have the B&B tri-y header (Belanger style but in SS), don't you?
JERRY,
Where have you been? Glad to see you putting some of your tech insights here again. We need some new Tips from you to put in the Illustrated Uprades.
You have the B&B tri-y header (Belanger style but in SS), don't you?
V 10 MAFIA
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Re: JERRY, B&B makes both tri-Y and 5 into 1
From a sound perspective what do you guys find different in the pitch between the Belanger and B&B? Which is acoustically more appealing to listen to with high flow cats?
From a sound perspective what do you guys find different in the pitch between the Belanger and B&B? Which is acoustically more appealing to listen to with high flow cats?
Tom Lau
Enthusiast
Re: JERRY, B&B makes both tri-Y and 5 into 1
Wow, I am very impressed with the knowledge of the members of this club, I am also equally impressed by the willingness to share the info.
Would anybody know what difference in sound if I remove any of the mufflers in my Corsa Cat-Back? I just received the RT Cats from Jon B, can't wait to install. Headers will be my next step. I am looking for the deepest sounding exhaust system. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Wow, I am very impressed with the knowledge of the members of this club, I am also equally impressed by the willingness to share the info.
Would anybody know what difference in sound if I remove any of the mufflers in my Corsa Cat-Back? I just received the RT Cats from Jon B, can't wait to install. Headers will be my next step. I am looking for the deepest sounding exhaust system. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Re: JERRY, B&B makes both tri-Y and 5 into 1
Tom,
sound is so subjective but this I know -- There's no Viper exhaust that will give a Big Block V-8 sound.
The GTS can get some drone from certain exhausts. Loud is fine, but the drone is a pain.
Get to some local events and take a listen for yourself .. that's cheaper than trial & try again.
Tom,
sound is so subjective but this I know -- There's no Viper exhaust that will give a Big Block V-8 sound.
The GTS can get some drone from certain exhausts. Loud is fine, but the drone is a pain.
Get to some local events and take a listen for yourself .. that's cheaper than trial & try again.
Re: JERRY, B&B makes both tri-Y and 5 into 1
Tom,
I have a Borla cat back and it gives a nice, throaty, deep rumble. I'm having Belanger 3" headers and RT hi-flo metallic cats installed at the moment. When it's done (and when I get back to the States to hear it for myself) I'll report on the sound quality.
Tom,
I have a Borla cat back and it gives a nice, throaty, deep rumble. I'm having Belanger 3" headers and RT hi-flo metallic cats installed at the moment. When it's done (and when I get back to the States to hear it for myself) I'll report on the sound quality.
Tom Lau
Enthusiast
Re: JERRY, B&B makes both tri-Y and 5 into 1
Guys,
Thanks for all the help.
I chose the Corsa b/c there is no drone like the Borla. I was just wondering if anybody else has ever removed the rear mufflers on the Corsa system. So far I've heard so many positive comments about the Belanger Headers. I'll decide on the headers after I hear it in person. I figured that the cats were a "must have" for heat reduction in the side sills. Besides my favorite passengers are my wife and my kids.
By the way, V 10 Mafia, thanks for the invite. I am definitely looking forward to meeting you and the rest of the guys.
Guys,
Thanks for all the help.
I chose the Corsa b/c there is no drone like the Borla. I was just wondering if anybody else has ever removed the rear mufflers on the Corsa system. So far I've heard so many positive comments about the Belanger Headers. I'll decide on the headers after I hear it in person. I figured that the cats were a "must have" for heat reduction in the side sills. Besides my favorite passengers are my wife and my kids.
By the way, V 10 Mafia, thanks for the invite. I am definitely looking forward to meeting you and the rest of the guys.
2MANYTOYS
Enthusiast
Re: JERRY, B&B makes both tri-Y and 5 into 1
I like the balengers best. Sound is awesome.
I like the balengers best. Sound is awesome.
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