Which is better 1000HP SC or TT

[ElDiablo Viper]

Now we see cars with 1000HP that can be driven on the street. Which setup can be more reliable for occasional road racing and street driving SC or TT. I think that you can have more problems with SC and belt slipping. Is this true?

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Now we see cars with 1000HP that can be driven on the street. Which setup can be more reliable for occasional road racing and street driving SC or TT. I think that you can have more problems with SC and belt slipping. Is this true?

ElDiablo, If the SC belt and tensioner system is engineered and designed properly, there should be no belt slippage, I know some early supercharger tuners had some problems with cog belts slipping/breaking apart/etc....

I think either SC or turbo, if the cooling physics have been worked out, should be fine. I know that turbos generate more heat. I will let you know how well my car does cooling-wise on the roadcourse when I get it back from Jason Heffner. I think that a SC car should be easier to drive on a roadcourse as the power from boost has more linear correlation to RPM than a turbo would.

 

[Gerald]

If a S/C car breaks down, you need a 20 dollar belt.. If a turbo goes, your I'm sure someone is in it for a lot more.. I just replaced a belt because I overtightened my old one. Total cost, about 24 bucks at NAPA..


Gerald

 

[Torquemonster]

In theory:

For heavy throttle driving I'd agree that the SC cars will be more progressive in their power delivery as boost is relative to rpm not load.

In a turbo car, boost is proportional to load and rpms only have a secondary impact on that... because of this - a heavy foot can go from zero boost to full boost in a nano-second which could only be done in a SC car by wheelspin. But at 1000hp we are splitting hairs - 1000hp is 1000hp... neither could be stomped on at any speed under 120mph on the street.

Therefore - in practice I guess its what you prefer... with this one observation:

In a manual trans however like the Viper - a turbo offers the ability to drive very fast on vacuum and regulate the boost with your right foot. This provides the disciplined driver with the ability to dial in as much power as they need. In a SC car this will NOT be as easy - if you are up to rpms where full boost is made - it is right there every prod of the throttle - so in partial throttle cases - the turbo car will be far more precise and manageable IMHO - provided you run via a good vacuum/boost guage that is highly visible while driving.

If you run an auto trans - forget TT for street driving - it will kill you at 1000hp if you get caught in the wet. You cannot regulate the boost unless you feather and I mean FEATHER the throttle - the converter loads the engine and the slightest pressure will boost the engine and in the wet it will spin you around while you feel (with your throttle) that you are nursing it. TT and auto is track only IMHO at 1000hp. You'll need huge balls and no brains.

As for reliability - that comes down to the quality of the installation, engine job etc - and the top tuners of TT and SC all produce great products. So reliability should not be an issue with either.

A good turbo will outlast the engine! Look at the big rigs that go for 750,000 miles! I've done literally hundreds of thousands of miles in turbocharged cars - only ever had one failure and that was at over 200,000km (125,00 miles) in a highly stressed 1 litre 3 cylinder pocket rocket (that was supposed to have had new seals at 100,000km and I didn't do it).... oh make that 2 - I got a turbo reconditioned once and they made a bad job and it blew the oil seal on the first big trip - no fault of the turbo. My experience with turbos is overwhelmingly - they drive like Toyota's for dependability - just a lot faster!

Which would I prefer - turbo in theory - but I'd want to drive both and I may well go for SC after that - it comes down to what feels better for you.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

To keep it simple,related to the Viper it comes down to tuneable reliability and power,to things until not to long ago never went hand in hand.S.C cars it takes H.P to make H.P, not a lot but never the less it does as for turbo you are using H.P that has already been used.so in general i would tend to lean towards the turbo side.That being said the viper is a different animal that has always had cooling issues.Enter reliability,while you can make gobs High end H.P with turbo,at what cost,HEAT.until that issue has been completly worked out(which i am sure is already in the cards.Reliable,tunable,drivable H.P in the viper in my book goes to the Supercharged cars.........for now

 

[1TONY1]

If a S/C car breaks down, you need a 20 dollar belt.. If a turbo goes, your I'm sure someone is in it for a lot more.. I just replaced a belt because I overtightened my old one. Total cost, about 24 bucks at NAPA..


Gerald

You also have bearings in a centrifical s/c and it can eat itself just like a turbo. I know this first hand. Which is better....the debate has been going on for years and will never end. Personal preference.

 

[Tom Welch]

If we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs, IF we had some eggs........LOL

 

[Paolo Castellano]

In theory:

For heavy throttle driving I'd agree that the SC cars will be more progressive in their power delivery as boost is relative to rpm not load.

In a turbo car, boost is proportional to load and rpms only have a secondary impact on that... because of this - a heavy foot can go from zero boost to full boost in a nano-second which could only be done in a SC car by wheelspin. But at 1000hp we are splitting hairs - 1000hp is 1000hp... neither could be stomped on at any speed under 120mph on the street.

Therefore - in practice I guess its what you prefer... with this one observation:

In a manual trans however like the Viper - a turbo offers the ability to drive very fast on vacuum and regulate the boost with your right foot. This provides the disciplined driver with the ability to dial in as much power as they need. In a SC car this will NOT be as easy - if you are up to rpms where full boost is made - it is right there every prod of the throttle - so in partial throttle cases - the turbo car will be far more precise and manageable IMHO - provided you run via a good vacuum/boost guage that is highly visible while driving.

Torquemonster, In the case of being in the full boost range with the supercharger, I would just use my special transfer case gear splitter to drop the rpm's to the point where I would have a larger margin for throttle modulation with respect to boost.

P.S. I am waiting for this piece from the James Bond special development team that will be sponsoring my car in the near future!

 

[Gerald]

what about a N/A car with a Supercharger running at 10lbs of boost, intercooled, with a 150HP shot of Nitrous and Turbo charged at 12 PSI?

 

[Tom Welch]

Gerald,

That would be Ham, Eggs, and Toast!

LOL

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

My biggest turn-off with turbos is all that plumbing is gonna be a b*tch to work on, and if your pushing 1,000hp you're gonna be working on it.

 

[CoryMac]

Gerald,

That would be Ham, Eggs, and Toast!

LOL

I think it would just be toast!

 

[Torquemonster]

Sunny side up for me thanks

Refillable coffee?

Paolo - gear splitter/variable blower reduction controlled from in car and instantly able to shift it back to full speed? Now THERE'S an idea for a patent!

Vipermed - agreed heat is an issue and turbos are hotter than superchargers for obvious reasons - but that does not mean engine temps are hotter between the two. It does mean more care is needed re cooling - esp. intercooling becomes more important for turbos and also shielding. But if done right engine operating temps are no different to normal engines.... just don't go lifting the hood and lean on one of those hair driers by mistake

The Viper is a good choice for boost because of the room up front of the engine - it enables you to mount blowers or turbos away from the block and intake.... a luxury many factory turbo cars do not have! A cooling system like Paolo has on his Viper I'd expect to keep motor nice and cool.

re low end torque - a turbo will excell here - look at Bens S600 - max torque at 1900rpm - but small turbos make more heat than big ones - top end power setups run cooler - so Gerald - you are right - use NOS to get some torque off the line - afterall the Viper is a bit shy there compared to say a Vette ...then SC for bottom end/mid-range, then have big turbo's coming in for top end where they can run much cooler as they do not need to spool as quickly - or flick the NOS again to boost staright away - its all been done! But I wouldn't I know what it'd be like and don't fancy a near death experience everytime I got on it..... but that's just me

Course you could always just run a 25psi TT setup - to behave normal most of the time then when you hit it - it's winds up then goes from 350hp at 3000rpm to 1600+hp in a violent explosion of power that will require nothing short of Funny Car slicks to stick... did you say no thanks?

 

[Miles B]

In theory:
If you run an auto trans - forget TT for street driving - it will kill you at 1000hp if you get caught in the wet. You cannot regulate the boost unless you feather and I mean FEATHER the throttle - the converter loads the engine and the slightest pressure will boost the engine and in the wet it will spin you around while you feel (with your throttle) that you are nursing it. TT and auto is track only IMHO at 1000hp. You'll need huge balls and no brains.

Gotta disagree here. I have driven some high power turbo auto cars, and if you didn't floor it, they didn't boost - AT ALL. Yeah, the converter would load the engine a little, and a little boost would be produced (which would be unwelcome in a Viper in the wet)... except for the fact that the boost controller sees the partial throttle and doesn't allow the turbo to produce any usable boost. Throttle almost shut = target boost 0psi = wastegate wide open = turbine not spinning quick enough to produce any boost.

The same can be done with a boost controller operating a wastegate after the supercharger. Just get a boost controller that looks at throttle position to choose a target boost.