Who is at fault? DealerA, DealerB, or Buyer?

[Joseph Dell]

The following occurred in the past couple of weeks. The issue is unresolved at the moment so named are changed to protect the dealerships. Once the issue is dead, names may be revealed.

Let's say that:

A person purchases an '06 viper with 10k miles on it from Dealership A. The car was represented as being stock with a MOPAR exhaust. That person trades it in at Dealership B on a new '08.

After the deal is 100% done, Dealership B calls back. Apparently the car traded in had a MOPAR RACE computer in it along with no CATS and no O2 Sensors in the rear! Dealership B is pissed b/c they feel that the car was misrepresented and it isn't easy to get a stock computer for an '06. Further, they feel that they can't sell it due to the modifications.

The owner of the car had no knowledge of the computer, cat, or o2 modifications. But that owner doesn't want to have shafted anyone. So that owner wants to try to fix things.

So here are the questions:

1 - Can Dealership A be sued for having sold a late-model vehicle with the pollution controls removed?

2 - Is Dealership B screwed because they took a car as-is without knowing about the mods?

Dealership B would like the stock parts so that the vehicle can be sold as a stocker. There was some hope that Dealership A might 'man-up' and provide the parts... but that is yet to be seen.

What do y'all think about this? Who is as fault, and who is to blame? And most importantly, what (if anything) should be done to fix the situation?

JD

 

[musicncars]

I would say that dealer B would be stuck holding the bag. dealer either did not know, therefore they told you that it was stock, making you believe that it was stock, which neither checked, you nor dealer A. let this be a lesson, before you take someones word on it being a stock car, have it inspected first. my .02

 

[InjectTheVenom]

The person who traded in the car can not be blamed as it was Dealership A's responsability to give a FULL and TRUE list of modifications, so the only one who should get the blame, fault and everything is Dealership A. There is such a thing as acting on good faith when entering a dealership that seems reputable.
Dealership B is as screwed as the person in question because both did not have any knowledge about this misrepresentation, so they should team up and both go after Dealership A to make things right.

 

[Joseph Dell]

I like the idea of going after dealership A. Not only are they a dodge dealership but let's just say that some people weren't surprised that this _could_ have happened from them.

the court of public opinion will weigh in, i'm sure. but the end goal here is to make it right.

The other item that i'm specifically interested in is whether a dealership can be held liable for selling a vehicle that has bypassed pollution controls. That would be a bad thing, yah?

 

[InjectTheVenom]

The other item that i'm specifically interested in is whether a dealership can be held liable for selling a vehicle that has bypassed pollution controls. That would be a bad thing, yah?

Depends on when it was last inspected, if they sold it as freshly inspected the customer has a solid reason to give them hell. I don't know how it goes in the U.S. , but over here some people change their exhausts back to stock just to pass the yearly emissions inspection.
Dealership A probably took the vehicle in trade on good faith thinking that the customer gave a good representation of the car, so I would not be TOO hard when going after them.

 

[Jim Wilson]

In a twisted way, I think this is great! It's usually the dealerships that sell a car to someone, then the new owner has problems, and the dealership tell's you it's not their problem; you bought a used vehicle and we had no knowledge of these issues.

Screw Dealership B, it's probably karma payback!

 

[dave6666]

Although the individual selling and or trading the car has some certain obligations to be truthful about the vehicle, it is also the responsibility of the dealerships to investigate and confirm the claims and statements made about the car by the owner(s).

Dealer "A" could have gotten screwed by the initial trade in, but should have looked the car over. It ain't like this is a Taurus. It's a sports car that is "mod friendly."

Dealer "B" should have looked the car over too. It ain't like this is a Taurus...

Did the DRB scan tool pick up the PCM change?

 

[silversrt]

The real answer is Dealership B is left with the bill. First and foremost how do we know that the individual purchasing the car from Dealer A didnt do the mods himself? Dealership A will simply say it was stock when they sold it and the individual claims to have no knowledge. Either way I dont see it as a big deal regardless.

All dealership B has to do is put some cats in anyways. Dont think the race computer will be an issue since it doesnt read rear 02 values anyways. So guess what.... the car will never read a bad O2 sensor, so what....If dealership B puts cats in I think they would be OK.

Was car sold "AS IS" to dealership B???

I sold a catless car to a dealership but disclosed it in writing, sold it as is, and sent them the cats if they wanted to put them back on. I just dont see the big deal in it all.

 

[Viper ACR Lover 02]

If dealership B took the car "as is" and did not inspect it prior to taking the car in the transaction assuming they had the opportunity to prior to acceptance for value on the new '08, they might have to swallow the loss (hypothetically speaking). There are other things that have to be accounted for as well. That *****.

 

[redtanrt10]

this stuff happens all the time in the car business. Dealer "B" should have looked at the car better before putting $$'s into the trade. He's putting $40-$50-$60K into a car that has a reputation for being driven hard and modified, he sells these cars and has all the computer equipment, how did they miss this?? First recourse is to the person who traded it. He can ask you to fix it and this is America, he could threaten to sue you but that doesn't mean he would win. What did you sign and disclose on the forms for the trade? did it say as-is or ? You assume dealer "A" knew this stuff was missing. Why? Is he a Dodge dealer with equipment like dealer "B" and should have checked it better? Or, did somone tell you? What you didn't say in your note is how much time elasped from the purchase to the trade? If it was months then dealer "B" might also assume that the customer did the work and didn't disclose.

Dealer "B" made a $500-$1,000 mistake on the trade. He can get a computer for $300 plus and can find used cats for around that price too. then he can sell the mopar computer on e-bay and recoup his internal labor to instal the cats and computer.

Look at what you signed on the trade, if there is no recourse to you, tell him your story and say sorry and you didn't know and move on.

 

[Boxer12]

Caveat emptor= "let the buyer beware." Used car sales are typically on an 'as is' basis. Look at the bill of sale, and the advertising to see if it was otherwise. Look up local laws to see if there is a breach of warranty of 'fitness for particular purpose' that applies to used goods (state law). However, how can you prove that the car wasn't modded while in your hands? The only way you can prove when it was modded is if it was done at a shop that kept records, but even then it is probably an 'as is' sale. Dealer B will be stuck wholesaling the car and won't get their expected profit. No big deal. It will go to another customer who will be clueless in the end unless they have emissions testing.

 

[plumcrazy]

what boxer said. BUYER BEWARE and a dealership "should" know how to check out a car.

dealership B....LOSES

 

[Joseph Dell]

Unless (as I was just informed) Dealership B has a section in the trade-in paperwork that says that all emissions equipment and safety equipment have not been altered or removed, and I will pay to repair or replace these items if they are missing or do not work.

There is no such language in the original bill of sale referring to the presence of emissions or safety equipment in the car at the time of the initial sale.

Looks like person getting screwed my be a local VCA member!

Does anyone have a set of Cats off of an SRT that they were going to throw out? We may be able to help this VCA member yet!

 

[plumcrazy]

i bet DLM has a set of cats he can sell cheap. ask him.

i hope this is a NJ dealer.....

 

[Coloviper]

Since you purchased the car from Dealership A, with no complaints etc. and then sold it (traded it) to Dealership B, there is absolutley NO proof of the condition of the car at the time it changed hands from Dealership A to you, unless it was disclosed in the sales paperwork. If sold as-is, you assumed the condition of the car at that point and who added the parts is irrelevant. It is illegal to sell a car from the dealership WITHOUT cats, however when you bought it from them and then sold it, you can NOT prove the car came to you without CATS.

The trade from you to Dealership B, well the Dealership B has a responsibility to check out your car fully before trade. You said it had a Mopar exhaust on and that was it. Turns out it had more.

Dealership B is left holding the bag because they did not do their due dilegence on the car before buying it from you and assuming the responsibility, just as you did from Dealership A.

My suggestion is, if you want to keep the piece with this dealership and are willing to put a little money forth, offer to pick up the tab for the cats and o2 sensors only. They can put them on at their cost. The computer, well how would anyone know that. I am sure they can sell the mopar race computer to one of their owners so there is value there.

I feel if you offer than, it keeps it simple and the lawyers out. Soon asyou involve the lawyers, everyone loses something and the lawyers gain. Not worth it. Again, cats are something very visual that should have been caught by you AND the dealership. Sounds fair to me.

 

[Slypopsracing]

I have a brand new Dodge exhaust(without cats) and a slightly used Dodge computer in the garage and this is the very reason I haven t installed them. Plus my Dodge warranty goes to 2011 (04).My 3 sons are upset but just to many twists....

 

[viperchick12]

This is GREAT! I'm a Dodge dealer myself and my opinion is...

50% Dealership A's Fault (maybe they mis-represented the car, maybe they really didn't know, but they should have noticed this when servicing the car before delivery - assuming they did that - )

50% Dealership B's Fault (it is there responsibility to CHECK the vehicle before trading)

0% Customer's Fault (if he honestly did not find out the mods were there before trading)

 

[vinny2]

the customer had no idea that the car did not have these parts, and had a race computer, when he bought it used from dealership A. Dealership B took the car on trade, sight unseen. What was known was disclosed by seller. again, the car was bought used, and WHAT WAS KNOWN, was disclosed.
Dealership A also sold the buyer an extended warranty on the used car, which appears to have been a "mistake" since the car would not qualify for an extended warranty with the factory computer removed.
The buyer and Dealership B have both taken the high road, reached an amicable solution, and will move on with life. Dealership A, will be notified about the entire incident, and if they take the high road, they will not be identified. If they don't, well............everyone here will know who it is.

 

[plumcrazy]

if the car had a twin turbo and the owner didnt know it, would dealership B tell him or be pissed THEN ?...i wonder.

if the owner did it on purpose, id say he was WRONG. but if not, dealership B is SOL

 

[99 R/T 10]

eBay Motors: DODGE VIPER ECM FOR 2006 SRT CAR (item 190230701634 end time Jun-25-08 07:54:35 PDT)

I BET you could get this one for $100.

 

[vinny2]

i'm told that the computer installed from the factory is tied to the vin, so if the numbers don't match, the warranty is void. yes?

 

[TBarrow]

I have the Race computer and when it was being emission tested it showed no cats no O2 sensors no evap canister and something else. I was told that it was not progamed for those items as they are not on the Comp Coupe. I put the factory computer in and passed everything.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

i'm told that the computer installed from the factory is tied to the vin, so if the numbers don't match, the warranty is void. yes?

That is correct..