Who knows how to read plugs???

[viperdoctor]

I have a 2001 GTS with 9000 miles on it already (long story, but lots of highway miles) and I start getting a check engine light.

The car seems to idle and run strong.

So I buy the Autoxray scanner and it tells me I have multiple engine misfires.

After a post, I take JonB's advice and order new plugs and wires.

As I am changing the left bank plugs, they look good/great. There are little deposits, a good burning look, and a perfect gap. I'm thinking it's probably a waste to be changing these plugs, but then again I don't mind.

Then I change the right bank plugs and WOW! It's amazing to me the car runs at all. Take a look at these photos:

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With the new plugs, the only difference I can tell in the car is that it runs much smoother at 55-70mph in 6th gear. Before it would surge in this RPM range.

So the real question is: What is wrong with the right bank of cylinders? Bad ignition, bad fuel mixture, oil or coolant leaking into the cylinders???

I tend to think it is something wrong with the fuel or ignition because it's all 5 of the right cylinder bank that is affected.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Double Venom]

Viperdoctor,
I would seriously head to the nearest dealership. That much damage would seem to also indicate head damage, especially since they are aluminum heads.

Are the pedestals, tips actually melted, or is it deposits?

Please post what you find out.

DV

 

[Tom Welch]

My first thought was overheating, but after close inspection of the pics I noticed that the electrode strap was not deteriorated but covered with ash.

This is known as Oil crustation. You may want to take a look at the air filters and throttle body venturies for evidence of excessive oil entering into the intake manifold.

Air entering from the left side throttle body feeds the right hand bank of cylinders for the most part........the manifold is derrived from a very well but old chrysler design called the "crossram". Long runners mean good torque and low end power.

Oil is scavenged from the valve covers, through the airbox and can get into the intake, a little is normal, yours looks excessive for sure.

What type of driving do you do? Lots of stop and go can aggravate this. With oil encrusting and sudden burst of power as in stop and go hard driving you can also aggravate things further by the loose particles getting stuck in the gap which is called "gap bridging".

I suggest checking the following;

oil level
air filters for evidence of oil contamination
throttle bodies for the same

Good luck with your search. Im sure other opinions will arise as im not exact about what I see with your plugs(one plug looks broken around the porclein which would possibly indicate a different scenerio but I can't tell for sure). Someone though will send you on the correct path to fixing your dilema.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[viperdoctor]

Many thanks for your replies!

DV: Yes, everything on the right bank plugs appear to be just deposits. No signs of melting or deterioration. There's also a good amount of crusty, oily, black deposits on the base of the plugs which would support Tom's comments.

Tom: I just replaced both filters with K&N's and tubes. The original paper filters looked very clean and identical to each other.

Most of the 9000 miles has been open country driving. I do, every now and then, get stuck in stop and go driving, but not often by any measure.

I do not think any of the insulators are damaged; however, 2 of the plugs had the hard deposit growths broken off (1 by accident and 1 by my nin-com-poop brother that did the "hey what's this" thing before I could take a picture). This explains the broken look.

Also, I haven't done a very good job of monitoring the oil level versus mileage, but it does seem that the car burned a lot of oil for the first 5000 or so miles. Recently it does not seem to burn very much oil at all. I need to do a better job recording the oil usage in the future.

Therefore, I am thinking it's possible that the engine has finally broken in and this problem may not continue. Wishful thinking, mostlikely. I'll have to pull the plugs regularly to check.

Thanks again!

 

[Tom Sessions]

viper doctor,What it looks like you have going on is a serious cause of lack of valve stem sealidus.Get in touch with your vipertech and they will need to talk to the star center who in turn will get the engine warranty center involved.I had a 00 RT in the shop last week with hi oil consumption and found no stem seals on the right head.Car runs fine just using oil and the plugs looked the same as yours.The fix is installing a new set of stem seals which can be done in house instead if sending your motor out for repairs.So this is not a major illness just more like a small cold easly fixed.I will be fixing my customers later this week I will let you know how it comes out.

 

[viperdoctor]

Thanks Rick and Tom for your replies! I will check into both possibilities and report back.

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Sessions:
viper doctor,What it looks like you have going on is a serious cause of lack of valve stem sealidus.Get in touch with your vipertech and they will need to talk to the star center who in turn will get the engine warranty center involved.I had a 00 RT in the shop last week with hi oil consumption and found no stem seals on the right head.Car runs fine just using oil and the plugs looked the same as yours.The fix is installing a new set of stem seals which can be done in house instead if sending your motor out for repairs.So this is not a major illness just more like a small cold easly fixed.I will be fixing my customers later this week I will let you know how it comes out.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Bingo Tom!

I have seen the same results from worn or simply forgotten to install valve seals. Great post!

Good luck and keep us posted,
Doug

 

[Mike Adams]

Do you have any modifications done to the car ?

 

[viperdoctor]

No, the car is bone stock except for the just added tubes and K&N's. All 9000 miles prior to pulling the plugs were done with the original filter and tubes.

Thanks for all replies!

 

[TacDoc]

Dan, has this issue of missing seals been across model years, or limited to a certain year?


Greg
96 RT
00 GTS

 

[viperdoctor]

Thanks guys!

Couple of new questions:

1) Wouldn't I see significant oil smoke out the back of the car upon decceleration of the engine if the valve stems seals are leaking oil?

2) Is my catalytic converter for the right cylinder bank toast/junked-up from spraying oil into it?

Thanks!