Whose SSG ACR wrecked in Ohio today?

[v10enomous]

So you gonna change your screen name to timcantdrivewell ? J/K It's a joke... It's a joke... I'm a kidder

 

[johniew398]

Re: Whose SSG ACR wrecked in Ohio today? MINE

To answer all the speculation - That was my car. Only 6 parts need to be replaced. It will be back on the road next week. I am shocked at all of the discussion and bantering about, speculation, etc. To end speculation about "who", "what", "how" the car ended up backing up into the tire wall, here are the facts.


1. I was serving as one of the key instructors at the event. I have over 24 years racing and track experience at the pro level. (So NO, I wasn't driving over my head.)
2. I was on my cool-down lap coming in off a relatively slow (1:16-17 lap times) run before lunch.
3. The car immediately snapped spun in turn four (Oaktree) at the apex. No warning, a complete mystery as I was light on throttle application at the apex of a left-hander setting up for entry to the carousel.
4. The tire wall saved my car and my butt with very little damage - however "ramping" backwards up the wall caused the front splitter to break as it pushed into the ground. (Naturally the most expensive part!) The rear diffuser panel is fine. Only about six parts need replaced, nothing mechanical or structural was hurt.
5. Our Chief instructor, the SCCA track steward and I surveyed the skid marks on track and were baffled by the fact that we saw a 20' long black skid mark from the inside left tire before I hit both feet in to stop. Why only the front left was skidding so severely was a mystery to all of us at the time, as I was on the throttle, I had no idea what happened ...That is until we dissembled the front brakes. What we found was a large, deep gouge in the inside of the front left brake rotor, and a huge gouge in the corresponding inside left brake pad. Something very hard and very nasty lodged in the brake caliper. With all of the corner loading on that inside front tire, it was the worst thing to happen at the worst possible time and place. Had it happened on the straight it would have dis-lodged pulled slightly to the left and off to the races without any issue.

Because I slid backwards up the tire wall (like a ramp) I felt literally no impact physically. I run an ACR-X race car, a Ferrari Challenge car and Daytona prototype and always wear a HANS devise. This was my street car, I was going relatively slow (for me), and I did not have my HANS on, so fortunately the backwards slide was a God-send, so were the tires. All the black tire marks cleaned off the paint without even a scratch using a non-abrasive bug and tar remover.

To address the insurance issue. Yes, I have insurance - good insurance - I have 28 collectible exotics on the policy. Will I make a claim? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! With only a couple grand in damages, it would be stupid to risk the premiums rising on all 28 cars on that policy.

Here are the lessons learned: 1. I felt like I really failed my 65 students by being the one car to crash that day. 2. I learned that it wasn't my fault, rather "Sh!* Happens!" It can happen to anyone, anytime, street, track or on the driveway. 3. I did not have any stainless mesh protecting the intakes for the brake ducts. With all the debris on a track, you need protection. So my pride is hurt a bit, and my wallet a little, but we move on. Tomorrow I head to Mid-Ohio with my ACR-X. Today, I am installing new brake cooling debris mesh to protect the rotors!!

This should end all of the speculation. END OF STORY.

Glad it wasn't any worse than that and you didn't get hurt. Also, nice lesson learned about what can happen without the driver doing anything to cause it.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Glad you're ok! And by the sounds of it, have plenty other sweet cars to drive!!

The car snapped around no warning? Did the rear knuckle break by chance?

Rear suspension defect <-- thread

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[Bobpantax]

Re: Whose SSG ACR wrecked in Ohio today? MINE

Thank you for posting. S**t sure can happen. I had a small incident whereby I learned that the radiator fluid overflow vessel has its own drain when it overflows and that drain is activated at certain pressure levels. I also learned that the drain exits just to the rear of the right front tire so that the fluid can easily hit the rear right tire. Lastly, I learned that the system had been slightly overfilled with fluid - but that slighjtly was enough to cause a problem. An overflow did happen and I took a nice backward ride at 110 MPH steering by looking through the rear view mirror. It was sort of fun and fortunately the damage was only cosmetic with the addition of one bruised ego. LOL.

To answer all the speculation - That was my car. Only 6 parts need to be replaced. It will be back on the road next week. I am shocked at all of the discussion and bantering about, speculation, etc. To end speculation about "who", "what", "how" the car ended up backing up into the tire wall, here are the facts.


1. I was serving as one of the key instructors at the event. I have over 24 years racing and track experience at the pro level. (So NO, I wasn't driving over my head.)
2. I was on my cool-down lap coming in off a relatively slow (1:16-17 lap times) run before lunch.
3. The car immediately snapped spun in turn four (Oaktree) at the apex. No warning, a complete mystery as I was light on throttle application at the apex of a left-hander setting up for entry to the carousel.
4. The tire wall saved my car and my butt with very little damage - however "ramping" backwards up the wall caused the front splitter to break as it pushed into the ground. (Naturally the most expensive part!) The rear diffuser panel is fine. Only about six parts need replaced, nothing mechanical or structural was hurt.
5. Our Chief instructor, the SCCA track steward and I surveyed the skid marks on track and were baffled by the fact that we saw a 20' long black skid mark from the inside left tire before I hit both feet in to stop. Why only the front left was skidding so severely was a mystery to all of us at the time, as I was on the throttle, I had no idea what happened ...That is until we dissembled the front brakes. What we found was a large, deep gouge in the inside of the front left brake rotor, and a huge gouge in the corresponding inside left brake pad. Something very hard and very nasty lodged in the brake caliper. With all of the corner loading on that inside front tire, it was the worst thing to happen at the worst possible time and place. Had it happened on the straight it would have dis-lodged pulled slightly to the left and off to the races without any issue.

Because I slid backwards up the tire wall (like a ramp) I felt literally no impact physically. I run an ACR-X race car, a Ferrari Challenge car and Daytona prototype and always wear a HANS devise. This was my street car, I was going relatively slow (for me), and I did not have my HANS on, so fortunately the backwards slide was a God-send, so were the tires. All the black tire marks cleaned off the paint without even a scratch using a non-abrasive bug and tar remover.

To address the insurance issue. Yes, I have insurance - good insurance - I have 28 collectible exotics on the policy. Will I make a claim? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! With only a couple grand in damages, it would be stupid to risk the premiums rising on all 28 cars on that policy.

Here are the lessons learned: 1. I felt like I really failed my 65 students by being the one car to crash that day. 2. I learned that it wasn't my fault, rather "Sh!* Happens!" It can happen to anyone, anytime, street, track or on the driveway. 3. I did not have any stainless mesh protecting the intakes for the brake ducts. With all the debris on a track, you need protection. So my pride is hurt a bit, and my wallet a little, but we move on. Tomorrow I head to Mid-Ohio with my ACR-X. Today, I am installing new brake cooling debris mesh to protect the rotors!!

This should end all of the speculation. END OF STORY.

 

[AZTVR]

Tim, your post and others following it are exactly why people are interested and speculate. There has been quite a bit of discussion lately about broken suspension parts on various years of Vipers. Your input on screening brake duct is very good. I will add that a friend picked up a small part of someone else's transmission that was dropped on the track and it ended up piercing his oil cooler. Luckily he was black flagged and did not lose oil pressure by the time he got it shut down. I learned that screening across the whole front air intake was something I should do. (But haven't, because it will never happen to me ! )

Good to hear that the damage was fairly minimal.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Class Act !!

Great post Tim and I am sure many appreciate you clarifying the situation , as well as illustrating what can happen to the best of us on track and that of course there are risks. Interesting observation and would never have thought to do a debris mesh in the cooling ducts , but makes a ton of sense as many of us have already done them for oil coolers, radiators ,etc.

 

[rw99]

Great post, Tim... thanks for the info; I'm going to look at meshing those intakes as well.

You had a really weird incident but I'm happy to hear the outcome was surprisingly damage-free! Drive on.


Rich

PS... as for posting up others' on-track mishaps, IMO the guideline should be: would I want it posted if it were my car? To me, it just seems like a courtesy from one driver to the other. Of course there's no expectation of privacy, but I would never want to pile onto another driver's bad day.

On the other hand, if somebody's being a d-bag on the track and ends up in the wall? I may snap a pic or two

 

[hou99gts]

Thanks for the update Tim (glad you are ok), I was wondering how the twin to my car was doing! Now if we could find the third one made in 2009, we would know where all of them are....

Good advice on the mesh protection! I already added the rear knuckle protection to my car, the mesh will be next. I already had the plastic fog light delete covers broken on my car, so I upgraded them to a steel plate.

 

[Konza800]

Glad you are OK Tim! Sorry about your car though, that *****.

 

[TrackAire]

I had just posted about brakes and fluids being the number one cause of off road excursions in another persons thread. Bob and Tim just confirmed this with past experience of other track rats and instructors I've talked to. Again, glad you're ok and the car isn't hurt.

Good info on the brake duct mesh screen....possibly a new product for a vendor to make??

I never do track events with my licence plate on.....just personal preference for a variety of reasons.

Cheers,
George

 

[dester243]

Tim, I don't know you but glad you are ok and the car suffered minor/minimal damage. ***** that something got stuck in the brakes and caused the accident. But it seems that others might learn something when tracking their cars to avoid a similar incident.

hou99gts. tattoed owns the other non striped SSG ACR. He lives in KC and posted earlier in the thread. I am not sure what year his is...

 

[timcantwell]

Tim, your post and others following it are exactly why people are interested and speculate. There has been quite a bit of discussion lately about broken suspension parts on various years of Vipers. Your input on screening brake duct is very good. I will add that a friend picked up a small part of someone else's transmission that was dropped on the track and it ended up piercing his oil cooler. Luckily he was black flagged and did not lose oil pressure by the time he got it shut down. I learned that screening across the whole front air intake was something I should do. (But haven't, because it will never happen to me ! )

Good to hear that the damage was fairly minimal.

You must be registered for see images attach

Here's a shot of the mesh I installed today on my ACR-X. Also to expand upon the story shared by "Bobpantax" - I noticed too the day before I left for the track that the factory fill on the radiator fluid was over the top fill line on the reservoir. I told myself to pump some coolant out before leaving, but forgot. I did see some residual overflow on my garage floor after bringing the car home from my shop to my home the night before. I "shoulda, coulda, woulda". I don't think I had a problem with the coolant, but it certainly crossed my mind. You CANNOT leave for the track without a meticulous review of the car! I typically only run race cars on the track, but ironically brought my 884 mile SSG to perform duty as a "VIP Taxi" to give on-track rides to key participants. My race car has only one seat. I changed all the fluids (except the coolant) and went on my merry way. The brake cooling duct screen is another one of those items I will think about, but keep procrastinating to install. Today, I fabricated and installed new mesh for the cooling ducts on the "X" before Mid-Ohio. (I've attached the photo) Preparation is EVERYTHING. My advice, If in doubt, fix it, change it, or don't leave for the track!

 

[TowDawg]

To anyone who isn't aware.

LEE HAS NOT AND WILL NOT RESIGN! In fact, he has now removed from office and banned anyone who has been actually having open discussions with anyone else. This includes Randall, Maurice, and probably Tony by the time I write this. He is cleaning house of anyone and everyone who knows his shady dealings, instead of stepping down like he originally said. NOTHING will be changing at the VCA except the fact that the VCA is OVER. Lee has gone completely rogue and is doing everything possible to shut anyone up who knows anything. The problem is, A LOT of NEW information is flowing on the other Viper sites. After these current moves, you can be 100% sure that there are some really bad things that they cannot afford to have known, and the relationship with Chrysler/SRT is 100% dead (I'm sure they have already been made aware of Lee's latest dictator moves).

I URGE YOU TO CONTACT YOUR LOCAL PRESIDENTS IMMEDIATELY AND GET THE FULL STORY (OF WHAT HAS BEEN RECENTLY DONE) AND TELL THEM THAT YOU 100% EXPECT THEM TO WITHDRAW FROM THE VCA AT THIS VERY MOMENT! There are already additional directors and founding VCA officers resigning and cutting ties (and not with very good language to Lee either).

Please check the other sites and see for yourself. If anyone needs to reach me after this, I go by the same user name on the other sites. Something tells me I will not have access to this site within a few minutes of posting this.

 

[rw99]

In summary, then, Tim is OK... but the VCA is a full-on dumpster fire.

Happily, Maurice is my local president


Rich

 

[ACRucrazy]

Tim, I don't know you but glad you are ok and the car suffered minor/minimal damage. ***** that something got stuck in the brakes and caused the accident. But it seems that others might learn something when tracking their cars to avoid a similar incident.

hou99gts. tattoed owns the other non striped SSG ACR. He lives in KC and posted earlier in the thread. I am not sure what year his is...

His is a 2010.

 

[hou99gts]

Tim, I don't know you but glad you are ok and the car suffered minor/minimal damage. ***** that something got stuck in the brakes and caused the accident. But it seems that others might learn something when tracking their cars to avoid a similar incident.

hou99gts. tattoed owns the other non striped SSG ACR. He lives in KC and posted earlier in the thread. I am not sure what year his is...

His is the 2010 as ACRucrazy said, I was looking for the other 2009 (there were 3 made in 2009). Thanks-

 

[tbsviper]

Thank you Tim for explaining what happened and the lessons learned. That is exactly what I was looking for when I posted I would like to know how/what happened. Glad you were unhurt with minimal damage to your SSG viper.

 

[timcantwell]

In summary, then, Tim is OK... but the VCA is a full-on dumpster fire.

Happily, Maurice is my local president


Rich

A real dumpster fire. I can't believe that highjacking a thread for political reasons and personal vendettas is more important than sharing info regarding the safety and well-being of our driver community. I guess that's why my total number of posts is five during the last 16 years I have been a VCA member.

 

[Voodoo Rob]

In summary, then, Tim is OK... but the VCA is a full-on dumpster fire.

Happily, Maurice is my local president


Rich

A real dumpster fire. I can't believe that highjacking a thread for political reasons and personal vendettas is more important than sharing info regarding the safety and well-being of our driver community. I guess that's why my total number of posts is five during the last 16 years I have been a VCA member.

I agree. It was great of you to come on and talk about what happened to the car.

 

[msp282]

And for that reason I have no great desire to track my ACR (unless I get track day specific insurance)...... I raced with NASA in Honda Challenge for 3 years but that was in a 250hp zero torque Honda S2000....(it is about 4 seconds slower at NJMP than a stock ACR Viper) a throw away car compared to my ACR...... Similar to your "holy ****" I did that on the road at 40mph and looped mine in traffic and luckily hit nothing but looked like a complete idiot to the 3-4 people who saw it....I was backwards before I could even react and I was just going around a turn at 40mph but it was a cool morning...

To answer all the speculation - That was my car. Only 6 parts need to be replaced. It will be back on the road next week. I am shocked at all of the discussion and bantering about, speculation, etc. To end speculation about "who", "what", "how" the car ended up backing up into the tire wall, here are the facts.


1. I was serving as one of the key instructors at the event. I have over 24 years racing and track experience at the pro level. (So NO, I wasn't driving over my head.)
2. I was on my cool-down lap coming in off a relatively slow (1:16-17 lap times) run before lunch.
3. The car immediately snapped spun in turn four (Oaktree) at the apex. No warning, a complete mystery as I was light on throttle application at the apex of a left-hander setting up for entry to the carousel.
4. The tire wall saved my car and my butt with very little damage - however "ramping" backwards up the wall caused the front splitter to break as it pushed into the ground. (Naturally the most expensive part!) The rear diffuser panel is fine. Only about six parts need replaced, nothing mechanical or structural was hurt.
5. Our Chief instructor, the SCCA track steward and I surveyed the skid marks on track and were baffled by the fact that we saw a 20' long black skid mark from the inside left tire before I hit both feet in to stop. Why only the front left was skidding so severely was a mystery to all of us at the time, as I was on the throttle, I had no idea what happened ...That is until we dissembled the front brakes. What we found was a large, deep gouge in the inside of the front left brake rotor, and a huge gouge in the corresponding inside left brake pad. Something very hard and very nasty lodged in the brake caliper. With all of the corner loading on that inside front tire, it was the worst thing to happen at the worst possible time and place. Had it happened on the straight it would have dis-lodged pulled slightly to the left and off to the races without any issue.

Because I slid backwards up the tire wall (like a ramp) I felt literally no impact physically. I run an ACR-X race car, a Ferrari Challenge car and Daytona prototype and always wear a HANS devise. This was my street car, I was going relatively slow (for me), and I did not have my HANS on, so fortunately the backwards slide was a God-send, so were the tires. All the black tire marks cleaned off the paint without even a scratch using a non-abrasive bug and tar remover.

To address the insurance issue. Yes, I have insurance - good insurance - I have 28 collectible exotics on the policy. Will I make a claim? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! With only a couple grand in damages, it would be stupid to risk the premiums rising on all 28 cars on that policy.

Here are the lessons learned: 1. I felt like I really failed my 65 students by being the one car to crash that day. 2. I learned that it wasn't my fault, rather "Sh!* Happens!" It can happen to anyone, anytime, street, track or on the driveway. 3. I did not have any stainless mesh protecting the intakes for the brake ducts. With all the debris on a track, you need protection. So my pride is hurt a bit, and my wallet a little, but we move on. Tomorrow I head to Mid-Ohio with my ACR-X. Today, I am installing new brake cooling debris mesh to protect the rotors!!

This should end all of the speculation. END OF STORY.

 

[Leslie]

I am so glad to hear you are ok!

I havn't run Nelson Ledges for years, at that time it was not a forgiving track and in a very rural location.

Mid OH is great, there's a bunch of us that run there if you want to hang out with us. Next weekend is Oct 11th.

 

[rw99]

I'm hoping to provoke Tim into making his 6th post...

Is there a list or a thread that compiles this sort of track failure/fix information? A "top five" (or ten) minor changes to make to a Gen IV Viper that's used at the track? Lessons from Viper Cup, maybe?

We have the (1)rear knuckle support brackets, to which we can add (2)screening the brake ducts. What else?


Rich

 

[hou99gts]

I'm hoping to provoke Tim into making his 6th post...

Is there a list or a thread that compiles this sort of track failure/fix information? A "top five" (or ten) minor changes to make to a Gen IV Viper that's used at the track? Lessons from Viper Cup, maybe?

We have the (1)rear knuckle support brackets, to which we can add (2)screening the brake ducts. What else?

Rich

Oil catch can. 6 point harness. Front and rear tow hooks. Upgraded fluids. SS brake lines.

 

[timcantwell]

Oil catch can. 6 point harness. Front and rear tow hooks. Upgraded fluids. SS brake lines.

I agree with the above, add TIRES (good track tires, new), fire extinguisher, upgraded brake pads, radiator overflow catch can.

 

[Bobpantax]

Make sure shoe laces are tied properly assuming shoes with laces are worn. They can get caught in the pedals.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

Well maybe Tim will show us some pics of the cars he mentioned. I like to dream and the cars he has are what alot of us dream about.

Glad to hear you are ok Tim. You sound like a 1st class kind of person.

 

[shine]

Well maybe Tim will show us some pics of the cars he mentioned.

I was at an HPDE with Tim back in 2011 and got to see his -X and his Ferrari. Very, very nice cars, and Tim and his wife were awesome to talk to. They helped me reset a trouble code after I spun out and put the computer in limp mode.

The event had a ton of pictures of everyone's cars, but I just looked, and the site has gone down now or I'd put some up.

 

[TrackAire]

Tim,

I would love to get some of your input regarding Hans devices versus stock 3 point seat belts versus racing harnesses. In a newer Viper such as yours, if you did not have a harness, do you think it is better to not use the Hans device?

All these questions are based on a street car that does not have a full tube frame or extensive roll cage....pretty much like what most guys drive on track days, your basic Viper with possible added harnesses, etc.

Here are a couple of scenarios, any thoughts?

-There was some discussing a while back that you're better off without the Hans device if you are just running the stock seat belts since your body will move in a lot of different positions during a wreck and the Hans device might make things worse.

-If you have a very good racing harness, should you always wear a Hans device? The racing harness may cause more injuries if you're not wearing a Hans device.

-If you are taking a passenger along for a ride......are they better off in the 3 point stock seat belt or the harness (assuming you don't have a Hans device for them)

-Last, what it the current opinion on the neck collar pad worn around the neck that use to be so popular years ago? I've heard that they can actually cause more neck damage since it leverages the head up and lets the neck snap forward further during impact.

Thanks in advance,
George

 

[timcantwell]

Tim,

I would love to get some of your input regarding Hans devices versus stock 3 point seat belts versus racing harnesses. In a newer Viper such as yours, if you did not have a harness, do you think it is better to not use the Hans device?

All these questions are based on a street car that does not have a full tube frame or extensive roll cage....pretty much like what most guys drive on track days, your basic Viper with possible added harnesses, etc.

Here are a couple of scenarios, any thoughts?

-There was some discussing a while back that you're better off without the Hans device if you are just running the stock seat belts since your body will move in a lot of different positions during a wreck and the Hans device might make things worse.

-If you have a very good racing harness, should you always wear a Hans device? The racing harness may cause more injuries if you're not wearing a Hans device.

-If you are taking a passenger along for a ride......are they better off in the 3 point stock seat belt or the harness (assuming you don't have a Hans device for them)

-Last, what it the current opinion on the neck collar pad worn around the neck that use to be so popular years ago? I've heard that they can actually cause more neck damage since it leverages the head up and lets the neck snap forward further during impact.

Thanks in advance,
George

George,

A quick answer to your question and various scenarios are to follow my guidelines as follows:

A HANS device is preferred at all times while on the track. However, you can't use a HANS device without the right six point, HANS compatible harnesses and a helmet with appropriate HANS mounting points. Also, it is preferable to use a HANS compatible race seat that will afford both proper protection, but also proper belt openings for the shoulder harnesses that will work we'll with the HANS.

In the case of my street ACR (2009) it has the stock seats. The belts I installed are not HANS compatible, rather they have 3 inch webbing throughout the six-point system. With the 3" belt width, you get the benefit of any G-forces being distributed over the wider width. HANS compatible belts on the other hand have 2" belt widths where they are intended to cover the HANS collar.

So, when I am driving my ACR-X that is fitted with a HANS compatible seat and belts, I NEVER drive without a HANS device. While driving my ACR street car with street seats and 3" harness belts, I'll drive without the HANS (however not preferred). In all cases a six-point harness regardless of whether it is HANS compatible or not, if far superior to three-point street harnesses. The primary reason they are better is due to the fact that they hold you in your seat much more securely, and secondly they do afford better containment in the event of a high G-load crash. It is important when installing any aftermarket harnesses that you follow F.I.A. Guidelines for installation to be sure that the anchoring system and angles of the attachment points relative to the seat are engineered to specifications.

 

[ACRucrazy]

His is the 2010 as ACRucrazy said, I was looking for the other 2009 (there were 3 made in 2009). Thanks-

A friend of mine snapped this pic in CA today, could it be the other one of the 3?

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