dave6666
Enthusiast
Back off of my ABS... 
Why no electronic stability control, etc?
- Thread starter gofastr
- Start date
10BamBam01
Enthusiast
When they put cup holders in the SRT's they covered half of the remaining nannytech gap.
Sports cars shouldn't have cup holders.
That's a cup holder? I thought that was a place for the passenger to puke when I get done scaring the crap out of them!
OP
OP
gofastr
Enthusiast
What a bunch of hypocrites!!!!! You already have a lot of "nanny" technology in your Vipers. I haven't heard of anybody removing their nanny options like air conditioning, power steering, power brakes, power windows, stereo systems, ABS, alarm systems, etc. If it wasn't for technology, we'd all still be living in caves. Remember this: If you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards.
Also, if an option can save vipers from being crashed and save lives, it seems to me like a good thing.
Also, if an option can save vipers from being crashed and save lives, it seems to me like a good thing.
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kwiksilver
Enthusiast
You don't know what a nanny control is. It is something that drives the car for you if you are doing something stupid. Of all the things you listed, only abs might be one.
I understand your point but the Viper lives within a specific vision conceived by some of the greatest legends of the automotive world. That vision was/is a car that requires more direct driver input without the assistance of computer aids. Yes. There have been a few compromises over the years but for the most part SRT has stayed the course and remained true to the original concept.
The Viper is not a car for everyone who has the money to buy it. It is a car for a driver with a somewhat better skill set who appreciates and enjoys the thrill of relying on his or her own wits. With that said, I agree with the poster above that the Racelogic system is excellent. I have it installed. However, it is not your grandma's traction control. It is a race traction control and has to be set by the driver. The bottom line is that the Viper was never meant to be a poser's car. It is a streetable road course car with incredible performance.
v10enomous
Enthusiast
Start watching this about 50 seconds in...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKsxctt8yE&feature=fvsr[/media]
You would miss out on the challenge of really driving the car... It should be an option to increase sales... I agree that you could disable it when you are in the mood for some of this action...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKsxctt8yE&feature=fvsr[/media]
You would miss out on the challenge of really driving the car... It should be an option to increase sales... I agree that you could disable it when you are in the mood for some of this action...
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Warfang
Enthusiast
A ray of sunshine coming from you chuck?
Actually, you have a point. I was expecting this to go on all night and through the week as usual. Now if we can just get a sticky up for the noobs...
ssnaked
Viper Owner
Unfortunatley Chuck we can't keep the government out. Last I looked traction control is mandated for 2012 model years, Viper inlcuded.
BolsOut
Viper Owner
Eh, it doesnt matter. They aint gonna retro-fit it to my car so who cares.
Dont take all this as a personal attack, Dude. There's ALOT of Passion for this car on this site. It Aint for most people, and thats the way it should stay.
"I understand your point but the Viper lives within a specific vision conceived by some of the greatest legends of the automotive world. That vision was/is a car that requires more direct driver input without the assistance of computer aids. Yes. There have been a few compromises over the years but for the most part SRT has stayed the course and remained true to the original concept.
The Viper is not a car for everyone who has the money to buy it. It is a car for a driver with a somewhat better skill set who appreciates and enjoys the thrill of relying on his or her own wits."
I couldnt have said it better.
FastZilla
Enthusiast
I think a "Sticky" is a great idea!
gofastr - you're right. Our cars are laden with modern items like AC, radios, pwr steering, pwr brakes, etc. I think most of us would love to have them removed but even as much testosterone as I spew I have to accept the reality that items such as pwr brakes & pwr steering are an unfortunate necessity for the Vipers. The 3500 pound curb weight is the reason we have these "nannies".
Power steering:
Because we don't have the 14 turn lock to lock steering ratio of a 1954 Ford truck we have to have some form of "help" or we all will be pretty much unable to turn 295 wide tires while maneuvering under 30 mph - compounded if you have extreme camber for "track" use.
Power brakes:
Same as above, 3500 pound car, unless you want 2ft of pedal travel due to a smaller diameter piston having to move an enormous amount of fluid to 4 4-piston calipers. Even Arnold S. is not strong enough to stop a Viper from 140mph w/o pwr brakes using the stock master cylinder/piston diameter & travel. Everyone remembers the `56 Chevy drum brakes that would lock up with very little effort - look at the size of a wheel cylinder & the fluid volume required to actuate it (tiny). Now look at the twin leading shoe drum set up - a system that provides 10 times the braking surface area and is mechanically designed where the shoe is pulled into the drum with forward travel - stopping while backing up required significantly more pedal force.
AC:
You live in NE FL - I live in S TX (we both understand heat and humidity)...So I guess I'm a fruit - this nanny, even as marginal as it is in the Gen1 I will NOT live without.
Pwr Windows:
Gen1??? Really I think this has more to do with weather sealing the car than driver comfort. Now days I honestly think a pwr window mechanism is actually lighter than a manual window system. I'm assuming here - I basically have a weak argument except for my Gen1.
Radios:
Yeah, can't hear mine in the Gen1 or Gen4 - So much distortion that I turn it off. The Gen4 ACR does come with a "*********" pkg that deletes the radio and puts a lap timer in it's place. Nav systems...Yeah, guilty here. Nav systems have managed to turn completely competant navigators into blue/purple line following idiots. However this is also a safety issue. 9 million times more traffic on the road, 4 times more roads - I'd rather folks be following the blue line and voice prompts than having a map opened up across the steering wheel like we ALL used to do while traveling at hwy+ speeds (don't deny it).
ABS:
I think you know all of our feelings on this. BTW It's govt mandated so it's no longer a driver's choice. I believe it was only a drivers' choice for the 1994-1997 year models before it was mandated standard.
Alarm systems:
It's kind of a reach to consider this a driving nanny. This is mainly necessary because we, Viper owners, at least want a somewhat fighting chance against the loads of thieves in this world. Since we have all been neutered and can no longer protect ourselves or personal property effectively without threat of life in prison or the death penalty for premeditated action because you were sitting in your house with a rifle pointed at your car "baiting" the criminals. Now with the Castle Act we have some reprieve. But I can never remember, is it "Bang! Bang!.....Halt!"??? ...or do I have it backwards...
You've brought up some very valid points. Some are caused by legislation others caused by physics. Neither of which Viper owners have much control over. Politics/legislation, yeah, most of us (Viper owners) did NOT vote our current legislators - but we did vote as provided by our present system.
Just my opinion - no more/no less valuable than anyone else's.
gofastr - you're right. Our cars are laden with modern items like AC, radios, pwr steering, pwr brakes, etc. I think most of us would love to have them removed but even as much testosterone as I spew I have to accept the reality that items such as pwr brakes & pwr steering are an unfortunate necessity for the Vipers. The 3500 pound curb weight is the reason we have these "nannies".
Power steering:
Because we don't have the 14 turn lock to lock steering ratio of a 1954 Ford truck we have to have some form of "help" or we all will be pretty much unable to turn 295 wide tires while maneuvering under 30 mph - compounded if you have extreme camber for "track" use.
Power brakes:
Same as above, 3500 pound car, unless you want 2ft of pedal travel due to a smaller diameter piston having to move an enormous amount of fluid to 4 4-piston calipers. Even Arnold S. is not strong enough to stop a Viper from 140mph w/o pwr brakes using the stock master cylinder/piston diameter & travel. Everyone remembers the `56 Chevy drum brakes that would lock up with very little effort - look at the size of a wheel cylinder & the fluid volume required to actuate it (tiny). Now look at the twin leading shoe drum set up - a system that provides 10 times the braking surface area and is mechanically designed where the shoe is pulled into the drum with forward travel - stopping while backing up required significantly more pedal force.
AC:
You live in NE FL - I live in S TX (we both understand heat and humidity)...So I guess I'm a fruit - this nanny, even as marginal as it is in the Gen1 I will NOT live without.
Pwr Windows:
Gen1??? Really I think this has more to do with weather sealing the car than driver comfort. Now days I honestly think a pwr window mechanism is actually lighter than a manual window system. I'm assuming here - I basically have a weak argument except for my Gen1.
Radios:
Yeah, can't hear mine in the Gen1 or Gen4 - So much distortion that I turn it off. The Gen4 ACR does come with a "*********" pkg that deletes the radio and puts a lap timer in it's place. Nav systems...Yeah, guilty here. Nav systems have managed to turn completely competant navigators into blue/purple line following idiots. However this is also a safety issue. 9 million times more traffic on the road, 4 times more roads - I'd rather folks be following the blue line and voice prompts than having a map opened up across the steering wheel like we ALL used to do while traveling at hwy+ speeds (don't deny it).
ABS:
I think you know all of our feelings on this. BTW It's govt mandated so it's no longer a driver's choice. I believe it was only a drivers' choice for the 1994-1997 year models before it was mandated standard.
Alarm systems:
It's kind of a reach to consider this a driving nanny. This is mainly necessary because we, Viper owners, at least want a somewhat fighting chance against the loads of thieves in this world. Since we have all been neutered and can no longer protect ourselves or personal property effectively without threat of life in prison or the death penalty for premeditated action because you were sitting in your house with a rifle pointed at your car "baiting" the criminals. Now with the Castle Act we have some reprieve. But I can never remember, is it "Bang! Bang!.....Halt!"??? ...or do I have it backwards...
You've brought up some very valid points. Some are caused by legislation others caused by physics. Neither of which Viper owners have much control over. Politics/legislation, yeah, most of us (Viper owners) did NOT vote our current legislators - but we did vote as provided by our present system.
Just my opinion - no more/no less valuable than anyone else's.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
The guys at Car and Driver are tools. They subtracted points on a Viper in a comparo with a GTR because the Viper didn't have a rear seat. Give me a break.
According to the Discovery channel world ends then anyway.
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Some of you need to visit the "serious business" thread on the Grail Trail forum. To oversimplify, to sell more Vipers should next generation include more creature comforts to appeal to more people or revert to the original concept? Your vote there may help decide.
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cash84
Viper Owner
cash84
Viper Owner
then the idiots shouldn't be getting the car in the first place. They could have got the vette instead. I don't even like the fact that the Gen 4 has electronic throttle and variable cam gear it has. Probably stick with my gen 3 or older.
Darbgnik
Enthusiast
Cupholder?
Can't think of one cup I've ever used that it would hold.
Also, as it's been said, ABS is now mandatory. Thats the reason my H1 has a Torsen TT4 instead of the original transfer case (to make ABS possible). The older one worked better by the way.
Can't think of one cup I've ever used that it would hold.
Also, as it's been said, ABS is now mandatory. Thats the reason my H1 has a Torsen TT4 instead of the original transfer case (to make ABS possible). The older one worked better by the way.
Janni
Enthusiast
So - we turn it into a 'vette competitor and then we get ALL SORTS of people cross shopping the Viper with the 'vette (it'll lose, too expensive), the Jag (lose again, too American), the Aston (it'll lose, see prior), the GTR (lose again - too American)
So we'll then have a car that no longer appeals to the original enthusiasts, and a poor competitor in the Luxo-GT-Nanny space.
I don't want to leave the niche that Viper has created.
And yes - the ACR I am picking up Friday has the Hardcare package. Radio, schmadio.
So we'll then have a car that no longer appeals to the original enthusiasts, and a poor competitor in the Luxo-GT-Nanny space.
I don't want to leave the niche that Viper has created.
And yes - the ACR I am picking up Friday has the Hardcare package. Radio, schmadio.
I think everyone forgot that teensy point of keeping the brand alive. A large percentage of sports car buyers KNOW that they are crap drivers (whether they admit it or not is another thing...). The lack of traction control scares the crap out of them. Having it at least as an option can increase the customer base... On one hand we want an exclusive car for a relatively decent price.. on the other hand the brand has to make economic sense!
Of all the nanny features, I'm surprised no one raise the whole "electronic throttle" issue in this thread
As time passes and technology evolves, we tend to complain, slowly get used to it and finally accept it. Soon a manual car will be considered old school..
How come no one asks about carburetors on their V10 as an option
As for Fiat involvement.. Frankly, I'm scared. FWD Viper anyone?!!!
Martin
Enthusiast
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ferrari stability control utilized sometime in the future as as option
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
If the car gets bogged down with nanny aids, I would rather see it die out quick, while it's on top. Much better than a slow painfull death....................
shooter_t1
Has Left the Room!
The personal satisfaction I had getting my car around the track @ TWS as fast as I could using throttle modulation and car control far outweighs the slight benefit I would have gained if I had TC. Thankfully, our Vipers are still a drivers car.
Alexarz
Enthusiast
Bravo, Bob! This statement of yours (combined with the Monster Energy drink I consumed about 30 minutes ago) has me so worked up, I'm ready to suit up, take out my GTS, go find a euro car (if I can't find a euro car, a vette will do) roaming about and kick the ever living **** out of it.
Beloved fans, if you do not see one of my glorious kill posts here within the next 7 days, I probably killed myself due to a lack of nanny controls and an overzealous ego. In such a case, I expect that you create a memorial post on my behalf, with woozy sentiment being flung like rice at a wedding.
Alexarz
Enthusiast
Were you born a nerd or did you evolve into one?
Martin
Enthusiast
I don't think anyone here has anything in mind other than the best interests of each other. Hypothetical situation - a VCA member gets into a street race, kills someone, the family of the deceased hires a good lawyer, that lawyer does his/her homework, finds that the at-fault party is a VCA member, sees a picture of his car next to an incriminating post, subpoenas the VCA web logs, determines the at-fault party posted in advance of that street race, and screws the hell out of the member for a premeditated street race that killed someone. It is possible.
