Why would my Viper LOSE 80-110 Horsepower coming from Florida to Ohio?

[Russ M]

Sun Ra Kat,

The mods you listed are the only ones you have?

How much boost is the blower pushing?

Stock heads? You mentioned something about Stryker heads, do you have them on your car?

If we know what the major power mods on your car are, then perhaps we can start figuring out if 600+ or 700+ rwhp is your legitamate number.

The other mods are 2" seat lowering kit and related custom mods so I can fit in it with a racing helmet - I'm 6' 5" tall.

Boost measured in Ohio is 13+ pounds, almost 14 pounds. Seems very reasonable using the David Weaver Pulley. Larry took great effort in making sure the serpentine belt had no slippage.

I have the street version of the Striker heads with Jesel Roller Rockers.

Larry first promised that he would deliver "at least the high 700's and maybe even the low to mid 800's in power". He delivered the car to me July 1, 2006 with an extremely bad tune and a claimed 721 rear wheel horsepower. It did run good under acelleration, but horrible at a constant street driving RPM. In mid July I found out from Sean Roe that the low 700's was the maximum the Roe Supercharger can flow. Larry changed his promise of power to the "mid-700's". This may be possible with special port matching and adjustments to the supercharger case which Larry did. Larry told me that even with the bad tune I would have no problem running it at the dragstrip, so I did run it at the ViperNationals in Columbus, Ohio on August 5, 2006. The first 2 runs it blew the fuse to the PCM. My Viper Tech was at the track and he and a mutual friend worked on it and it made 3 more runs without blowing anymore fuses. I did two runs of 11.9X ET @ 123 & 127 MPH. The track was in poor shape and that was the first time (and last) I did any drag racing in 2006.

Larry did get the mid-700's in power using 100 octane race gas and no catalytic converters. I drive to the track, on the track, and home from the track (no trailer), so I have my Random Tech Metal Substrate cats on all the time. I run 93 octane normally, but could use 100 octane unleaded gas if I wanted to.

The next step I would take if it was my car is, get a good boost reading. I noticed the dyno at precision shows 13.5 or so boost where did they measure that from? Did they actualy hook up a boost monitor to your motor?

Get a laptop and get a good reading from your map sensor, do a datalog with the AEM. If possible send me a copy of the datalog, I can have a look at it.

The plugs you were told to put into the car by the people at Stryker are NOT a good idea. They may not be aware that you are running 13+ psi of boost, and that is a bit much for a 7 heat range plug. The 3922 you have in there now is even a bit hot for my taste.

Your highest MPH was 127, and that is far from a 750rwhp viper even with poor traction. With that type of power 140mph should be achieved without trying too hard unless the car has tuning issues.

Let me know on the boost.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Russ M - thanks for the help. I'll find out the info for you. I'll try get notify Jeff Morys (Striker heads) on the boost. I think Larry Macedo said he got 12 pounds max and then at the higher RPMs the boost went down a tad. I'd say the car has tuning issues, but once the correct reach and heat range spark plug is put in tuning it should open up a lot more power, but not as much as what Larry Macedo got according to the 2 tuners in Ohio whose dynos I vistited last weekend.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Is it possible that Larry's dyno test numbers on my Viper are the result of skulldruggery?

Just an inquiry...nothing more.

The fact that you could post THAT and then try to pass it off as an innocuous "inquiry" basically blew ANY last little bit of credibility you possibly had. You are a classless individual (with man-boobs no less) and a disgrace (even more than ME!!!). I might start a fund to buy your car from you, then scrap it...just to shut you up!

You are a sad individual.

BTW....I got my CTD Ram back from service and they didn't top off my windshield wiper fluid resevoir. Please log on to the TurboDiesel Registry and read about it!

 

[Russ M]

Is it possible that Larry's dyno test numbers on my Viper are the result of skulldruggery?

Just an inquiry...nothing more.

The fact that you could post THAT and then try to pass it off as an innocuous "inquiry" basically blew ANY last little bit of credibility you possibly had. You are a classless individual (with man-boobs no less) and a disgrace (even more than ME!!!). I might start a fund to buy your car from you, then scrap it...just to shut you up!

You are a sad individual.

BTW....I got my CTD Ram back from service and they didn't top off my windshield wiper fluid resevoir. Please log on to the TurboDiesel Registry and read about it!

There is no need for personal insults, if you want to do that go to the other site.

It is not uncomon to get different dyno readings from shop to shop, belive it or not even swings of 100 hp are not that much of a surprise. There are numerous shops that for whatever reason give there customers elevated figures, some dont even realize it.

The shop in question is probably not doing so, but no one can argue that a 750+ rwhp car should pull alot higher than 127mph in the 1/4 mile.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Supercharged Vipermad, why would my Viper LOSE 80-110 Horsepower coming from Florida to Ohio?

Just the wrong spark plugs?

Putting on Random Tech Metal Substrate catalytic converters?

Difference in altitude from Florida to Ohio?

All 3?

What are your ideas?

I was promised "at least the high 700's in power and maybe even the low to mid 800's" at one time.

Did you lose the use of your CTD Ram running right for almost 17 months and paid $28,000 for the privelege?

Did they put in the "wrong" spark plugs in your CTD Ram?

Was your cooling system almost half empty when you picked it up?

Does your CTD Ram backfire at idle & die in traffic?

Is your CTD 80-110 horsepower less than what your service dealer claimed it was?

Be thankfull that all you have to do is top off your windshield wiper fluid resevoir.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

In a message dated 3/9/2007 6:59:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, MacedoMS writes:

In a message dated 3/8/2007 6:44:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, SUN RA KAT writes:

Got this as an answer about being down so much in power and 5.5 quarts in coolant -

"You're way down on power, the car is running poorly and the coolant level has mysteriously dropped with no signs of a leak... This sounds like a blown head gasket or maybe a cracked head. Either of these problems would allow coolant to escape into the exhaust system where it is boiled off and you never realize it. It would also explain the power loss and poorly running motor."

Is there any easy way to check for those two conditions?

Hello Kenny,

The easiest way to check for that condition would be to remove the spark plugs an inspect those for deposits.

Best regards,

Larry Macedo

 

[Russ M]

A plug with water combustion will appear clean, like it just went through a steam bath. That is if the coolant/water is being consumed by the motor through the chamber.

Those plugs just look extreemly rich, and perhaps oil consumption. Difficult to tell on the oil though. Can you take a pic of all of them and post, what you are looking for is a plug or two that are different than all the others in condition.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

That was spark plug #7 in the photos.

I pulled only one other plug - #1 - and it looked just like it.

Thanks for letting me know what to look for.

I'll be sending my Viper to another tuner to have everything inspected very soon.

I've asked Larry if he put new stronger connected rods in my engine and am awaiting his answer.

The Viper Gen IV engine engineers said anyone with the power I'm running, which is lots less the the power Larry Macedo promised needs stronger than stock connecting rods. I can't find them on my Invoice from Macedo.

 

[Russ M]

Sun Ra Kat,

You do not need better connecting rods for the power you are making, even if you make 1000rwhp factory rods are good enough for most cases. That is unless you paid for better rods, if thats the case then you have some phone calls to make.

I hate to get involved in what you paid 28k for, it is really none of my business but if you wouldnt mind can you let me know? Did it include a built motor and such?

If its just a tuner you want AEM has authorized tuners that you can have fly to your house and tune your car. If you want someone to diagnose your problem, and you do not have the right people in your area shipping your car to someone that knows may be an idea.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I won't be posting anything more on this until my Viper has been thoroughly inspected and the results are known.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Sounds like the original run was completed on the BS dyno.Good luck.Hope you get some money back. GTS Bruce

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Sounds like the original run was completed on the BS dyno.Good luck.Hope you get some money back. GTS Bruce

Here's link to the dyno graphs of the first day at an independent dyno test -

http://www4.forum.viperclub.org/showflat...SID=#Post804642

The dyno runs the next day are already posted as well as Larry's dyno results.

Please note the <font color="red">2nd paragraph below (I've made it red for easier viewing) </font> below indicating Larry Macedo deliberately put in the wrong spark plugs. Also see Underground Racing's expert opinion of what putting the wrong spark plugs does to an engine further below.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Macedo

VCA Member


Reged: 08/18/02
Posts: 1077
Loc: Orlando, FL
Re: Kennys Viper progress?

#803232 - 03/15/07 03:26 PM


Holy Hannah! I didn't use the spark plug recommended by the manufacturer and still produced 766/748rwhp and 848/832rwtq. Good Night! That means had I used the spark plug recommended by the manufacturer, we would have shattered the world record for a Roe that we already established... Arghhh! The irony of it all!

<font color="red">We originally used the VEC2 and Iridium plug, but surpassed those dyno numbers with the AEM and the plugs we chose.</font>

--------------------

Larry Macedo
Macedo Motorsports
407.246.6511 Office
407.970.3463 Cell
www.macedomotorsports.com

<font color="red"> </font>