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This is what the Crower roller rocker can do that a shaft mounted rocker can't. I noticed a loud tick from the V-10 in my truck and it was running a little rough, too. This is what I found.
Why you buy shaft mounted rockers.........inside!
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This is what the Crower roller rocker can do that a shaft mounted rocker can't. I noticed a loud tick from the V-10 in my truck and it was running a little rough, too. This is what I found.
Ulysses
Enthusiast
Egads!! That's scarey lookin'.
Prashant
Enthusiast
Hey Steve, those ARROW Roller Rockers are not Shaft Mounted...one of our club members had the same thing happen to his Viper. Remember folks you always get what you pay for
Gerald
Enthusiast
I had the opp. to buy arrow or T & D. I was told that Arrow were ok, but T & D were stronger and better suited for my engine. After seeing these pics (although I'm sure it doesn't happen often), glad I choose the T & D's.
Gerald
Gerald
kverges
Enthusiast
That is a potential risk, but I have many, many miles - many on track - with the Crowers. I bought one set from the used parts off this list and it was obvious that the installer had not set the lash properly, as every one had been galled slightly by being cranked down onto the stud.
I really would first make sure the installation had the lash set properly and that the poly-lock nuts were set properly.
This type of rocker works fine - it was OEM on the Chevy LT4 engine that easily turned 6300 rpm with 100,000 mile reliability.
Shaft rockers are the ultimate, but overkill IMO for a low rpm hydraulic cammed motor.
Don't blame the product unless you are sure the installation was flawless. There is not much way the roller tip can jump off the valve stem unless something was loose or worked loose.
FWIW,
I really would first make sure the installation had the lash set properly and that the poly-lock nuts were set properly.
This type of rocker works fine - it was OEM on the Chevy LT4 engine that easily turned 6300 rpm with 100,000 mile reliability.
Shaft rockers are the ultimate, but overkill IMO for a low rpm hydraulic cammed motor.
Don't blame the product unless you are sure the installation was flawless. There is not much way the roller tip can jump off the valve stem unless something was loose or worked loose.
FWIW,
I think mine was a lifter failure. Either way you don't risk dropping a valve into your motor with this kind of failure (lifter or poor adjustment) if you have shaft mounted rockers. I bet there aren't any available for the Magnum V-10 though. I'm just going to fix it and cross my fingers.
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
Steve,
Glad to see that nothing was hurt!
As for arrow rockers, they are shaft mounted in cylinder pairs, kind of like the factory rockers, and the arrows can't twist and come off of the valve tip like crowers. I have them on my viper, and have several customers using them with no issues so far. Product knowledge is far more important than RUMORS and SPECULATION. Anyone intrested in installing Arrows please give me a call for instructions.
Proper installation is key with any engine component and rocker arms are no exception, and like in Steve's example...sometimes things just happen.
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
Glad to see that nothing was hurt!
As for arrow rockers, they are shaft mounted in cylinder pairs, kind of like the factory rockers, and the arrows can't twist and come off of the valve tip like crowers. I have them on my viper, and have several customers using them with no issues so far. Product knowledge is far more important than RUMORS and SPECULATION. Anyone intrested in installing Arrows please give me a call for instructions.
Proper installation is key with any engine component and rocker arms are no exception, and like in Steve's example...sometimes things just happen.
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
Tom,
What took you so long to join in?
I only know about the Crowers and they seem to be a poor choice. I heard the stories about these rockers failing but had never seen or known anyone that it happened to. Now I know someone!
What took you so long to join in?
Tom,
Thanks for helping to clear the air about the Arrow brand rockers.
Here's the scoop folks; if you replace a stock stamped steel rocker arm (which has two dimples on either side at the valve end which keep the rocker arm centered on the valve tip) with a roller tip design, to keep the rocker arm in place you MUST either have; something to retain the valve tip centered at the end of the rocker arm (stops on either side of the valve tip), hardened pushrods and guideplates to keep the rocker from moving side to side, or use shaft mounted rockers (between two or more cylinders). ANYTHING other than this and the rocker arm WILL slide sideways off the valve tip, no ifs, ands or buts (if you think the holes in the head gasket will retain the pushrod for the long run, think again). If somebody installed roller rockers without ensuring one of the above, they didn't fully understand what they were doing.
If somebody had the Arrow brand rockers slide off as pictured above, they installed them incorrectly. The Arrow rockers use an intermediate shaft between rocker shafts which keeps each shaft from turning side to side. Only if they left out the intermediate shafts would the rockers be able to turn and pivot off the valve head.
The Arrow rockers are fine.
P.S.
I use the Arrow rockers and am not a dealer for them. I have no stake in their product and only want to see mechanical issues like Steve's be properly diagnosed and explained.
Thanks for helping to clear the air about the Arrow brand rockers.
Here's the scoop folks; if you replace a stock stamped steel rocker arm (which has two dimples on either side at the valve end which keep the rocker arm centered on the valve tip) with a roller tip design, to keep the rocker arm in place you MUST either have; something to retain the valve tip centered at the end of the rocker arm (stops on either side of the valve tip), hardened pushrods and guideplates to keep the rocker from moving side to side, or use shaft mounted rockers (between two or more cylinders). ANYTHING other than this and the rocker arm WILL slide sideways off the valve tip, no ifs, ands or buts (if you think the holes in the head gasket will retain the pushrod for the long run, think again). If somebody installed roller rockers without ensuring one of the above, they didn't fully understand what they were doing.
If somebody had the Arrow brand rockers slide off as pictured above, they installed them incorrectly. The Arrow rockers use an intermediate shaft between rocker shafts which keeps each shaft from turning side to side. Only if they left out the intermediate shafts would the rockers be able to turn and pivot off the valve head.
The Arrow rockers are fine.
P.S.
I use the Arrow rockers and am not a dealer for them. I have no stake in their product and only want to see mechanical issues like Steve's be properly diagnosed and explained.
SEASNAKE
Enthusiast
I was able to guinea pig the Arrow rockers and have had no problems in about 4K miles of driving. I don't see how any mildly modified car would have problems with these if they were installed correctly. Of course I had over 34K miles on the set of crowers I took out of my car with no problems at all. There is virtually no performance difference in the rockers, but the arrow rockers should have less of a chance of slipping off and they are considerably lighter than the crower rockers.
One funny thing I recently experienced. I tore apart my mother's 3.0 1994 caravan to replace stem seals and what did I find in it? Shaft roller rockers. Hmm, makes you wonder doesn't it.
One funny thing I recently experienced. I tore apart my mother's 3.0 1994 caravan to replace stem seals and what did I find in it? Shaft roller rockers. Hmm, makes you wonder doesn't it.
dblankenbaker
Viper Owner
Sean or Seasnake... Any dyno numbers for 1.7 rockers on a Gen-1?
SEASNAKE
Enthusiast
Unfortunately I didn't start putting my car on the dyno til reasonably local shop opened up. I already had the Crowers on by this time. I picked up .1sec/1mph in the 1/4 which should be about 10-15RWHP. It certainly wasn't 40.
SEASNAKE
Enthusiast
BTW. The Arrow rockers lost 1 hp and picked up 3 ft-lbs against the Crower rockers.
John N
Enthusiast
Let me add my $.02 here, as it was probably me that Prashant was referring to. I have indeed had recent problems with Arrow rockers on my car, but it wasn't through the rocker slipping off of the pushrod. My problem centered around the adjustment studs in the rockers. Long story short, I pulled the Arrow rockers and returned them with one of the studs in 2 pieces. Arrow has told me that this is the second Viper to suffer a stud failure and they are in the process of revising that piece. Apparently this represents two failures out of over 50 sets installed so far, so it may just be a manufacturing quality control issue, I don't know. Suggest anyone with concerns call Arrow for clarification of their position.
PS, this is neither an endorsement or a slam of the Arrow rockers. I will personally wait a while before going this route again.
PS, this is neither an endorsement or a slam of the Arrow rockers. I will personally wait a while before going this route again.
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