Wide Band Commander - WBO

[KenH]

I have been looking at the various WB O2 sensors setups available to tune my VEC2 with. I have looked at all the ones that have been mentioned on this board and I was about to go with the LM-1 based on cost and ease of use. Recently I noticed a new system on the market and was wondering if anyone here has experience with it yet. It is called the Wide Band Commander and is made by Dynojet. Seems like the ideal setup to me.

Permanent install in the car.

Includes an AFR gauge with 10.0 to 18 range

Bosch LSU4 WB sensor

Warning light output that you can program for rich or lean conditions.

Programmable solenoid output to control NOS or similar (shut it down if you go lean for instance).

0-5ma/0-5VDC analog output for interfacing to other systems.

Monitors RPM, TPS and AFR which you can record and then plot on a PC.

Comes with all necessary sensors, cables, software. You do need to add an LED for the warning light and a switch if you want to turn the record function on/off.

Can be linked to a Dynojet dyno so you can use the same system on a dyno run rather than the less accurate tail pipe sensor.

Lists for $530 and sells for around $475 which makes it the cheapest complete solution I have found. Even beats the LM-1 by the time you add all the pieces to get the same functionality. Made by Dynojet, so you figure they should know what they are doing. Looks extremely easy to use. Now if the VEC2 would just link with the output on this box, you'd be set.

More info on their website at: http://www.widebandcommander.com/index.htm
Any obvious problems with this setup that I am overlooking?

 

[Bad_Byte]

Very interesting, I like this part:

"This output is designed to control the ground circuit on a relay system. The software is configurable to control the circuit based on 1, 2, or all 3 of the WBC inputs. Here's an example, lets say you have a nitrous oxide system on your vehicle. You would tie the "Programmable Relay Output" wire into the wire that provides the ground for the relay on the nitrous system. The WBC software allows you to define the logic as follows - "if TP is greater than 3v, and if RPM is greater than 3k, and A/F is less than 13.2:1" - then go ahead and provide a ground path for the circuit. If you would like to simplify this logic, you could just say - "if RPM is greater than 3k" - then go ahead and provide a ground path. There are many different strategies and logic available with this provision!"

However, I still would like to see a unit that takes input from two O2 sensors (one for each bank) due to the fact that you may have one or two injectors that malfunction on the opposite bank from the one your wide band is operating on. Yeah, OK it is a long shot but it can and does happen.

The question I would have is:

Can this unit adapt to having two wide band sensors monitored at once like the LM-1 can?

Also, how does this unit compensate for different altitudes, temperatures etc.?

 

[KenH]

Good questions!

I downloaded the software and sample files, but it did not really provide any clarification. I sent an email to their tech support. If they respond, I'll post the info. This appears to be a brand new product, so not much info available on it on the web.

I did not know that the LM-1 could be modified to take two O2 sensor inputs simultaneously. Is that an upgrade to their standard product? I didn't see anything on their website.

 

[Bad_Byte]

I did not know that the LM-1 could be modified to take two O2 sensor inputs simultaneously. Is that an upgrade to their standard product? I didn't see anything on their website.

Sorry, I should have explained a little further. The LM-1 can use another LM-1 as an input thereby creating the ability to monitor two O2 sensors and log data from both on one display.

No an LM-1 cannot monitor two O2 sensors straight up. It would make sense to me if it could and in my opinion should have that ability. Even better would be to also include that programmable relay output.

 

[Jack B]

The LM1 auxiliary input option has five 0-5 volt inputs and one tach input, therefore, you can put in any device with that range output. Another LM1 would be an example. I have the oem tach input going to mine, plus, the output from a fuel pressure gauge.

Relative to the need for a second O2 input, if an injector shuts off, that side will force the other injectors (closed loop) to add fuel, therefore, you will not see much difference in closed loop even with one injector off. If you totally lose one injector you will know it.

Common sense would say in open loop you would see a lean condition with one injector off. That is not always the case, if the remaining injectors are supplying an excessive amount of fuel relative to a premapped benchmark value, the PCM will throw a code and that bank will go full rich to protect itself.

 

[Bad_Byte]

Common sense would say in open loop you would see a lean condition with one injector off. That is not always the case, if the remaining injectors are supplying an excessive amount of fuel relative to a premapped benchmark value, the PCM will throw a code and that bank will go full rich to protect itself.

I'm certainly no expert here but because I'm trying to learn, what good is it if a bank goes full rich to protect itself in case of a bad injector if every injector is only affecting one cylinder? I certainly don't disagree with your explaination I simply don't see the logic. If the A/F mixture were shared among the cylinders I could understand but since its directed via the intake to a single cylinder I don't.

Also, in the case of an injector going bad over time (for example its output drops from normal to say 2/3rds normal) how would you detect a lean condition unless you had the ability to monitor that bank and in fact had a baseline reading with known good injectors? (remember gen 1's don't have a crossover) That's why I think there is a need to monitor both banks.

 

[KenH]

Here is the reply from Dynojet on a couple of my questions.

1) Is it possible to link two O2 sensors into the device so that both banks
can be monitored?

2) Is there any calibration ability or does the unit otherwise hold
calibration over temperature & elevation or due to the aging of the sensor?

3) It would be used on a Dodge Viper V10 with two coil packs. I assume the
RPM setting is flexible enough to work in this configuration (probably looks
like a 5 cylinder)?


Logging both exhaust banks?
---------------------------
To answer you questions, the Wide Band Commander does not have capability of
logging two oxygen sensors at the same time. In order to accomplish that
type of logging capability, two units would need to be installed together
with separate logging sessions going.

Any calibration capabilty?
---------------------------
The calibration capability offered by other products, has not proven to be
efficient with the deterioration of the sensor. Due to the fact that the
sensor is fairly inexpensive, we recommend replacing the sensor, once the
readings start to deteriorate. If you re-calibrate the sensor, it is not
going to guarantee that the sensor reads the same as it did when it was new.
Temperature and elevation changes are not going to change the accuracy of
the sensor in the exhaust.

(I requested further info on how you know a sensor is deteriorating vs. the A/F is actually drifting. Also asked how long a sensor can be expected to last if you just replace it based on mileage to ensure it stays fresh)

RPM pickup on our style of ignition?
------------------------------------
With the style of ignition on your car, you are correct in your assumption
that when connecting up to one of the coil packs, we are looking at it like
a five cylinder. Basically we have a RPM divisor in the device settings
section of the Wide Band Commander software. If you had 10 coil packs, one
for each cylinder, we would look at it like a one cylinder and so on. There
is no issue with getting a proper RPM reading from your style of ignition.

 

[Bad_Byte]

Any calibration capabilty?
---------------------------
The calibration capability offered by other products, has not proven to be
efficient with the deterioration of the sensor. Due to the fact that the
sensor is fairly inexpensive, we recommend replacing the sensor, once the
readings start to deteriorate. If you re-calibrate the sensor, it is not
going to guarantee that the sensor reads the same as it did when it was new.
Temperature and elevation changes are not going to change the accuracy of
the sensor in the exhaust.

(I requested further info on how you know a sensor is deteriorating vs. the A/F is actually drifting. Also asked how long a sensor can be expected to last if you just replace it based on mileage to ensure it stays fresh)

I think this reply helps make the case for a "baseline" with known good readings. If the reading seem to be drifting away from the baseline then it would be time to start searching for cause. Possibly bad injectors, or bad O2 sensors, low fuel pressure among others could cause it I believe.

 

[Schulmann]

Any body installed this kit on a Viper ?

I had a look on various kits and this one seems to be the best one available with full RPM/AFR/Logging/Monitoring.

 

[KenH]

Schulmann,
I bought and installed the Wideband Commander from Dynojet. I paid about $475 from one of the Vette on-line parts suppliers. I highly recommend it if you are looking for a system that can be permanently installed on the car.

I mounted the sensor in the lower **** in the belanger headers since it was already available on my setup, though it comes with a **** if you need to add one. I have the A/F gauge mounted on the steering column. I am also using the VEC2, so I ran the 0-5V WBO output into one of the 0-5V VEC2 inputs so I can log the A/F along with my other VEC2 parameters. Since I can pull the RPM and other parameters off the VEC2 as part of its new logging function, I didn't bother hooking up the RPM line or record buttons for the Wideband Commander.

Here are a few pics of the install:

Main box installed next to the silver VEC2. Looks like Sean needs to work on his product branding

WBO gauge mounted on the steering column. The only issue with this setup is that the gauge pod blocks the view of the speedo below about 60mph. After driving with it a while, it doesn't really bother me, though I'd prefer to move it up to the pillar if I could find a decent pod that fit.

Here is a graph showing the Wideband Commander (AN2) input graphed along with some other parameters from the new VEC2 logging software.

You can download the Wideband Commander software from their website and play with it a little, though it doesn't do much without the box attached. http://www.widebandcommander.com/downloads.htm

 

[Schulmann]

GREAT ! Saves $100 on the Dyno.

A few more questions:
How can you get the input from the VEC2 into the WideBandCommander ?

Was the kit complete or did you buy additional parts for the kit ?

When logging data do you have to hook up a laptop to the kit ?

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Hmm I like the analog gauge...but not sure which I would prefer vs the digital gauge read out I have...sometimes, it's hard to look at but quick glimpses gives you an idea of what you got.

 

[C O D Y]

Ken, are you trying to get car of the year to go alone with your member of the year?

Very nice installation!

 

[KenH]

GREAT ! Saves $100 on the Dyno.

A few more questions:
How can you get the input from the VEC2 into the WideBandCommander ?

Was the kit complete or did you buy additional parts for the kit ?

When logging data do you have to hook up a laptop to the kit ?

The kit is 100% complete to install and use the basic functionality of monitoring the WBO2 output on the gauge. If you want the Wideband Commander to log the AFR,RPM and TPS inputs without a laptop, you need to add a switch to turn the logging function on/off while driving. You can then download the results later with a laptop through a USB connection. The complete install guide that comes with the product can be found here: http://www.widebandcommander.com/pdf/WBCInstallGuide.pdf

Knowing what your AFR is without having a way to affect it doesn't do you much good, and that is where the VEC2 comes into play.

Not sure what you mean about getting the input from the VEC2 into the Wideband Commander as you actually want to go the other way. You just wire the optional 0-5V output from the Wideband Commander into one of the several 0-5V optional inputs of the VEC2 and use the VEC2 to capture the Wideband Commander output so it can be charted against the other parameters that the VEC2 knows about. I happened to use AN2 on the master board of the VEC2. Sean added the functionality in his logging software to convert the 0-5V output of the Wideband Commander into the actual air/fuel ratio for me so it can be graphed directly without having to convert in my head.

Any WBO2 with an optional 0-5V output could be hooked to the VEC2 the same way. Sean's latest logging software with a WBO installed in the car really makes tuning the AFR easy, plus it is done on the road under actual conditions rather than on the dyno which most people report does not give quite the same results as on the road.

Sean is also working on the capability to adjust AFR dynamically during WOT operation when a WBO is connected to the VEC2 which would be very cool indeed. The fact that Sean has continued to evolve the VEC2 firmware and add functionality like the logging software and provided updates for free to existing customers is also very cool.

 

[KenH]

Ken, are you trying to get car of the year to go alone with your member of the year?

Very nice installation!

I'm just trying to catch up with Rob! See you guys Thursday?