Will SRT's Marketing Department Kill the Viper Brand?

[hammerofgods]

There is a difference between exploiting adversity and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Unfortunately this difference is lost in translation due to defensiveness of the people taking improvement suggestions personally. Damage control is never nearly as effective as eliminating the problem in the first place.

The difference is probably due to the evolution and expansion of the use of social media and smart phones. Twitter and Facebook are a two edged sword. They may broaden the "fan base" but they also increases the speed at which bad data is disseminated and commented on by anyone and everyone. A feeding frenzy of adverse commentary is quite common these days given the anonymous nature of posting and the tendency to write things that would never be said face to face. Many consider this progress. I think it is a Borg like destructive virus on polite society.

 

[Nine Ball]

There is a difference between exploiting adversity and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Unfortunately this difference is lost in translation due to defensiveness of the people taking improvement suggestions personally. Damage control is never nearly as effective as eliminating the problem in the first place.

Answer one question for us, seriously. If SRT's marketing was brilliant, and the car was unchanged from what it currently is; would you have purchased a Gen V Viper?

If not, then marketing isn't really to blame. Those of us who did buy them, didn't buy them because of magazine articles or commercials. Therefore, marketing is only one reason. We know there are many reasons.

 

[hammerofgods]

I already answered this question. Since Jack is a vivid reader of my posts, he can point you to the relevant post-I am not in the habit of repeating myself.

Answer one question for us, seriously. If SRT's marketing was brilliant, and the car was unchanged from what it currently is; would you have purchased a Gen V Viper?

If not, then marketing isn't really to blame. Those of us who did buy them, didn't buy them because of magazine articles or commercials. Therefore, marketing is only one reason. We know there are many reasons.

 

[ViperSmith]

Tony, stop wasting your time debating 16yo kids.

 

[BigDawg]

I would like to propose the VCA creates a "Complaining about SRT / Gen V" sub-forum, so we have a specific forum for that. Then maybe the Gen V owners and shoppers can use the Gen V forum, as it was intended for. To give feedback about the Gen V, and ask questions about the Gen V.

I've never heard so much complaining about any generation Viper before. They didn't exactly market the Gen 4, either. The magazines didn't exactly love the Gen 4, either - until the ACR came out.

That was my idea! And it's a damn good one.

Oh and I didn't buy a Gen V because it was too expensive currently. $100k is max budget I was currently comfortable with and a loaded GTS is all I would settle for. That's how I am. Instead I bought my SRT Jeep and couldn't be happier. My salary continues upwards and when I reach the point that my pockets are too heavy I'll scoop up a lightly used GTS. Even with all of my complaints I'm still a Viper guy at the core.

 

[Jack B]

What is wrong with you:

1. Approx 50 posts and you know it all.

2. Joined approx 30 days ago and knows it all.

You just made my blackout list.

I already answered this question. Since Jack is a vivid reader of my posts, he can point you to the relevant post-I am not in the habit of repeating myself.

 

[Jog]

" Answer one question for us, seriously. If SRT's marketing was brilliant, and the car was unchanged from what it currently is; would you have purchased a Gen V Viper?

If not, then marketing isn't really to blame. Those of us who did buy them, didn't buy them because of magazine articles or commercials. Therefore, marketing is only one reason. We know there are many reasons. "

Good Point:

And your right...Marketing is not only to blame...Some guys complain about the lack of horse power, but that problem can easily be addressed with the New ACR.....

When I first saw the Gen V at the Reveal Gala in New York in April 2012..I was totally amazed by the car. I must have taken at least 100 pictures of the car. The day after the show I showed a good friend of mine ( who's also a Viper Lover ) the pics I took at the event. She carefully looked over the pics of the car and said: " I'm impressed with the engineering and the specs, but I don't like the car! " {....I almost slapped her when she made that comment }....Then she said..This car was modeled after the Gen.II and it's way too early for a Retro Throw-Back Design. Then she explained that In order for a Throw-Back design to be marketable...the design has to be at least 30 years old ( IE: The New Challenger modeled after the 1970's Challenger = Successful Throw-Back Design )....Then she said the Viper is just Too New for a Retro design; they should've went with a newer more radical design!! I was hurt by her comments...so I pretty much dismissed all of it...

Now fast forwarding to the present and comparing it to the Newer more Radical design of the C7.., I finally understood what she meant. The Gen V parked next to the C7... The Gen 5 just looks dated. At the end of the day...The car has to be visually appealing to the buyer and compared to the new Vette...It is not!!. Realistically I probably would not by the Gen V unless I got it for a steal ( 40% off MSRP ).....This is my main reason for being disappointed with the car....

 

[Bobpantax]

Hi Hammer. I think you are missing an important VCA Forum culture issue. The VCA was recently taken to task by Chrysler for what it called "peculiar behavior". The peculiar behavior included posts that were considered hostile to SRT and Chrysler executives and some letters.

SRT is a small component of Chrysler. Many of us personally know SRT employees through their appearance at local functions, at VOI, and otherwise. We also know that SRT was given a small budget to accomplish a great deal under very difficult circumstances after the Chrysler bankruptcy.

The production of the Gen V Viper was somewhat of a miracle.

Does it have teething issues? Yes. Will they be resolved? Yes. Is SRT aware of the issues? Of course. Have they been working on sorting the issues out? Yes. Do they have the same freedom to communicate about things like this as we do? No. They are subordinate to Chrysler legal and Chrysler Communications Policies.

The bottom line is that you are presuming that you know more than the SRT people do about the car they produced and closely monitor. The analogy is a person who lives far away from a family but thinks that he or she knows more about the children of that family than the parents. Criticism is fine. Respectful criticism is much better.

 

[gtssnake]

Every Viper in its own generation is an incredible car. I give the entire SRT team a lot of credit of making this new car happen. Ralph went to bat for all of us and he should put on a pedestal for getting it into production. The Gen V is beautiful, faster then the Gen 4 plus it has all new technologies; how could anybody not love this car??

Thanks Ralph and the SRT team.

Good Luck and hope this car continues. I have a Gen 4 coupe and I love the car and only wish I had the extra funds to get a Gen 5.

 

[hammerofgods]

Hi Hammer. I think you are missing an important VCA Forum culture issue. The VCA was recently taken to task by Chrysler for what it called "peculiar behavior". The peculiar behavior included posts that were considered hostile to SRT and Chrysler executives and some letters.

SRT is a small component of Chrysler. Many of us personally know SRT employees through their appearance at local functions, at VOI, and otherwise. We also know that SRT was given a small budget to accomplish a great deal under very difficult circumstances after the Chrysler bankruptcy.

The production of the Gen V Viper was somewhat of a miracle.

Does it have teething issues? Yes. Will they be resolved? Yes. Is SRT aware of the issues? Of course. Have they been working on sorting the issues out? Yes. Do they have the same freedom to communicate about things like this as we do? No. They are subordinate to Chrysler legal and Chrysler Communications Policies.

The bottom line is that you are presuming that you know more than the SRT people do about the car they produced and closely monitor. The analogy is a person who lives far away from a family but thinks that he or she knows more about the children of that family than the parents. Criticism is fine. Respectful criticism is much better.

If I understand you correctly, VCA is the inner party and SRT is the big brother? This sounds awfully familiar, I may have to check my literary references. For the record, I have the deepest respect for the premise behind Viper, simply commenting on the implementation of the concept. I was not aware this place was under directives from Chrysler to prevent constructive discussions through all available means but will certainly keep it in mind.

 

[theviper]

If SRT's marketing was brilliant, and the car was unchanged from what it currently is; would you have purchased a Gen V Viper? If not, then marketing isn't really to blame..

If SRT Marketing was brilliant, they would have done their market analysis correctly and priced the car differently. If they did that, more people would have bought it. So again, marketing is to blame, not the car.

 

[theviper]

Every Viper in its own generation is an incredible car. I give the entire SRT team a lot of credit of making this new car happen. Ralph went to bat for all of us and he should put on a pedestal for getting it into production. The Gen V is beautiful, faster then the Gen 4 plus it has all new technologies; how could anybody not love this car??

Thanks Ralph and the SRT team.

Good Luck and hope this car continues. I have a Gen 4 coupe and I love the car and only wish I had the extra funds to get a Gen 5.

+1, but I would add one thing. Ralph, please see that your marketing team may not be up to the task. I don't think this will be resolved regardless of your budget. It is a talent and passion issue. SRT marketing should be naturally passionate about SRT and the Viper...not just because they were hired to do so.

 

[Mopar488]

Marketing could be to blame, not sure. I dont think I ever based my decision to buy a Viper on how it was marketed. I based my decisions on how much I liked the car and if it was a value, in other words how much bang for the buck.

 

[Jack B]

Bob

It does no good to provide logic, the newbies do not care about the car or the history. I hope the VOA forum has a huge garbage can for hammeresque posts

BTW Henkle and Herb were at the Ohio fall party last weekend. They brought a TA.

Hi Hammer. I think you are missing an important VCA Forum culture issue. The VCA was recently taken to task by Chrysler for what it called "peculiar behavior". The peculiar behavior included posts that were considered hostile to SRT and Chrysler executives and some letters.

SRT is a small component of Chrysler. Many of us personally know SRT employees through their appearance at local functions, at VOI, and otherwise. We also know that SRT was given a small budget to accomplish a great deal under very difficult circumstances after the Chrysler bankruptcy.

The production of the Gen V Viper was somewhat of a miracle.

Does it have teething issues? Yes. Will they be resolved? Yes. Is SRT aware of the issues? Of course. Have they been working on sorting the issues out? Yes. Do they have the same freedom to communicate about things like this as we do? No. They are subordinate to Chrysler legal and Chrysler Communications Policies.

The bottom line is that you are presuming that you know more than the SRT people do about the car they produced and closely monitor. The analogy is a person who lives far away from a family but thinks that he or she knows more about the children of that family than the parents. Criticism is fine. Respectful criticism is much better.

 

[Jack B]

Bob

It does no good to provide logic, the newbies do not care about the car or the history. I hope the VOA forum has a huge garbage can for hammeresque posts

BTW Henkle and Herb were at the Ohio fall party last weekend. They brought a TA.

Hi Hammer. I think you are missing an important VCA Forum culture issue. The VCA was recently taken to task by Chrysler for what it called "peculiar behavior". The peculiar behavior included posts that were considered hostile to SRT and Chrysler executives and some letters.

SRT is a small component of Chrysler. Many of us personally know SRT employees through their appearance at local functions, at VOI, and otherwise. We also know that SRT was given a small budget to accomplish a great deal under very difficult circumstances after the Chrysler bankruptcy.

The production of the Gen V Viper was somewhat of a miracle.

Does it have teething issues? Yes. Will they be resolved? Yes. Is SRT aware of the issues? Of course. Have they been working on sorting the issues out? Yes. Do they have the same freedom to communicate about things like this as we do? No. They are subordinate to Chrysler legal and Chrysler Communications Policies.

The bottom line is that you are presuming that you know more than the SRT people do about the car they produced and closely monitor. The analogy is a person who lives far away from a family but thinks that he or she knows more about the children of that family than the parents. Criticism is fine. Respectful criticism is much better.

 

[doctorbob]

None of these threads stay on topic. I like the idea of a separate sub-forum for constructive criticisms of the car, marketing, and SRT. There continue to be reoccurring complains.....list them once and move on.

Jack B.....please make a separate thread with pictures of the TA. THX

 

[Bruce H.]

I've never heard so much complaining about any generation Viper before. They didn't exactly market the Gen 4, either. The magazines didn't exactly love the Gen 4, either - until the ACR came out.

Do you think a lot of the complaints stem from the extremely competitive nature and image of the Viper that are based on performance, the comparisons with other cars that leads to, and criticisms when it isn't seen to be the out-right winner of all?

It's not the winner of performance per dollar, or performance technology, or highest power, 0-60 mph, 1/4 mile times, or lap times at Laguna Seca except for the TA...and the TA's time doesn't seem to matter because everyone is certain that one day a C7 performance model will beat it! MT says it isn't the best driver's car, and other rags don't rate it the best either.

That adds up to more than a little disappointment for those that want and expect it to be crowned the performance king, and lots of verification/justification for those that just don't like it/Chrysler/Dodge/SRT, can't afford it, love their old one more, only love Vettes, etc, etc. That leads to complaints about power levels, price, handling, and whatever else. It's hard to see it as a complete success based on raw performance.

But I'd argue that it is a complete success as a high performance car that offers what no other does. Unique and outrageous styling that is 100% unique to Viper, incredible performance of every kind (except fuel economy), a driving experience like no other, exclusivity due to much more than just sticker price, and perhaps even good value for an exclusive hi-po sports car. When viewed this way the Corvette is in no way a direct competitor, and never has been. I'm sure those who have bought Vipers did so for some of these reasons, and may have also bought Corvettes for other reasons...one of which could be that the Vette is a high performance car that's better suited as a daily driver.

I think all those that think the Vette, GT-R or whatever are better for them should be congratulated on finding their perfect car, and directed to their marques owner's forum where they can participate with other like-minded enthusiasts and owners. Some don't know when it's time to leave, hanging around in an effort to justify their preference and I find the "Ignore List" perfect for tuning out this noise.

But I find actual Viper owner's criticisms to be more challenging as one would expect they are here for all the right reasons. Initially it was common that previous Gen owners/fans didn't like the Gen V styling, or that it had an upgraded interior that it shouldn't, that it looked too much like a Gen II, or that it was too expensive, or that there were two models now, or they had to wait too long to get theirs, etc, etc ... all valid issues for some. And it's some owners focusing criticisms on performance, and frustration with the lack of ability to make it more extreme.

I'm sure some new and prospective buyers would be really happy with the Gen 5's performance and attributes just the way they are, but it's really getting hard to find much that's positive here right now from any group for those doing research into a Viper purchase. Tough situation all around.

Bruce

 

[ViperSmith]

Bruce, I understand where you are coming from.

Not trying to make excuses, but compared to 1996 - we live in the high performance car era. When the Viper first debuted, 100 more HP than anyone was enough to dominate in all categories.

But today, more HP doesn't equate to being a better platform (For those clamoring for more HP). Look at what the Porsche turbo S does, look at what the GT-R does, with less power.

But, they are more straight line monsters than anything. The Viper still wipes the floor with them when you hit a track.

I guess it begs the question, can the Viper (or really any brand) at this point dominate, stock, in all performance categories? I don't think so personally and I think it is a bit naive for people to think that it or any other car can in stock form. Now, the debate of "should be moddable" I agree 100% with.

 

[ViperSmith]

As another point, I also find people clamoring it beat the ZR1 by a hair at Laguna Seca need to read a bit. It took Chevy 5 years of tweaking the ZR1 to run what it did at Laguna Seca, and SRT only let it hold that title for what, all of two months - in the pre-production TA? I think people need to give SRT some credit.

If the SRT/GTS and the TA are the first out of the gate for a defunct platform, imagine what they will do to tweak the car as it moves forward. Personally, I find it to be a fantastic starting point and hopefully it just gets better.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

If the ACR-X was any indication, the next ACR will be mind blowingly fast.

 

[hammerofgods]

As another point, I also find people clamoring it beat the ZR1 by a hair at Laguna Seca need to read a bit. It took Chevy 5 years of tweaking the ZR1 to run what it did at Laguna Seca, and SRT only let it hold that title for what, all of two months - in the pre-production TA? I think people need to give SRT some credit.

If the SRT/GTS and the TA are the first out of the gate for a defunct platform, imagine what they will do to tweak the car as it moves forward. Personally, I find it to be a fantastic starting point and hopefully it just gets better.

What tweaking was done to ZR1? Outside of advance in tires and change in seat design, since 2009, the ZR1 seemed not only unchanged but also a randomly picked car, without special track designation. If SRT had to come up with a special version of Viper to take on 5-year old car, is this car going to be sufficiently superior to the upcoming hi po versions of new Corvette? By all accounts, a base 2013 SRT car with track pack should be the one taking on the outdated ZR1. How many years will it take SRT to finally "tweak" Viper to become a car superior to the current version of competing cars?

 

[Bruce H.]

What tweaking was done to ZR1? Outside of advance in tires and change in seat design, since 2009, the ZR1 seemed not only unchanged but also a randomly picked car, without special track designation. If SRT had to come up with a special version of Viper to take on 5-year old car, is this car going to be sufficiently superior to the upcoming hi po versions of new Corvette? By all accounts, a base 2013 SRT car with track pack should be the one taking on the outdated ZR1. How many years will it take SRT to finally "tweak" Viper to become a car superior to the current version of competing cars?

ZR1 suspension was certainly tweaked to improve handling. Some might say the base viper should be compared to the base Vette, the TA to the Z06/07, and a future ACR with the ZR1. I'm curious what your interest is in the Viper. Are you looking to purchase one in the short term, and in order to choose the Viper in what ways exactly would it have to be superior, and what cars specifically would it have to be superior to? And lastly, how would you determine what car is in fact superior as most tests are pretty subjective.

The reason I ask is that I think the Viper is so much more than performance stats, and I just can't imagine the decision of a serious prospective buyer of a new Viper being influenced by small differenced in performance between the very few sports cars at this high level. Those who aren't buyers can expect the best of everything, criticize everything that isn't, wait endlessly for the perfect car to be built (at a price they think is reasonable)... but those about to buy know that isn't the case, not even with the ZR1, and they buy the one that comes closest in the areas that are most important to them.

 

[doctorbob]

67 posts and an expert......the ZR1 was a ringer from tires to horsepower from GM. Please troll elsewhere. Your post on the Woodhouse thread aptly demonstrates that fact.

 

[Bruce H.]

ZR1 also lost its brakes during its fastest lap...which I don't believe MT ever mentioned. Viper brakes were still good. But unless you're driving it at Randy Pobst's level I'm not sure I'd base my decision on brakes or lap times

 

[hammerofgods]

Again, what were those tweaks? I have seen Gilles complaining about better tires on ZR1 but have not seen anything regarding changing suspension components or their geometry. Should be rather obvious I am looking around for a car, thus, I am looking into it, sharing my observations and continuing to be surprised by the reaction from its supporters. Thank you for your civility.

ZR1 suspension was certainly tweaked to improve handling. Some might say the base viper should be compared to the base Vette, the TA to the Z06/07, and a future ACR with the ZR1. I'm curious what your interest is in the Viper. Are you looking to purchase one in the short term, and in order to choose the Viper in what ways exactly would it have to be superior, and what cars specifically would it have to be superior to? And lastly, how would you determine what car is in fact superior as most tests are pretty subjective.

The reason I ask is that I think the Viper is so much more than performance stats, and I just can't imagine the decision of a serious prospective buyer of a new Viper being influenced by small differenced in performance between the very few sports cars at this high level. Those who aren't buyers can expect the best of everything, criticize everything that isn't, wait endlessly for the perfect car to be built (at a price they think is reasonable)... but those about to buy know that isn't the case, not even with the ZR1, and they buy the one that comes closest in the areas that are most important to them.

 

[Ev1E9]

Again, what were those tweaks? I have seen Gilles complaining about better tires on ZR1 but have not seen anything regarding changing suspension components or their geometry. Should be rather obvious I am looking around for a car, thus, I am looking into it, sharing my observations and continuing to be surprised by the reaction from its supporters. Thank you for your civility.

Hamma,

I believe Bruce H. is referring to the shocks. GM updated the ZR1 with Delphi's latest revision of their MR shocks recently. They are not the same revision of the shocks that debuted on the car. Cup tires and the updated shocks are the key to the ZR1's pace. I'm not sure about the test car being a ringer, but I've posted the following video before. Randy Pobst has many of the same complaints about early ZR1s that he had about the pre-production GEN Vs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObFBtVbe-ug

 

[hammerofgods]

Hamma,

I believe Bruce H. is referring to the shocks. GM updated the ZR1 with Delphi's latest revision of their MR shocks recently. They are not the same revision of the shocks that debuted on the car. Cup tires and the updated shocks are the key to the ZR1's pace. I'm not sure about the test car being a ringer, but I've posted the following video before. Randy Pobst has many of the same complaints about early ZR1s that he had about the pre-production GEN Vs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObFBtVbe-ug

MRC was available on later Z06 if I recall? Most likely new Chinese Delphi owners came up with improvements? I am sure if Mr. Pobst complained, it had something to do with the original Goodyear run flats, still surprised Michelin Sport Cups are not on new Viper after Mr. Gilles blamed the first defeat on inferior tires?

 

[Ev1E9]

MRC was available on later Z06 if I recall? Most likely new Chinese Delphi owners came up with improvements? I am sure if Mr. Pobst complained, it had something to do with the original Goodyear run flats, still surprised Michelin Sport Cups are not on new Viper after Mr. Gilles blamed the first defeat on inferior tires?

Those Chinese ARE crafty. I said both the tires plus the updated MRC were the big difference. Also, MRC was available on the C7 Z06/Z07 package that also included Michelin Cup tires. Pobst turned the fasted lap during Motortrend's '11 Best Driver's Car competition with that set up. I love the Z06. This one of my favorite automotive videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wheEOSdDi9w

 

[Bruce H.]

Again, what were those tweaks? I have seen Gilles complaining about better tires on ZR1 but have not seen anything regarding changing suspension components or their geometry. Should be rather obvious I am looking around for a car, thus, I am looking into it, sharing my observations and continuing to be surprised by the reaction from its supporters. Thank you for your civility.

Ev1E9's post above explains it, and Randy Pobst's very reserved and carefully worded comments can't hide his serious criticism of the Vette's handling at the limit. The Vette was refined and I know refinement to the Viper is coming too.

You may be looking around for a car but you're also very insincere in that you've so obviously ruled out the Gen V Viper based on your comments...

"Generation 5 Viper amounts to refining the steak sauce while the steak itself gets pretty old and stale.

With that said, your suggestions to go back to basics and model Viper after Lotus Elise is not a realistic one either and amounts to cure being worse than the disease. If the economy improves finally, car like this should be produced concurrently with the Viper while the Viper should move into 21st century, utilizing a new lightweight unichassis, stretched wheelbase and more efficient drivetrain (torque tube and transaxle should be mandatory). Since Fiat does not want Viper to surpass Ferrari horsepower wise, new car should shed enough weight to compensate for this limitation. As it is, with no R&D money available, Viper should be laid to rest instead of becoming a laughing stock of high performance world. If Gilles had any integrity, he would can the Viper and limit SRT to hi po variants of mainstream cars."

The only thing you are consistently sharing here is your disapproval of the Viper, SRT, those who support their efforts, and those who want to discuss the car with other like-minded enthusiasts in a constructive and positive way.

I'm glad you appreciate my civility. Had you extended some courtesy on this forum it would have been appreciated as well, but since you didn't then you have been added to my Ignore List.

Since you are a new member, and other members will surely want to do this also, I should explain that you can save yourself a lot of time, aggravation and annoyance by selecting "Settings" at the top of this page, then select "Edit Ignore List", and then add to your list user name "hammerofgods" and ****...those posts will no longer appear when viewing this forum!

Do your part to keep this forum civil...stop feeding the haters and trolls by reading and responding to their posts. Be positive, be happy...put them on your Ignore List

Bruce

 

[hammerofgods]

No insincerity on my part at all. I compared chasis of the previous car with the new one and suspension, they have not changed much at all. The drivetrain is virtually unchanged as well. I am very interested in TA and wish it was finally available in production version along with some independent reviews, including Mr. Pobst. However, I am a bit gun shy due to upcoming high performance Corvette. If TA holds up against it, I see no reason not to try it out. Keep in mind that using R8 as a reference is not very meaningful IMO, a comparable Viper would be a better reference. I personally think that the upcoming Corvette may be keeping a few people back from buying the Viper. And no, I do not recall advocating modeling Viper after Lotus Elise, I think this is not the right direction, especially with Alfa 4C making its appearance shortly. You may be mixing me up with Ian Sharp, LOL.

Ev1E9's post above explains it, and Randy Pobst's very reserved and carefully worded comments can't hide his serious criticism of the Vette's handling at the limit. The Vette was refined and I know refinement to the Viper is coming too.

You may be looking around for a car but you're also very insincere in that you've so obviously ruled out the Gen V Viper based on your comments...

"Generation 5 Viper amounts to refining the steak sauce while the steak itself gets pretty old and stale.

With that said, your suggestions to go back to basics and model Viper after Lotus Elise is not a realistic one either and amounts to cure being worse than the disease. If the economy improves finally, car like this should be produced concurrently with the Viper while the Viper should move into 21st century, utilizing a new lightweight unichassis, stretched wheelbase and more efficient drivetrain (torque tube and transaxle should be mandatory). Since Fiat does not want Viper to surpass Ferrari horsepower wise, new car should shed enough weight to compensate for this limitation. As it is, with no R&D money available, Viper should be laid to rest instead of becoming a laughing stock of high performance world. If Gilles had any integrity, he would can the Viper and limit SRT to hi po variants of mainstream cars."

The only thing you are consistently sharing here is your disapproval of the Viper, SRT, those who support their efforts, and those who want to discuss the car with other like-minded enthusiasts in a constructive and positive way.

I'm glad you appreciate my civility. Had you extended some courtesy on this forum it would have been appreciated as well, but since you didn't then you have been added to my Ignore List.

Since you are a new member, and other members will surely want to do this also, I should explain that you can save yourself a lot of time, aggravation and annoyance by selecting "Settings" at the top of this page, then select "Edit Ignore List", and then add to your list user name "hammerofgods" and ****...those posts will no longer appear when viewing this forum!

Do your part to keep this forum civil...stop feeding the haters and trolls by reading and responding to their posts. Be positive, be happy...put them on your Ignore List

Bruce