Will the 2009 Viper get a HP boost to Head off the ZR-1?

[Bobpantax]

So are you saying that with adding headers/corsa etc., the pistons should be changed
__________________

I am not saying anything. I am reporting what Dick winkles said at our Mar a Lago meeting. Dick Winkles is the SRT engineer who spoke at our meeting. As I said above, Dick said that if you wish to exceed 600 HP, change the pistons. Keep in mind that the Gen IV pistons are not the same as those used in the Gen III. They are the same one's that are used in the SRT 8's.

 

[OppositeLock]

More HP? Has anyone checked the EPA filings for the certification of the Gen 4 Viper engine? These docs usually show a road map for the future Hp and may provide some insight into the future of the Viper...

 

[Nine Ball]

Have any of you guys claiming that the ZR1 will suffer from "heat soak" on a racetrack, ever owned a supercharged sportscar? If you have, you would probably know that heat soak doesn't get worse with each lap. It pretty much affects the power as soon as the engine is at normal operating temp. At that point, the reduction in HP is done, it doesn't continue to get worse. I did 20 laps in my roots supercharged C6 at Road Atlanta, and my car ran very consistent lap after lap. At the drag strip is where heat soak will hurt you more, my car was a 1-pass-wonder then I'd have to let it cool down. Anytime the car was moving (racetrack) the inlet air temps dropped to ambient.

That roots blower on the ZR1 is a more efficient design than the MP112 Magnacharger I had. It will perform just fine on a racetrack. The car will probably just make 20 rwhp less at normal operating temps. Mine made 550 rwhp cool, 534 rwhp hot. About 620 crank HP, same as the upcoming ZR1.

 

[black mamba1]

Have any of you guys claiming that the ZR1 will suffer from "heat soak" on a racetrack, ever owned a supercharged sportscar? If you have, you would probably know that heat soak doesn't get worse with each lap. It pretty much affects the power as soon as the engine is at normal operating temp. At that point, the reduction in HP is done, it doesn't continue to get worse. I did 20 laps in my roots supercharged C6 at Road Atlanta, and my car ran very consistent lap after lap. At the drag strip is where heat soak will hurt you more, my car was a 1-pass-wonder then I'd have to let it cool down. Anytime the car was moving (racetrack) the inlet air temps dropped to ambient.

That roots blower on the ZR1 is a more efficient design than the MP112 Magnacharger I had. It will perform just fine on a racetrack. The car will probably just make 20 rwhp less at normal operating temps. Mine made 550 rwhp cool, 534 rwhp hot. About 620 crank HP, same as the upcoming ZR1.

What were your 1/4 times w/ your C6 s/c set up w/ that rwhp?

 

[ViperGal]

I am willing to bet 75% of those ZR1s don't get out of the collections to be driven. It's a good on paper car, if you like that sort of thing.

Garage Queens - Yuk! Cars are to be driven

 

[PET SNAKE]

Yeah, they probably won't even make the ZR-1 RTTTed ...
beside's who would buy it ???....all talk those corvette guy's

PET SNAKE

 

[RTTTTed]

Actually, when I was at the GM Dealership yesterday (Only GM Dealership has alignment machine that can do Viper?????) the receptionist came running out to my Viper and offered the sales brochure for the ZR1. It's for pre-sale. Neither the Z06 guy or myself accepted the brochure.

I hate to be a spoil sport, but why would I want to go from a 830+hp (crankshaft) to a lowly 620hp? From a Viper to a vette?

My Viper parked in GM Dealership brought Z06 guy (driving past) and 3 employees out to admire my Viper - a vette wouldn't do that.

Parked on the street a couple admirerers walked over and were commenting how hot the car looked. After a few comments I realized that these guys didn't have a clue what a Viper was, they were just admiring the looks of the car. I asked one of them, "Do you know how much hp this car has?" He asked me the weight of the car and said, "I'd think that it'd have to have 220hp anyway." Lol, he was stunned when I told him that MY car had over 800 and all Vipers came with at least 400hp. He walked away in a daze. Lol

Ted

 

[Alexarz]

Chevy engineers outwardly admit that the ZR1 is not going to be their flagship for the road course, that position being represented by the Z06. It's an odd corvette, when considering the history of the car. It doesn't really fit in anywhere compared to the special models of the past. The ZL1 and L88 vettes from '69 were road course cars as well as the fastest vettes made. The former ZR1 was better than the standard vette in every performance category. This new one will be the fastest on a drag strip but not on a road course. Maybe the superior brakes will trickle down to the Z06. Other than that, I think the Z06 is the more desirable car. I expect a short run and a sales failure, ensuing the initial rush. The ACR is the star of this generation of american cars. Vipers have always been more focused and purpose built cars than the crowd pleasing, compromised corvette. The present time is not any different.

 

[Nine Ball]

What were your 1/4 times w/ your C6 s/c set up w/ that rwhp?

11.29 @ 129 mph on 19" runflat tires. The ZR-1 should be quicker since it will be lighter than mine was, and have wider/better tires. My 60' times were crap, 2.0 sec range, wheel hopping.

 

[wallbanger]

YouTube - The First 8 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1s

 

[pcc]

Looks like ordinary vette.Hats off to Chevy for having the wisdom to make initial ZR1 in many paint colors unlike Viper that has still not shown all colors.

 

[VIPER R]

For what it's worth, if you want to compare the new Vette engine and computer to the Ford GT, the GT picked up an easy 100 HP with just a pulley swap and reflash. This may be a big hurt in a year or so as far as the Dyno wars go. If GM goes as conservatively as Ford did, there's a lot of wiggle room for easy HP.

 

[PET SNAKE]

RITTed,I think a new ZR-1 might be admired by many people maybe not a regular vett............
And what a shame you have to take your viper to chevy for alignment!!LOL.

2009 ZR-1 or 2001 viper?? that's a hard choice to make.LOL


pet snake..........

 

[pteam]

The problem with the zr1 is on a summer day to the untrained eye (9 out of 10 people) you look just like every other vette out that day.

 

[Warfang]

The problem with the zr1 is on a summer day to the untrained eye (9 out of 10 people) you look just like every other vette out that day.

9 out of 10? Try 999 out of 1,000. Even the people I know who like cars can't tell the difference. Only the true fanatics can tell, and 999 out of 1,000 is being generous.

Heck... I can't even tell how to spot the LAST ZR-1. Just looks like any other crappy c4 vette. :roleyes:

 

[RTTTTed]

RITTed,I think a new ZR-1 might be admired by many people maybe not a regular vett............
And what a shame you have to take your viper to chevy for alignment!!LOL.

2009 ZR-1 or 2001 viper?? that's a hard choice to make.LOL


pet snake..........

Not a hard choice for me, 830hp or 620hp? 800+rwtq or about 550?

A vette can't even be listed as and exotic since there is so many available. Nothing like a upgraded Gen 2. 8 cyl @ 6L or V10 @ 8L?

As far as high tech goes I bought a portable GPS so that I'll have GPS in all my cars for a hundred instead of spending a couple thou for only 1 car. Bluetooth stereo in my Gen 2 with ipod (for the wife and daughter). Also hardwired my Sirius Sat radio inot my glovebox so that $140/year subscription fee covers both my Stealth R/T TT and my Viper.

I wouldn't trade my Gen2 Viper for a ZR1, even if they offered me +$5,000. I would give an '08 Viper trade some thought though.

Ted

 

[Burntrubber]

I say we wait and see real life comparisons. we all know most people (including me) can't wring out every thing a viper has to offer on the track.
then when 2010 comes along offer a "******** package" in ACR & non ACR form that consists of the following:
Forged Pistons
Roe TMTS S/C with 8# pulley (800hp/850tq)
High flow headers
Quiaffe diff
Upgraded half shafts

Make it a $12k option

Run low 10s from the factory on street tires!

 

[RTTTTed]

"Run low 10s from the factory on street tires!"

Sorry, but that's not likely. There's only a couple Vipers (of any hp) that have made quicker than mid tens on street tires.

$12,000 for upgrades worth more than $20K? No warranty either? That's not gonna happen for a few reasons.

1.Beginning with Daimler Chrsyler doesn't do anything that loses money

2.800-850hp would result in serious injuries and law suits against any manufacturer "considered" irresponsible enough to offer that much power to the public.

3.800hp is enought power to cause serious damage throughout the driveline, costing way too much warranty monies.

4.CAFE/Emmissions doesn't allow that much power with current technology

5.The 'haters' and insurance companies would lobby to get low hp restrictions placed on all cars again (like the 425hp limit during the 60's).

Ted

 

[viperbilliam]

Do we know for sure that there will be 09 production for the Vipers?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Do we know for sure that there will be 09 production for the Vipers?

Yes, and the answer is absolutely. Including ACR's.

 

[Les Quam]

Great news about the 09s.
BTW my local Chevy dealer WILL guarantee me a ZR1. Price is 100K over MSRP. Gotta love these guys a 200K Corvette.

 

[Burntrubber]

"Run low 10s from the factory on street tires!"

Sorry, but that's not likely. There's only a couple Vipers (of any hp) that have made quicker than mid tens on street tires.

$12,000 for upgrades worth more than $20K? No warranty either? That's not gonna happen for a few reasons.

1.Beginning with Daimler Chrsyler doesn't do anything that loses money

2.800-850hp would result in serious injuries and law suits against any manufacturer "considered" irresponsible enough to offer that much power to the public.

3.800hp is enought power to cause serious damage throughout the driveline, costing way too much warranty monies.

4.CAFE/Emmissions doesn't allow that much power with current technology

5.The 'haters' and insurance companies would lobby to get low hp restrictions placed on all cars again (like the 425hp limit during the 60's).

Ted

What, its not nice to dream

 

[Snakester]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned anything about weight so far.
With the Carbon Viper and other lighter concepts using carbon fiber body panels can shave off 150lbs from the Viper without needing any EPA recertification. And losing 150lbs will gain better all around performance than just adding HP anyway, including better handling, and braking in addition to better acceleration. And if the CF body panels were offered as a $25K lightweight package (with matching CF interior trim) I think that it would be a HUGE hit and sell out even more than the ACR package despite the added cost.

I also think that the current ACR will likely beat a ZR-1 around a race track, but of course the ZR-1 will have amenities and features like climate control and traction control that will appeal to the daily driver minded buyers, and to all of the magazine writers who first favor Italian perfomance cars, then cars like the Porsche GT2, then the ZR-1, then the Nissan GT-R, then the M3, then they will begrudingly admit that the Viper is one of the best track cars built if you are willing to suffer through the hot side sills and lack of amenities and traction control.

Only a few writers can truly understand that the focused design of the Viper was done on purpose, and that Viper owners prefer the potent attributes that Vipers have.

The ZR-1 will be VERY fast. But Chevy's VPs already admitted that with the added HP and especially torque, traction will be their biggest issue to overcome (as the Viper has faced for years).
So I think that it's quite likely that the ZR-1 will NOT beat the Z06 in it's 0-60 time, or in handling (if the new Z06 also gets PS2 tires), but it's 0-100, 1/4 mile time and especially mid and top-end performance will easily be superior to the Z06, and definitely a straight line competitor to the Viper.
I also think that the 620HP number will be a low estimate and that the car will be purposely underrated.

Ultimately it will be buyers personal preference between the more daily driver friendly ZR-1 that is shooting to be an affordable Ferrari 599, or the ACR Viper which will never be mistaken for being a $45K car, or anything but a purpose-built racer, and also unmentioned is the fact that the ZR-1 is only being sold as a hardtop, so the Viper still has it beat when the sun comes out and the top goes down (for those of us who prefer that.

 

[pteam]

200k for a corvette hahahahahaha We could have 1500 hp for that price.

 

[Les Quam]

It really is unbelievable isn't it that they think someone will pay 200K for the car.

 

[Nine Ball]

The problem with the zr1 is on a summer day to the untrained eye (9 out of 10 people) you look just like every other vette out that day.

That is very true. When I had my C6, even other C4/C5 owners would ask me if it was a Z06. Just because I had a hood and wheels on it. Even when it was stock (black with comp gray wheels) people would ask if it was a Z06. But, that was mostly because the C6 had just come out, and nobody really knew the difference. But, around Houston the C6's are like bellybuttons for sure.

Of course, I did have some guy ask me "what year Corvette?" my Viper was when I was at a gas station.

 

[jay01m]

Before I start trolling this thread, I want provide a brief background so nobody thinks my opinion is biased. First, I am a proud owner of both a 97 Viper GTS and a C4 ZR1, and hold both Vipers and the Vettes near and dear to my heart. I've also been following the new ZR-1 very closely, and have read just about everything that's been written on the car. That said, I think some of the folks in this thread are in denial on a few things, and others might actually be on crack...

Those commenting on the new ZR-1 and the issues it will have with regards to RWHP, heat soak, traction, accelleration, cornering, etc. need to keep reading up on this car. I don't think many people realize the engineering that went into this car, most importantly the motor and the supercharger. It's probably as much or more than what went into the old ZR1, and the most I've ever seen for any car maker in terms of performance.

Below is a link to a thread on a ZR1 forum that has probably the most comprehensive report on the ins and outs of the ZR1 and its engineering (especially the drivetrain). I credit John Rovner, the owner of the forum and a long standing corvette and F-body tuner, with compiling it...

2009 ZR1 - Team ZR-1 Corvette Racers

The biggest thing I see on here is everyone talking about heat soak. GM addressed this with oil sprayer system that keeps the pistons cool, which happens to be one of my favorite features about the car. That is just the tip of the iceberg with what GM has done with this motor. Another amazing thing they've done is run an LS9 engine for 100 hours continuously at wide open throttle and done both simulated and real 24-hour track cycles similar to what the GT1 C6.Rs run on the dyno and in the car. There is also a rumor that the engine has undergone an endurance test similar to what Lotus & Mercruiser did to the LT5 engine on the old ZR1 and passed with flying colors.

I gotta tell you folks, you can forget heat soak, engine durability, and most of the other issues that have been brought up; GM has pulled out all the stops on this one and produced a car that is really over the top, and in my opinion will run circles around the Vipers.

This is GM's final Hail Mary with the big cube motors, and I anticipate Dodge may try to do the same, because the days of V8s/V10s is going away. We are going to start seeing smaller boosted applications thanks to EPA and CAFE standards our ******** government is imposing on the car makers.

I'd hang onto your Vipers folks, because if I were a betting man, I'd bet that the Viper's days are numbered... TCC Blog » Blog Archive » Dodge Viper Could Be History. These may be worth some cash some day if/when it goes away.

Again, this is my opinion, and we all know opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and it stinks. But in this case, the proof is in the pudding, and if you take a closer look at the engineering behind the ZR1, it becomes easier to believe that the car is capable of living up to the hype.

Just my $.02.

 

[jay01m]

Oops, sorry, not sure why the filters didn't work.

Ok, flame suit on

 

[vipeuup]

Before I start trolling this thread, I want provide a brief background so nobody thinks my opinion is biased. First, I am a proud owner of both a 97 Viper GTS and a C4 ZR1, and hold both Vipers and the Vettes near and dear to my heart. I've also been following the new ZR-1 very closely, and have read just about everything that's been written on the car. That said, I think some of the folks in this thread are in denial on a few things, and others might actually be on crack...

Those commenting on the new ZR-1 and the issues it will have with regards to RWHP, heat soak, traction, accelleration, cornering, etc. need to keep reading up on this car. I don't think many people realize the engineering that went into this car, most importantly the motor and the supercharger. It's probably as much or more than what went into the old ZR1, and the most I've ever seen for any car maker in terms of performance.

Below is a link to a thread on a ZR1 forum that has probably the most comprehensive report on the ins and outs of the ZR1 and its engineering (especially the drivetrain). I credit John Rovner, the owner of the forum and a long standing corvette and F-body tuner, with compiling it...

2009 ZR1 - Team ZR-1 Corvette Racers

The biggest thing I see on here is everyone talking about heat soak. GM addressed this with oil sprayer system that keeps the pistons cool, which happens to be one of my favorite features about the car. That is just the tip of the iceberg with what GM has done with this motor. Another amazing thing they've done is run an LS9 engine for 100 hours continuously at wide open throttle and done both simulated and real 24-hour track cycles similar to what the GT1 C6.Rs run on the dyno and in the car. There is also a rumor that the engine has undergone an endurance test similar to what Lotus & Mercruiser did to the LT5 engine on the old ZR1 and passed with flying colors.

I gotta tell you folks, you can forget heat soak, engine durability, and most of the other issues that have been brought up; GM has pulled out all the stops on this one and produced a car that is really over the top, and in my opinion will run circles around the Vipers.

This is GM's final Hail Mary with the big cube motors, and I anticipate Dodge may try to do the same, because the days of V8s/V10s is going away. We are going to start seeing smaller boosted applications thanks to EPA and CAFE standards our ******** government is imposing on the car makers.

I'd hang onto your Vipers folks, because if I were a betting man, I'd bet that the Viper's days are numbered... TCC Blog » Blog Archive » Dodge Viper Could Be History. These may be worth some cash some day if/when it goes away.

Again, this is my opinion, and we all know opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and it stinks. But in this case, the proof is in the pudding, and if you take a closer look at the engineering behind the ZR1, it becomes easier to believe that the car is capable of living up to the hype.

Just my $.02.

There was alot of engineering with the Ford GT. And it still heat soaked.

 

[jay01m]

There was alot of engineering with the Ford GT. And it still heat soaked.

The engineering that went into the Ford GT motor doesn't hold a candle to what went into GM's LS9 motor.

I'll assume you didn't read the write up I posted in the link since it only took you 5-minutes to respond to my post. The link is probably 6 times as long as my post. Again, I recommend you open your mind a little and read up on the ZR1 more.