'06 vs '09 SRT-10 Coupe

[BenDiem]

To all previous '06 owners who purchased an '09; pls validate my perceptions, or am I alone in my observations?

I've only had my '09 for about a month. However, while keeping my foot out of it for the first 500-1000 miles, I noticed this weekend that the '09 appears to have significantly less torque below 4000 rpms than my old '06. I'm aware the initial torque curve is lower on the '08 and newer snakes, but wow, I did not think that I would notice the difference, considering the '08 - '10 has more displacement. Displacement usually translates to more torque down low... I suppose that I'm surprised that my old '06 felt stronger down low than my new '09.

I also noticed that when starting the car in 2nd gear, after a slow roll, the torque is not there, so I have to give the car more gas to compensate for the lack of torque, unlike my old '06.

Am I also the only one that thinks that the new transmission (TR-6060) is still a little clunky/tight. I'm also somewhat surprised by this b/c my other car also has the new TR-6060, and it shifts much smoother and tighter. The biggest improvement the TR-6060 has over the old T-56 is engaging reverse. Soooo much easier with the new tranny!

I miss the '06's easier (lighter) to disengage/engage the clutch. Moreover, the '09 clutch disengages at the top one third of clutch travel. My '06 disengaged at about half way.

Lastly, the CAGS comes on and stays on the '09 a lot longer than the CAGS in my other car? In other words, I'm frequently hitting the dreaded 1>4 skip shift in the snake, but I rarely engage it in my other car? I can't understand this. I drive both cars the same way. I'll have to buy a fuse to get rid of the CAGS in the snake, but I've never hit the skip shift in my other car. This is annoying! I don't want to add a CAGS skip shift eliminator or anything like that b/c I'm not mechanically inclined. Any suggestions on fuse removal or fuse purchase?

I'm not complaining, it is just an observation. It is perplexing/amazing how mechanical things have so many different tolerances, idiosyncrasies, and feelings.

Did anyone else have the same observations? Outside of the above, absolutely luv the new snake, but will/may have to chalk up my observations to the character of the new car...

Cheers,

BB

 

[Bobpantax]

The Gen IV transmission has a bit more NGR. It is a more robust transmission than the Gen III transmission and the increased noise is a trade off. The issue is discussed in the owner's manual of the Gen IVs and has been mentioned on one of the SRT Engineers' chat sessions. As far as torque and the skip shift, you might want to consider puting headers on your Gen IV with the Mopar offroad controller. If I am not mistaken the Mopar offroad controller does not have the skip shift function. The header and controller mods are tried and true and have been discussed extensively on this site. You can expect to pick up about 65 HP and gain some improvement with respect to the power under the curve. If you post where you are located, we can recommend an experinced installer to you.

 

[Twister]

Thanks for the heads up and this is very interesting..

I have a 300 HP 1991 nsx and a 550 HP 03 srt10..

For the life of me I cant figure out why when daily driving from stop light to stop light ect. The lowly poiwered nsx just feels faster..Significantly faster..

Dont get me wrong I know that if I let a buddy race me in my nsx while I drove my viper by just 100 mph I would be 50 yards ahead. I get that much..

But for regular driving the nsx just feels and really is much much faster..

I suspect for the same reasons you are describing in a sense.

Ive noticed that my nsx is geared very very very agressivly. I belieave a 4.06 rear end from the factory and tes even 5th gear is very usable at 40 mph...

Your snakes were both geared the same but the 03-06 makes nearly as much tourque stock for stock on a dyno (I think the 06 makes around 490 rwt while the 09 makes around 530 rwt) But the 03-06 seems to make it much lower and at all times weather the cam is in vtech mode or not (sorry about the vtech thing but it kinda fits rights) simply because there is no cam in cam tecnology with the gen3's it's just always there.

So the same way my nsx feels faster for daily driving is why I suspect your gen3 felt a little more pleasing. I mean really how often to you floor it in these types of cars? verses how often do you just take a nice lil cruise.

Really makes you wonder if the gen1 and gen2 guys are onto somthing..Sure at WOT they cant really match a gen3 or 4..But down low for everyday driving they are actually a lil more fun

 

[09 Venom]

Benito, sorry to disagree with you but the CAGS feature on my '05 kicked in much sooner than my '09...

 

[TrackAire]

Well I didn't own a Gen 3 before my 09, but I did drive multiple units and can tell you this much.

The Gen 4's do not have any torque down low...or at least it feels that way. The primary reason is the way the engine is controlled by the computer for emissions. It is very slow to rev up and it is even slow to rev down. As you might have found out, as soon as it hits 4500 rpms it's like somehow hit a nitrous button. Some blame the drive by wire, but it's the computer. I own 2 diesel trucks that are drive by wire and they are lightening fast in throttle response compared to the Viper. I feel it is all in the programming.

I was sceduled to install the Mopar computer last Friday but decided to wait another week and took some sound bites so others can hear the Gen 4 with the ACRX headers and stock exhaust. The Mopar computer will allow the car to rev up a little faster (no emission concerns) and not dump fuel in it on deceleration (to keep the cats lit up.) You'll lose the popping sound you now hear. Also, you will get rid of the skip shift that I hate. The only way to get rid of the skip shift is to go with the Mopar controller. So the low end feel that you think is missing is more of a timing/fuel issue than our motors actually not being able to make power....to me they are not allowed to make the power down low. Also, your car will loosen up at around 2000 miles and feel a little more snappy. I am working on fixing the sucky throttle response, should be able to post up the results in about 2 weeks.

My biggest disappointment with the car is the tranny. There is no reason a car of this caliber should have a clunky trans. I don't think the problem is entirely the transmission. Some guys are trying different fluids, different clutch fluid, etc. I'm trying some experiments too, I post them up if they help. Don't forget, this is a dual disc clutch vs the single disc on the Gen 3's.....they do "feel" different and have a unique engagment.

Last, I'm changing gears to 3.55's with an OS Giken. The 3.07 gears **** when stuck in 2 hours of stop and go traffic. On a Gen 4, I do think they'll make the lack of low end feel be less because you'll rev up a little faster.

Enjoy you're new ride.

Cheers,
George

 

[Bobpantax]

Be very careful about experimenting with different transmission fluids. ATF-4 is the fluid prescribed for the Gen IV tranny. A heavier fluid might reduce the noise but it could also damage the transmission in fairly short order. I would not use a different fluid without first consulting with someone who is an expert regarding the Gen IV tranny.

 

[alpha85]

08 Belanger headers, exhaust, Mopar PCM, 93 octane. 595rwhp, 560rwtq.

 

[Twister]

Bigpower..very nice

 

[BenDiem]

Great replies...

Any advise reference a fuse/which fuse/where it is located, to remove, to get rid of the CAGS? Will removing a fuse set off a service code? I'm on the fence with this issue. Do I just deal w/it or should I just buy the CAGS eliminator???

Tks Gents!

Cheers,

BB

 

[fqberful]

Great replies...

Any advise reference a fuse/which fuse/where it is located, to remove, to get rid of the CAGS? Will removing a fuse set off a service code? I'm on the fence with this issue. Do I just deal w/it or should I just buy the CAGS eliminator???

Tks Gents!

Cheers,

BB

Just get the skip-shift eliminator, they work very well and take about 2 minutes to install.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Funny thing about the skip shift eliminators. Used one on my 03 with no problems. Put one on my 06 and I threw a manufacturer specific code and set the check engine light. Don't remember the exact code but it was a transmission failure code of some kind. Took the eliminator off and the car's been fine ever since. I just learned how to drive it so it doesn't engage the skip shift. My 08 rarely if ever hits the skip shift. My 06 seemed to hit it more often.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

For what it's worth. I felt the same way going from the 2000 GTS to the 2005 SRT. The SRT is faster in the the end but the GTS felt quicker at the lower rpm's.

 

[fqberful]

Funny thing about the skip shift eliminators. Used one on my 03 with no problems. Put one on my 06 and I threw a manufacturer specific code and set the check engine light. Don't remember the exact code but it was a transmission failure code of some kind. Took the eliminator off and the car's been fine ever since. I just learned how to drive it so it doesn't engage the skip shift. My 08 rarely if ever hits the skip shift. My 06 seemed to hit it more often.

I have one on my 06 coupe and never been an issue. But I do know that they are not all created the same. Some of those CAGS eliminators do not work properly, they have a different resistance. The issue is even more pronounced on the Challengers, but the one I have there works like a dream as well.

 

[TrackAire]

From what I remember, I don't think anything will work on an 09 except the Mopar computer for removing the skip shift.

Also, I do not recommend getting away from the trans fluid type recommended...but there are alternative trans fluids that might work better than stock (Redline, Motul, etc). I'm also doing some work outside the trans to see if it helps with the clunky-ness.

I might just do a "test only" smog check on my car after the Mopar controller is installed just to see what it registers. When I had to get my 09 smogged since it was an out of State purchase, it comes back as a low emissions vehicle. Blew me away that you can make 600 hp NA and burn that clean, and I live in the most strict smog test area of California...If it passes here, it'll pass anywhere. The downside to uber low emissions is sucky throttle response like we've already discussed.

My guess is that it will not pass smog with the Mopar controller.

Cheers,
George

 

[B & R]

TrackAire, I live in Texas and have an 08 coupe and to pass the emissions testing here you will need to keep the stock module and reinstall it and drive about 100 miles before inspection. Also be sure to have a full tank of gas, for some reason it helps.

Richard

 

[TrackAire]

Richard,

Thanks for the tip about a fuel tank of fuel...I didn't know that could help. I'll let you know what she puts out.

Cheers,
George

 

[sniper1]

Richard,

Thanks for the tip about a fuel tank of fuel...I didn't know that could help. I'll let you know what she puts out.

Cheers,
George

This is true because the tank has less gasses and pressures on the cap and cooler fuel going into the engine because of more cooler liquid fuel available.

 

[Hamrhead]

I had an '06 Coupe that I traded for an '08.

Definitely less grunt in the low rpms, but more than makes up for it after 4,000!!
Compared to a Throttle cable on the '06, Throttle-by-Wire *****.

I had a DC Tune in my '06, and now the Mopar PCM in my '08, so the skip-shift feature was/is disabled on both cars.

Though I did just purchase a skip-shift eliminator for my '05 CTS-V - Once I jacked the car up I installed it in about 5 minutes.

Biggest thing with the Viper is you may have to remove the underbelly panel that covers the trans/driveshaft in order to get at the plug on the transmission.

 

[Darbgnik]

Thanks for the heads up and this is very interesting..

I have a 300 HP 1991 nsx and a 550 HP 03 srt10..

For the life of me I cant figure out why when daily driving from stop light to stop light ect. The lowly poiwered nsx just feels faster..Significantly faster..

Dont get me wrong I know that if I let a buddy race me in my nsx while I drove my viper by just 100 mph I would be 50 yards ahead. I get that much..

But for regular driving the nsx just feels and really is much much faster..

It's understandable to perceive it that way, IMHO it's based more on engine characteristics than gearing. The engine makes so much torque everywhere, there is none of that top end rush excitement.

My V-twin sportbike feels the same way, when compared to an inline four, the torque is there all the time and it's kind of deceiving. Can make you think you are going significantly slower than you are. And all of a sudden theres a corner, and you're going a little too fast........

Also, wasn't the original skip shift eliminator just 2 dead ended connectors to seal water out with no resistor in it?
Seems like all you would have to do is measure the resistance of the skip shift mechanism and put in a resistor.
Although I'm guessing and could be missing something.

 

[EZ 2B Green]

The skip shift can be eliminated on 2008 and older Vipers using the eliminators (plugs/resistor) but starting in 2009 there is a PCM diagnostic that will detect the lack of a skip shift if one is called for by the system. After a few+ detections of no skip shift the PCM will set a diagnostic code. For those of us that live in states that download the PCM codes via OBDII for state inspection, this can be a problem.