TexasPettey
Enthusiast
I did, when I paid the check for my stuff. Shop around, don't be in a hurry, and it's possible to do that setup in the $10K budget.
1996 GTS - need more power, any suggestions?
- Thread starter finnsnake
- Start date
I did, when I paid the check for my stuff. Shop around, don't be in a hurry, and it's possible to do that setup in the $10K budget.
?? So...is the 450 rwhp?
Figure the following =Top end job (parts only )Headers and Exhaust 3000.Ported Polished and Flowed Cyl Heads (complete with larger SS valves and performance valve job 4000-5000.Forged Cam 750.00. Throttle Bodys 600.Intake Manifold Work 500 .DFI 1000.In hard parts ALONE you have 10s Now add ,labor ,Dyno tune time, various soft parts(gaskets, oil,air filters,plugs ect) i dont know how you can do a TOP END perf job for 10 grand correctly without skimping.
Please tell me exactly extensively what parts and included labor came in your kit for 10 grand .For example how complete and extensive was the head work (were they ported ,flowed and polished.Were bigger valves installed with a good valve job and top notch Rockers,Keepers ,Springs ect )What cam and DFI are you running ect .
Wow guys, you really know your stuff! Tons of great info shared here and thanks to all you who PM'd me too. After some thinking I have my mind set to keep the 96 bone stock and buy another GTS!!! I have a nice 99 black GTS in sights with 633RWHP and 14K miles on it... Let's see if I can close a deal on it, looks like it really is a buyers market now!
Once again (in reference to the above car 633 RWHP an )if that horsepower statement is coming from engine thats nat asperated its not worth the paper its written on .VERY FEW street driven Vipers (in years of racing i have NEVER seen one )have made that kind of power on MOTOR ALONE.That kind of power should equate to a high 130 mph trap speed on stock tires in the quarter )Before you buy the car make the seller provide you with a engine build sheet because if its true the guy probably spent over 50 grand on the engine on GTSR parts.Also anyone that builds that kind of motor has at some time taken it to the track -get the run slips from him as there has to be a power adder involved (probably NITROUS )and if thats the case the RWHP numbers make sense.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
Even your coveted 96 B/W has dropped $10-15k in value the past two years, so do what you want to the car you want. The resale prices are dropping like rocks, esp the 08's. Sports cars make lousy investments. Just do what you want and enjoy it. If you can buy one modded the way you want, more power to you. Half to fun is customizing your car, and if the $$$ isn't that big a deal (say $10k v $15k). Enjoy it. Make sure you like who you are working with, and they are close to home. You will spend a lot of time at the race shop. Just my 2c. 
Interesting as I have the same skepticism on this as you do. Here's what I was told by a reputable shop: In addition to my mods in my sig, this shop wants to replace my creampuff pistons with JE pistons, increase the compression ratio (not specified), port/polish the stock heads (including new valves, retainers, springs, etc.), install a 708 cam, no other bottom end changes, no intake changes, and no fuel system changes. They told me I should be getting 600-650 rwhp but I don't buy it.
Tony NO WAY IN THE WORLD they can make that power with those mods you described flat out you would be lucky with 500-525 to the wheels.My OLD GTS with a much better heads, larger cam than a 708 and the full bottom end done (complete blueprint ect )made around 560-570 to the tire.Ask the shop if they will put in writing a GUARANTEE of a trap speed (which should be in the high 130s on stock tires for the kind of power they are quoting )Like PLUM said over 625 ish you are going to run out of fuel.(need entire fuel system )To put it in perspective a full blown Gen 2 race engine (open header,dry sump,solid cam ,individual TB manifold probably was around 675 to the tire on race gas and that engine was over 60 grand
TexasPettey
Enthusiast
Headers and CAT-Back can be had for $2.5K, easily. I got mine for less than that. I have Edelbrock, so there may be something there vs other 1 3/4" headers. I would doubt there is much performance difference. Don't know if a Gen1 CAT-Back is cheaper than a Gen2 for some reason.
Greg did my heads, flowing 305CFM on the intake, new valves, springs, etc. You can get his full job for $4K or less. Quite a bargin, considering the cost of lesser jobs.
My throttle bodies were $450, but I got a great deal. They may be questionable need on a Gen2 car. I haven't seen a statement of need of larger TB's on a Gen2.
Assume about $750 for gaskets on a Gen1. Gen2 should be cheaper.
$1000 for a VEC-3, although you can get one for less than that.
Rocker arms are $800.
A final tune is probably $300, if you start with a good tune with the engine management unit.
The rest is labor on the install.
So, if you go back to my original statement, here is my breakdown.
GG Heads - $4K
CAM - $750
VEC3 - $1000
Headers - $1500
CAT-BACK - $1000
1.7 Rockers - $800
Labor & Tune - $1000
$10K. If you look hard, and aren't in a rush, you can get it for less.
Note: I can't verify any claims of 600RWHP on a Gen2. I only have the 708 CAM on my car, so I'm not going to get near 600RWHP. I was merely commenting on the cost of the setup, as it is much more affordable than many people believe.
EOF
Exactly also you are definately not getting top notch parts for some of the prices he quoted (T&D Rockers alone are probably 1500 .)When the HEADS were done were they equipted with Larger Manley Severe Duty Valves ,Behive springs,*** Keepers and retainers .(also forgot plugs oil,gaskets tax ect )As far as labor 1000 PLEASE
PS if you add the forgotten incidentials plugs, coolant ,Mobil 1, filters (200) Gaskets 750 Tax approx 600-700 and a realistic labor cost (most shops get at least 100 per hour and this complete with dyno tuning has to be at least a 16 hour job)1600 you can add an easy 2200 to that 10 grand price.
crazyspeed
Enthusiast
OK, That's $10,050.00 but you have to add in the gaskets $600 and pushrods $100 and spark plugs $95 ..so now it's $10,845.
$100 pushrods?
The basic Trend pushrod will set you back $300 or so. Don't be cheap on pushrods. Rockers...same thing there. Plan on $1,500 or so for new T&D's or $2K for Jesel. Don't forget AB's wires. Wheres your MoBIL 1 ,filter tax -ECT.
Exactly they are forgetting MANY incidentals which quickly ADD up .What are they doing for a timing chain kit.$100 pushrods?
crazyspeed
Enthusiast
OK, so it's $12,000.......still a good deal on a great set-up. Not everyone wants a blower or a turbo.
600 RWHP? sounds high. ...but 575 RWHP is still a lot for the street ,verdad?
600 RWHP? sounds high. ...but 575 RWHP is still a lot for the street ,verdad?
Your not getting a realistic 575 with that set up without touching the bottom end .If you add ALL the incidentals its more like 14000 grand
Once again ALOT of people are making claims here without adding EVERYTHING needed to thoughly complete the job.Once again ALOT of people are making horsepower CLAIMS throwing numbers around (575 RWHP)that are are fantasy)It does not work like that .I had close to 30 grand in my old Gen 2 that did very well in competition (4 Straight Mopar Atl Championships )on motor alone barely made 570 to the tire with alot more (bottom end done )parts and better (MOPAR Street Strip HEADS ) then are being listed above.
This was my build sheet.Crower lightweight rods Ross forged alum pistons (11.1 compression )Crower Stage 2 cam. Mopar street strip heads (complete with the best of everything T&D rockers Crower springs pushrods keepers )70 mm throttle bodys .Intake Manifold cut in half, ported ,Extrude honed flowed)Ballanger headers Borla exhaust =no cats Kand n Filter Perfect Power DFI .Rotating assembly Blueprinted and balenced .Heads ported ,flowed valve job performed by Crower motorsports.Head bolts replaced by studs Hi flow radiator and thermostat
crazyspeed
Enthusiast
I get a lump (in my throat ) every time I visit Jeff Morys site and look at the dyno sheets for Striker heads on Gen II.
Over 700 lb.ft tq
and 680 hp with stock rods and stock fuel/injectors and stock wet sump and stock intake( that was 9.8-to-1 compression on 91 octane pump.
Jeff offered me a KILLER package deal this year of his Striker heads (I chose 10.25-to-1) AND Jesel rockers AND pushrods AND JM secret camshaft ( roller hyd) AND sparkplugs . I am embarrassed to tell the price..but let me say it was thousands less than you can guess.
All I can say is that whatever Jeff is selling...I'm buying ( and I did).
Of course I had to get ign wires from AB
Over 700 lb.ft tq
and 680 hp with stock rods and stock fuel/injectors and stock wet sump and stock intake( that was 9.8-to-1 compression on 91 octane pump.Jeff offered me a KILLER package deal this year of his Striker heads (I chose 10.25-to-1) AND Jesel rockers AND pushrods AND JM secret camshaft ( roller hyd) AND sparkplugs . I am embarrassed to tell the price..but let me say it was thousands less than you can guess.
All I can say is that whatever Jeff is selling...I'm buying ( and I did).
Of course I had to get ign wires from AB
We keep going back to the same thing ALL those DYNO power numbers mean absolutely NOTHING .What does your above package trap in the quarter on stock tires .ANYONE can CLAIM anything as far as numbers go .You can not claim a trap speed either it does or doesnt.Flat out if your car is making the kind of number thats stated show me a trap speed of at least 136 plus in the quarter on stock tires .Years ago Lingenfelter made a few 550 Cu Strokers (we are talking hugh money ) and they NEVER made the power your stating with over 60 cubes more than your running.I get a lump (in my throat ) every time I visit Jeff Morys site and look at the dyno sheets for Striker heads on Gen II.
Over 700 lb.ft tq
Jeff offered me a KILLER package deal this year of his Striker heads (I chose 10.25-to-1) AND Jesel rockers AND pushrods AND JM secret camshaft ( roller hyd) AND sparkplugs . I am embarrassed to tell the price..but let me say it was thousands less than you can guess.
All I can say is that whatever Jeff is selling...I'm buying ( and I did).
Of course I had to get ign wires from AB
Ps this man Morey is making over 50 hp and 75 lbs torque to the tire more than i ever made with a stock bottom end,no intake manifold work and alot less compression.That is a lot of power when we are talking nat asperated both engines running HYD cams.
