1998 RT wont start after winter storage

[Jason Fischbach]

Hi Guys,

I have a 98 Rt and upon taking it out of storage it wont start. Im trying to figure out what the issue is before taking into the shop (I do have the service manual) Heres what its doing and heres what I have done so far to trouble shoot

The car would just turn over with no attempt to start or run. It was apparent the battery was weak from sitting since Nov. 2012. I put a jump on it a few times with my charger and my other car and the only difference was it turned over faster. The battery was left in the car with ground taken off. Probably not a good thing. Tested battery it was bad. Replaced battery. Same thing.

I did have an alarm issue that was resolved by the dealer. It was a bad ground from the key switch in the the storage cubby draining battery and acting as if the alarm was on (stalling at low rps when driving) found issue problem resolved. Still thinking there could be a new issue with alarm. I have gone through the alarm for the most part everything seems ok but I still dont trust it.

After talking to my tech and going through service manual i have started to look at fuel issues. Relay parts are hard to come by as everyone already knows. So i have been testing them according to the manual so far I have 14.62 v at battery, 16.00v at front jump point, the front relays check out, the fuel pump 25 fuse in rear is good. I am still testing the fuel pump relay in rear except for the last test, powering it up, but the prior tests look as though its good to. I will also check fuel pressure later today.

I dont think I hear the fuel pump activating but Ill listen again today.

A couple observations. I notice that with a full charged battery at initial start up it almost doesnt want to start then it turns over super slow (as if the battery is dead and isnst going to like its hung up or out of time or something) but then after 2 seconds or so it starts to turn over ok and thats all it does. It seems like there is a big draw on the starting procedure at first.

When i was initially trying to get it started the starter was clicking but that was before the battery was changed.

The car has 16000 miles if that even matters.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Ahh I did forget 1 thing. After numerous attempt to start at the key on position the alarm led was on steady. i disconnected battery and haven't seen it on since.



Jason

 

[99 R/T 10]

Although probably not the problem, I would re-sync your key fobs. Probably wuld be a good idea to get a new battery too. When you turn the key on, do you hear the fuel pump run for a second or two?

 

[Coloviper]

My 96' RT is going in for the BIG service since I bought it 7 weeks ago. Mine takes 10 to 15 seconds of solid cranking before it starts when cold or sitting for more than 2 hrs. It is like it doesn't get fuel on start in that scenerio. After it starts, it sputters for 60 seconds and then fine. Starting hot, it fires after 1 second of cranking. Driving there is zero hesitation, etc. so only this issue on cold start. I hear it charging fuel pump after each turn of key but problem is still there when cold start or even warm start, but not hot.

Not sure what issue is, but we are changing every fluid, every filter, spark plus wires, battery, etc., etc. and tuning. Not sure it is anything with the factory alarm as the few times I have opened the door with the alarm on, it just disabled the starter completely and would not turn over. Seemed that after about 2 mins with a cycle of on/off of the alarm, door lock with key fob, it resets and starter is engagable again.

Now someone who had the car before me put in a big kiddie stereo so not sure what I will see this winter when we replace, fix and clean that all up. I don't think it is affecting the starting problem but I do know battery has a drain or battery has just outlived it's life. A quick look, it appears to be original and I will be replacing. Also have new Viper keys and fobs, just have to be cut and programmed.

I will let you know if I find anything out.

 

[Jason Fischbach]

Quick update:

I still have to finish checking the fuel pump relay but I'm not hearing the fuel pump come on at key on and I checked fuel pressure with a rented auto zone gauge and not 1 psi registered. Attached gauge, released pressure, and turned car over a few times. Then I left for a bit and came back and there was 2 psi registering from just the line pressure I presume. So Idk maybe it's the pump.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Try simply unplugging fuel pump relay...then reinstall it...seating it firmly.

 

[Jason Fischbach]

Hmmm thanks for the reply. I have unplugged it a couple of times now but Steve your post got me thinking. Shouldn't I hear the fuel pump relay in the trunk click just like the others up front? If you turn on fogs relay clicks lights relay clicks brights relay clicks key to on or try and start the trunk fuel pump relay is silent. Also I'm not sure but the initial start up is still really weak at first as if it doesn't want to turn over then it does

Thanks Guys

 

[Steve-Indy]

I wonder if you are getting current to the relay?? Time to test relay socket since I recall that some sockets of that vintage (earlier Gen II's) have failed in other locations, thus requiring rewiring or replacement.

Any rodents around storage area?? They DO nibble!!

Good luck !!

 

[Jason Fischbach]

Ok I have power at the relay. Measured 15. something. The relay still isn't clicking "on" or "opening" like the other relays do. I pulled out the fog relay and the lights obviously don't work so I'm hoping to finish testing the fuel pump relay tomorrow I need to get 2 more wires to test it. Maybe it's not the pump but the relay. I can only hope but then again what are the chances.

 

[98RT98]

16 volts at the front jump point and 14.62 volts at the battery something not correct. i would LOAD test the battery. you can barrow a load tester at most part stores or take the battery there to test.

 

[Jack B]

Bad voltmeter or on a charger

16 volts at the front jump point and 14.62 volts at the battery something not correct. i would LOAD test the battery. you can barrow a load tester at most part stores or take the battery there to test.

 

[Jason Fischbach]

Update:
I have been screwing around with this myself and have been troubleshooting the car in my garage. I have been in contact with the viper tech and heres where I'm at. I have tested and verified all fuses and relays and power point sockets within the car to include specifically the fuel system. I just jumped the relay socket to manually engage the fuel pump because that has been the problem (car wont start, fuel pump is not coming on and no fuel pressure). As soon as I jumped it (ignition off) it came right on i could clearly hear it. So something is keeping the pump from going on and the car from starting any more ideas? I do have the service manual which is a huge help. Otherwise I may just tow it in.

Also the volts were a bit high do to just having removed it from the trickle charger. Its back to the 12.3 -12-8 range

Thanks Guys

 

[Jason Fischbach]

Hey guys I'm with the viper tech and the drb scanner isn't recognizing the engine but it did recognize the security system. Anyone ever have this happen? Maybe it's the computer ? We are going to keep trying to get them to connect. Thanks

 

[Steve-Indy]

Yes, one must first check the continuity between the DLC (OBD II port) and the PCM...but, I have been worried about your PCM after re-reading your post following your excellent trouble shooting updates. My worry is based on the statement: "I put a jump on it a few times with my charger and my other car..."
I have posted in the past about blowing the PCM on Gen II Vipers by using the "boost to start" switch found on many battery chargers (that can typically provide 50 Amps up to 200 Amps depending on said charger)...admitting that I do NOT know that you did this to your car. While my rough count of blown PCM's under this circumstance is nearly a dozen Vipers...I have also seen it on a 1997 Dakota truck.

HOPEFULLY, this is not the case...but it "smells" the same to me.

 

[Jason Fischbach]

Hey Steve,

Yep, I totally did the engine start thing, my charger goes to 60 amps max. To make matters worse I did it to a bad battery! We checked OBD PORTS to PCM and we have power and grounds (continuity) every thing is checking out ok. So I'm assuming I am going to need a PCM. Who would I go to on the forums to get one? My tech is going to verify a couple things just to be sure but he is leaning the same way you are Steve. I went as far as I could go without the computer. At least he makes house calls.

Jason

 

[Steve-Indy]

I must say that YOU have done more than most could/would do on a Viper at home!!

Best of luck!!