2003-2006 Viper SRT-10 Roe Racing Supercharger Kit Revealed

[ILLSMOQ]

An overlay would be nice...but in eyballing the graphs it seems to me that the Roe only has around 35 ftlbs more than a paxton car from 2500 up to 3500 rpm from 3500 and up the paxton makes more hp and torque. Am I missing something where is the HUGE torque advantage (or disadvantage as some call it)? Anyway I have winpep files I can send to Sean if he would like to overlay his blower with a close to stock paxton.

Did we talk about heat soak yet and how this blower is affected?

I really like the Roe and if I didn't already have the Paxton I might have gone that route instead since my buddies have paxtons and I'd want to try something else. Also the lack of a "piggy" back spark/fuel system is another cool advantage. I don't like the tubes up top though...they take away from the cool look of the blower I think.

Very cool set up Sean! get some video up I want to hear how it sounds!

 

[Nader]

Guys we all know that it is impossible to compare dyno runs from different dynos so comparing Seans run to a paxton car is only useful to see power under the curve. We all know the benefits of the two. Before we all jump the gun and declare which is better, lets wait for some real world results. This thread should stick to the Roe introduction and information and questions about the Roe.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I was responding to the request from Sean for a dyno data file for a Paxton.

“Sean did you ever get a dyno run for a paxton to overlay? How do you came it against the paxton? The torque benefit is obvious but how do you compare the HP curve? My initial thoughts is that yours looks smoother and more linear. What about peak hp numbers? Most paxtons are in the low to mid 6 range. From your chart you are just under that. Is that simply due to differences in dynos or runs? Side by side, your car vs a stock paxton, what happens?”

No, nobody ever provided me a Dynojet file so I could lay it over.

 

[MikeR]

Sean - here is a Paxton file on a Dynojet for you to overlay. Stock except Mopar Race exhaust.

You must be registered for see images attach

I have many more if you need them.

Seans graph wasnt a STOCK Roe , it had a SCT tune. Which we all know is good for 20-30rwhp and 40 rwtq easliy. Sure he includes it with his kit, but its like Paxton including one of DC Performances PCM downloads. It will definately net more power.

 

[ViperTony]

Guys we all know that it is impossible to compare dyno runs from different dynos so comparing Seans run to a paxton car is only useful to see power under the curve. We all know the benefits of the two. Before we all jump the gun and declare which is better, lets wait for some real world results. This thread should stick to the Roe introduction and information and questions about the Roe.

Agreed. Let Sean speak.

 

[twinturbo3150]

I think alot of decision's will boil down to the ease of installation for the do it yourselfer. I have been on the fence about getting the paxton, but from talking to people about the install has somewhat scared me from getting one. Installation of the Roe alone just might be the selling point for me

 

[Fast Too]

I have about 20k miles on mine,ILLSMOQ has almost 20K miles on his, 2002ACRJon has like 22k miles on his. These cars have been driven hard, see the track and redline often. And they are still rock solid. So when I hear people say I want power down low, who wants to have to rev it like a Paxton to feel the power, you just dont know. You honestly dont want to shift when driving a Paxton car, it just keeps pulling. Its a awesome feeling. The Roe looks to have a good curve, but only hitting 600 rwhp, isnt goin to do it. Thats 100 more then most N/A, lightly modded Vipers. Where as with Paxton, I now have about 190 rwhp additional.

Plus one in VA, but I think your seeing about a 150rwhp gain at the wheels with the Roe over a completely stock car. In my case I have jumped 280rwhp from the base dyno when my car was stock by going to Paxton and other bolt on's. The motor is still completely stock and holding well. I periodically do leak down tests on the motor to make sure the big bang isn't emminent. Anyway the Roe is a nice looking setup I have to admit.

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks GR8 ASP for the Dynojet file. I just downloaded it, but haven’t opened it yet.
Part of the reason for the release at VOI versus just posting dyno graphs was to gauge what people thought. Please remember, the system here is what I built for my car, not someone else’s and not with someone else’s money. I’m really taking the time to listen to what people say about it, like, dislike or want to see different or more of. It’s not as though there are 50 of these sitting on the shelf. This was a one of one and frankly, nothing is set in stone. This was all hand fabricated and no fixtures have been made yet.

In regard to how it drives, it’s not like comparing a Gen1 or Gen2 higher boost version of our kit. This is a lower boost application than those comparing it to an 8 psi setup, which does come on harder because of the higher boost. The engine acts like stock, but bigger (more power everywhere).

I will say that it’s very difficult to truly compare the two styles of SC when they are not running the same boost level (centrifugal versus positive displacement). The nature of the curve is about the only thing you can really get a good impression of. A stock Paxton kit seems to be running between 8-9 psi up top and continues to make more boost with RPM (the nature of a centrifugal blower). With that style, it is going to pull higher into the RPM because it’s making more boost with RPM. We aren’t that style, and that’s nothing against Paxton, we’re just different.

In regard to the dyno graph comparison I posted, note that the shop car was fully tuned in NA trim. All tweaked out on timing and air fuel. The SC graph is also tuned. It doesn’t matter on the power if that tuning came from a VEC, a reflashed PCM or SCT. All that matters is that the fuel and timing curves are correct. If I wanted to show a bigger difference, I would have used a graph of the shop car with the stock PCM program in NA trim (I could post one just to show the difference). However, what I wanted to show was what the blower was worth in power, not tuning.

I’ll take a look at the Dynojet file I downloaded and see how it compares. Also, there seems to be vast differences between what people post about their Paxtons. It seem that the out of the box kit on a stock car may be about 620 RWHP and 600 RWTQ or so, where others or tuned ones are about another 70 more RWHP.

In regard to when any will be ready to ship out, I’m willing to make kits according to what people want for their cars. So, I have to listen to what everyone one is saying and look at the demand versus costs to produce (which I have to float). Additionally, I have other things going on, like a shop move within seven weeks, which really ***** since I have 17 years of shop to move. Making these kits for other people will probably be more of a winter project at this point. It’s not what I’d like to say, but its reality.

Regards,
Sean

 

[Nader]

You are missing the purpose of the SCT tune. Instead of a secondary add on management computer to add fuel, timing etc, Sean was able to adjust the stock computer programming using the SCT to increases these variables. So no more VEC3. No secondary fuel pumps or split second box as on the paxton either. It makes for a much cleaner install as well. I must commend Sean for that.

Seans graph wasnt a STOCK Roe , it had a SCT tune. Which we all know is good for 20-30rwhp and 40 rwtq easliy. Sure he includes it with his kit, but its like Paxton including one of DC Performances PCM downloads. It will definately net more power.

 

[MikeR]

You are missing the purpose of the SCT tune. Instead of a secondary add on management computer to add fuel, timing etc, Sean was able to adjust the stock computer programming using the SCT to increases these variables. So no more VEC3. No secondary fuel pumps or split second box as on the paxton either. It makes for a much cleaner install as well. I must commend Sean for that.

I completely understand how it works. I agree it is a nice setup and less crap to faill like the SS box or fuel pumps. Makes installation alot eaiser too. Very nice work!!! But my point was, its still already tuned in that graph. A SCT tune on a stock car nets better results. Just like a stock Paxton gets alot better with a SCT tune. I could care less if its part of the package and what makes it work, it is still tweaking the engine managment and no longer stock. So take a Paxton oterwise stock and SCT tune it and it wil put down more power and torque then the Roe, probably around 650ish rwhp/620 rwtq.

The Roe looks great, but i like the stock look of a Paxton. Ive had many ask if thats how it cam from factory. ILLSMOQ did such a clean install, alot of things are hidden, so it does look factory. But if your going to pop that hood and show off a nice piece of work, I think it needs more power. Part of the reason alot of people do the Paxton is POWER. If I only wanted 600 rwhp/600 rwtq, Id have done heads and cam package and be done. I raced a Z06 with heads/cam at about 600 rwhp, he walked me when he stayed in 2nd and I started in 3rd. They have alot better gearing and hold power longer. We slowed down a bit, I got into 2nd and he was in second also, I then pulled him , but it was because of the power up top. Now if Roe is listening and hasnt built any yet, then maybe he will still make a few more tweaks and we might see some Roe Gen 3's at 650 rwhp. That would be nice. I hope he ends up making something and getting it on the market soon. Theres very few Gen 3's left that arent already TT or SC. Had this kit come out 3-4 years ago like the Paxton, I think we would see a even 50/50 split.

 

[ViperTony]

You are missing the purpose of the SCT tune. Instead of a secondary add on management computer to add fuel, timing etc, Sean was able to adjust the stock computer programming using the SCT to increases these variables. So no more VEC3. No secondary fuel pumps or split second box as on the paxton either. It makes for a much cleaner install as well. I must commend Sean for that.

More importantly wasn't the SCT tune also used to get an optimal AFR so the engine doesn't blow up? I thought tuning, at least in regards to utilizing a safe and optimal AFR/Timing curve, was something that is mandatory after any type of blower installation to prevent the engine from going *****?

 

[Coloviper]

Sean;

Thank you for continuing to answer questions and evolving this kit. As I stated before, I have three things that I need to have worked out in my head before purchase. I think your cost point is right on so that is not my concern:

1. It appears to be high altitude ready from your description but does the computer programming have to be dyno tuned for this high altitude for the fuel torque curves, etc. or is it a strictly plug and play arrangement. I had a positive displacement blower on a 1999 Saleen and had to jump start it on a 13,000 ft pass South of Telluride once because the O2 readings were not jiving with the O2 table in the program. It required a custom program for the Rockies and a re-flash of of the PCM. Saleen drove my car around the Rockies to develop the program for all cars shipped to high altitude locations. Burnt once in my life, so double checking again.

2. On Twin turbo cars, they seem to put the filters way down low in the front, almost hidden behind the fenderwells. It is very clean looking. Had you looked at other options for that tube routing to hide the filters for future kits? Honestly that is the only thing I don't like about your present kit from an asthetics point of view. Can you route them into a factory 2008 airbox since that has a twin tube assembly whihc would allow for a factory Kn filter arrangement or something. It would look much more factory and very clean at that point.

3. You talked about warranty, but from an emissions standpoint are their any concerns if the only mods are a full Bellanger set-up together with your blower arrangement?

Thanks
Rick

 

[GR8_ASP]

Thanks Sean. I did look extensively at your setup while at VOI. Nice work. Very impressive system. My only concern was the filter placement but that is easily remedied with a box of sorts. As we discussed years ago my concern about IAT placement has now been remedied making control more functional for widely varying conditions. If you had this system back in 2004 I would have had a difficult decision to make.

It may seem that Paxton owners are defensive but I really do not think that is the case. Many have had them for years and grown to enjoy the characteristics. No doubt the character of the centrifugal and the positive displacement are different. The Paxton kit does have some big weaknesses such as limited capacity aftercooler system which is good for street romps but not for drag strip type heat loading, continuous top speed driving or track driving. This can be improved with larger or multiple radiators but limited to the capacity of the water to air cooler. Added losses due to not being on the vacuum side of the throttle body also provide a higher loss in fuel economy and added heat buildup during use.

All-in-all I expect fairly comparable overall performance using a dyno, and for vehicle testing if, and this is a big if, the Paxton has upgraded the aftercooler system.

 

[Sean Roe]

Thanks for the continued input.
That's a great idea about the '08 air filter housing being a possibility and I'm not familiar with where people are putting the filters on the turbo cars (haven't seen one or a picture, but it sounds like I should look for one).

To address Colovipers questions:
1. I don't foresee any real trouble with the altitude since we're now using the stock PCM and a 2 bar MAP sensor, but testing at high altitude may give me a good excuse to take a vacation and head out somewhere to test
2. Covered above.
3. Regarding emissions, I see no trouble passing an OBD2 readiness test or sniff test now (with the blower). Your exhaust may make a difference depending on what you have, but if it passes with the exhaust before the blower, it will pass after. Just don't let them pop the hood and a do a visual check
I'm very thankful you guys are giving input and asking questions. When I built the Gen2 kit, I built it for my car and only later found out that people wanted to take it farther than where I did. Back in that day, there were no mail order SC kits around and if you wanted 550 RWHP it was going to cost you at least $15K. I"ll take the time going in on this one to build it the way you guys want, since this will be for you, not me. Mine's built

Regards,
Sean

 

[Nader]

Sean again awesome job. Looks like you need an 08 airbox and some pics of the placement of the air filters in a twin turbo setup.

I see one of these in my future... Love it!

 

[redlineviper]

To say I miss photo shop is a understatemnt. Here is a quick rendering of how close the 08 would use the inlet pipes.

 

[Shandon]

To say I miss photo shop is a understatemnt. Here is a quick rendering of how close the 08 would use the inlet pipes.

Now your just teasing us. I can see that coming together and looking realy Bad Ass! If not the 08 airbox maybe something similar. Astheticly it brings all your attention to the S/C with the side tubes and not the big filters. I like where this is going.


Question for Sean:
1. I have a vec 3 as many others do already. Does the SCT flash control anything when the car goes into closed loop I.E. WOT as this is where the vec begins to take over. Probably too much to answer in type on the board here but its a question. I know you said it can be used just curious as to any benefit from having both or just use one.

2. At what level does the S/C absolutly need intercooling? Can it safely go to 7.5 or 7psi? Is 6.5 on the extreme of conservative or do you consider that the perfect number without intercooling? I know you said 8psi up needs it.

 

[stopltracr]

I thought of a great way to settle the debate of Paxton vs Roe. All that I need is a donated Roe Supercharger kit and a donated Paxton. I've got easy access to a great mechanic and a dyno. I'll compare my car stock, with the Paxton, and with the Roe and make a few dyno pulls with each and a few runs at the track for comaprison. I know it's a lot to do but I'm willing to make the sacrifice for everyone else.

So...who's first to donate a supercharger kit?

 

[plumcrazy]

i like how sean is going about all this. he's got a ""well tell me what ya want and i'll build it attitude""...VERY KOOL !!!

 

[99 R/T 10]

I talked to sean about the possibility of W/M in conjuction with a 8lbs pulley. Anything is doable and I think it would make a world of difference(50HP/70TQ). This is what I gained on my car(99RT/10) by using W/M. The only issue I see is that the rods/pistons ont eh 03-06 are such trash(along with the oiling issues), it would be taking a bigger risk, but that's life, right?

I bet 650/670 is possible

 

[xjrguy]

i like how sean is going about all this. he's got a ""well tell me what ya want and i'll build it attitude""...VERY KOOL !!!

I concur 100%.

Thank you for the R & D work, the support of the SRT10 community and for an all around customer-centric attitude.

 

[Coloviper]

Thanks for the photoshop;

That is what I was referring to. It then uses stock KN Filters in a stock 08' air filter housing that should be large enough to cram enough air in there hopefully for the set-up, and would look pretty near factory supercharged.

The stock air filter housing could have the 8.4L part shaved off (for us 8.3L types which this kit is targeted) and a very nice, professional, classy and small metal raised letter (Silver and Red) Roe Racing or ROEcharger plaque over top that little area that was shaved off on the filter housing top. Extremely professional and factory looking at that point.

All that would be left is to take that polished kit, paint the blower and rear TB assembly a nice factory silver metal flake high heat temp engine paint color, take the polished pipes from back to front and paint them semi-gloss black, used black rubber tubing and clamps for connecions (so they hide when looking at the motor) and place some small raised letter metal Supercharger emblems (in red, kind of like what Saleen does on their blowers) on each side of the blower near the top where it is flat on the 45 degree angle side.

Wow! Then all the attention is on the blower and the tubing and airbox/filters hide away, except on the airbox Roe plaque which stands out so you see whose kit this is, which I believe is important too.

With the complete kit, provide some red raised letter Supercharged emblems for the side of the car skirts below the SRT-10 emblems in tthe same red as the rest of the kit decals is the cherry on the cake.

Just some thoughts, but I am really liking what is happening here.

How about photoshoping some of those changes please?

 

[JAY]

Very nice super charger package, myself and a few others would be very interested in this kit if it had 8 to 8 1/2 lbs of boost and **** injection. I know I speak for all of us when I say it would take the Paxton Kit out of the equation, if that where the case!! Well Done Jay

 

[Limit]

Wow. Great job Sean!

 

[Bobpantax]

Hi Sean, the stock Paxton kit stats are a bit higher than the ststa you mentioned. I think that you should assume 650RWHP/600RWT on a dynojet dynamometer. The many results posted in the past and Mark J's results, when converted from Mustang dyno numbers, show a clustering of data around 650/600. Of course your system begins to produce monster torque at lower RPM. What's your best guess on when you will have a product to sell after you finish tweaking and beta testing? One more question on another subject. Have you considered developing a twin screw supercharger kit for the SRT8 cars?

 

[Nader]

From what Sean mentioned, if you match the 8psi of the paxton, the roe kit will hit the 650rwhp range. He is currently running a conservative 5psi.

Sean what was your decision making process when you decided on 5psi?

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Everyone,

Wow, I see what you guys mean about the filter housing. It really does shift the focus back to the engine and away from the filters. Aesthetics was never my strong point. As a racer, I didn’t care what it looked like, as long as it made the car fast and worked. Thanks for enlightening me.

Answers below:

“1. I have a vec 3 as many others do already. Does the SCT flash control anything when the car goes into closed loop I.E. WOT as this is where the vec begins to take over. Probably too much to answer in type on the board here but its a question. I know you said it can be used just curious as to any benefit from having both or just use one.

2. At what level does the S/C absolutly need intercooling? Can it safely go to 7.5 or 7psi? Is 6.5 on the extreme of conservative or do you consider that the perfect number without intercooling? I know you said 8psi up needs it.”


1. Wide Open Throttle is open loop actually. The “loop” is the PCM looking at the oxygen sensors and adjusting the fuel pulse, then looking at the oxygen sensor voltage again. Open loop is just pre-programmed. With the SCT reprogramming the stock PCM, we can do everything we need to run the engine properly with larger injectors, 2 bar map sensor and boost in both open and closed loop modes.
2. Charge cooling with a Twin Screw Compressor is beneficial above 8 psi. Between 8-9 psi is a bit of a transition area. By the time you get to 10 psi, the air is getting hot enough that you have to get either more aggressive at reducing spark advance or you have to cool it if you want to maintain the advance (which is where more power is at).

“What's your best guess on when you will have a product to sell after you finish tweaking and beta testing? One more question on another subject. Have you considered developing a twin screw supercharger kit for the SRT8 cars?”

Hi Bob,
I’m working out the schedule now. The shop move and being spread thin (which is something I’m trying to remedy with a downsize) will be a minor hindrance. I’m keeping the names of those that have called and emailed in order on a list, like I did in 2002 for the Gen2 cars. Once I get everything sorted and make some changes based on everyone’s input, I’ll contact these folks. Suffice it to say, the hard work is over at this point.
Regarding the Hemi’s, yes, I’ve considered it and I think it would be fun. I’ve been approached about it, but for the last few years, I’ve struggled with being so busy that I couldn’t seem to get the big jobs or really important things done, getting bogged down in lots of little tasks constantly. Hopefully, with the move and reduction in overhead, farming out all the machine work to job shops again, I can focus on what I really need to be doing. I’m getting back to the core of what I do. Let’s hope it shows!

“Sean what was your decision making process when you decided on 5psi?”

The thickness of the material above the top piston ring land on the stock pistons.

 

[Bobpantax]

Regarding the Hemi’s, yes, I’ve considered it and I think it would be fun. I’ve been approached about it, but for the last few years.

Interesting Sean. If you ever get a kit together for the SRT8 Jeep, please post.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Regarding the Hemi’s, yes, I’ve considered it and I think it would be fun. I’ve been approached about it, but for the last few years.

Interesting Sean. If you ever get a kit together for the SRT8 Jeep, please post.

I would buy one for sure. there was someone making a twin screw for the srt-8's a short time ago but don't think it ever came to fruition.

 

[redlineviper]

I would buy one for sure. there was someone making a twin screw for the srt-8's a short time ago but don't think it ever came to fruition.

I charger, they tanked. This is the only one I know of. Sean if you made one of these for my Jeep my daily driver would kick butt. Keep us posted sean. Thanks