250 miles in on my Viper - a few things I don't like...

[Viper Specialty]

No offense, but I had no malice towards you. Not sure why you'd be so abrasive to a whole new set of potential customers. It is pretty off putting.

And I have no real malice towards you. But if you want to post inflammatory commentary pointing blame at me for not following internet protocol when you were the one who had it backwards, I am going to say something.

With regard to the second part, who is this "whole new set" of customers? You and this other guy keep turning this into a generalized Me Vs. Gen-5 thing. Get a grip. The fact is, everything I have said is directed towards ONE person, not even the car directly, period. In general terms, the customer is not always right. I will bend over for and defend respectful people, customers or not. But, I have no problem calling it how I see it, and I refuse to kiss butt to make a sale. I choose to be straight with people, regardless of the consequences. It costs me some sales, sure... but it also prevents a large majority of the hassles from customers I never wanted to have in the first place. I would say my *maybe* half dozen big-hassle customers over the past TEN YEARS seems to show that it works relatively well.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I fall into the boat wondering if he even owns one and is a fantastic troll.

Uh... if this was directed towards me, that would be a big LOLOL

 

[ViperSmith]

Uh... if this was directed towards me, that would be a big LOLOL

Yeah.

 

[ViperSmith]

And I have no real malice towards you. But if you want to post inflammatory commentary pointing blame at me for not following internet protocol when you were the one who had it backwards, I am going to say something.

With regard to the second part, who is this "whole new set" of customers? You and this other guy keep turning this into a generalized Me Vs. Gen-5 thing. Get a grip. The fact is, everything I have said is directed towards ONE person, not even the car directly, period. In general terms, the customer is not always right. I will bend over for and defend respectful people, customers or not. But, I have no problem calling it how I see it, and I refuse to kiss butt to make a sale. I choose to be straight with people, regardless of the consequences. It costs me some sales, sure... but it also prevents a large majority of the hassles from customers I never wanted to have in the first place. I would say my *maybe* half dozen big-hassle customers over the past TEN YEARS seems to show that it works relatively well.

I've simply brought up my thoughts on why the Gen V appealed to me.

Last I checked, we aren't in the Gen III/IV forums. So, quite apt we discuss the merits of the Gen V in the Gen V forum, in a thread discussing the Gen V.

This thread is a train wreck, peace out.

 

[doctorbob]

So much for trying to bring some reason to this thread. Twenty years of viper ownership and I am being advised that I know nothing of viper history, viper owners, corporate individuals, and the various generations......by individuals who have become owners/ members in the past year.


Best wishes and drive safely over the Fourth.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I've simply brought up my thoughts on why the Gen V appealed to me.

Last I checked, we aren't in the Gen III/IV forums. So, quite apt we discuss the merits of the Gen V in the Gen V forum, in a thread discussing the Gen V.

This thread is a train wreck, peace out.

Ah... so, again, you miss the POINT of everything I posted being that PeerBlock is uninformed, and all you see is that I was turning this into a "Dan vs. Gen-5" thing? Convenient.

You are right. This thread is a train-wreck. People selectively interpreting things tends to cause that.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Yeah.

OK... so let me get this straight. The "Enthusiast" with a join date of June 2012 is calling a Multi-Viper-Owner, Viper Vendor, Sponsor, VCA Venom Member, February of 2002 ViperClub.org veteran a "Troll"?

That is the funniest thing I have seen all day! Thanks for the laugh.



And with that, I am out of here for now. This thread is the definition of arguing over the internet. I have things to do... you know, like building a few Viper engines. I will try really hard to pretend I dont know what I am doing for you guys.

 

[troublemaker]

Yes, it's also the first Viper worth owning. How about that? I'm enjoying it very much.

Lets face it, it's really is the first Viper that just about anyone can own.

Keep arguing with Dan, he doesn't know squat about Vipers.

 

[Sonoman]

Back toward the original topic-- re: the dead pedal, it is curved but then so are the other pedals. I personally feel that with a thin-soled shoe the curved pedals feel better and let you know where you are on the pedal. Yeah, for freeways a big, flat dead pedal might make more sense, but then the Viper wasn't optimized for freeways, in general. Think about it-- the foot pedals and the steering wheel are your interface with controlling the vehicle-- a good car will dance with you without stepping on your toes. I found my lap times went to hell (in a shifter kart) with the wrong shoes, so your connection with the pedals is important! If anything, I would like the dead pedal up higher to minimize time to the clutch. It sounds crazy, but try driving your Viper on the street with a set of Sparcos on yer feet and tell me that doesn't make a difference...

On other topics... try going onto any forum (cars, bikes, hi-fi speakers, crossbows-- anything) and say to them "This is the first Xxxxx worth owning" if you really want to push people's buttons. That line ought to be in the book of Trolls, especially coming from someone who has never owned another variety of Xxxxx.

 

[Ev1E9]

Yes, the SRT version is just that, and thats fine. I already said, even *I* would get the GTS version if any. However, my point was that I would not talk down to previous Gen-1/2/3/4 or G5 SRT owners if I did simply because they dont have the same gizmos that I do. I would not say that the previous generations are "not worth buying" as I know first hand that is flat out nonsense.

If you want my honest opinion, they went wrong by not having enough power, and made the car look too much like a Gen-2. They went with a "safe" body style rather than pushing it forward or going more extreme like the GTS-R is. with 750HP and a GTS-R-like body, they could have put a price of 125K base + tech options without blinking, taken back the recognition with regard to power, and had a body exotic enough to pull new people and push forward, while similar enough to the Gen-2 to appease those buyers.

Ok. Perhaps we'll see a more extreme look if SRT builds a GEN V ACR. Also, do you believe SRT will be able to squeeze 700+ hp out of the current engine?

 

[Stealth]

Dan Lesser for President.

+1 Dan is a solid guy, very knowledgeable a great to business with--I also happen to agree with him. I have a generation 4 and I am very glad that the Viper continues with generation 5. generation 5 is technically marginally better than generation 4 and you will get few arguments from generation IV owners on this point.

the problem is that we had hoped for more in terms of styling and performance- luxury is fine but the styling and performance are really the heart of Viperness.. those of us who want more for generation 5 simply love Viper and hope that it will evolve to a higher level in terms of performance and style but NOT at a higher price ..the generation 5 design is a step forward just not the step that we were anticipating but nevertheless it is a step forward and SRT is to be commended.

 

[PeerBlock]

However, my point was that I would not talk down to previous Gen-1/2/3/4 or G5 SRT owners if I did simply because they dont have the same gizmos that I do. I would not say that the previous generations are "not worth buying" as I know first hand that is flat out nonsense.

Stating that I personally don't consider a previous gen viper to be worth buying is not talking down to anyone. Jumping into a thread and accusing someone of talking down to you because you didn't read the other posts is basically what you did. For ME, a car that is in the Viper's price range has to meet certain criteria beyond performance alone. If I just want a stripped down vehicle that goes fast I don't need to spend $100K to get there.

If you want my honest opinion, they went wrong by not having enough power, and made the car look too much like a Gen-2. They went with a "safe" body style rather than pushing it forward or going more extreme like the GTS-R is. with 750HP and a GTS-R-like body, they could have put a price of 125K base + tech options without blinking, taken back the recognition with regard to power, and had a body exotic enough to pull new people and push forward, while similar enough to the Gen-2 to appease those buyers.

The Gen 5 has a very distinct appearance that easily draws attention. Not sure how going more extreme would be a good thing. The less-is-more approach works well and its proportions are already comical. They also did a great job with the subtle design cues to the actual snake that the car is named after, like the tail lights and the shape of the mesh in the vents (looks like snakeskin).

I am not even going to bother typing a long-winded response to this drivel. You have severe reading comprehension difficulties, and are arrogant and ignorant to the Nth. You started this whole thing with YOUR idiotic side commentary spewing from the ****** of uninformed immaturity. You do not care to understand, nor possibly are even able to comprehend what I or anyone else is trying to explain. You are the epitome of exactly what all of us feared would happen to this market. Enjoy your stay, I am sure it will be short and drama-filled.

No, I stated my personal opinion which you decided to get mad about and attack me for.

It's up to the individual to decide if a car is worth buying or not, ESPECIALLY a car like the Viper which is purely a toy. You may like the older vipers and feel that they meet your value proposition at the prices they sold for. I do not. It's not a knock against the people who bought the older vipers or prefer them to the new one - it's MY OPINION and it will not change because if I'm going to shell out $100K or more for a pleasure vehicle it's gotta be close to what I consider perfect.

IN MY OPINION the Gen 5 NAILED THIS which is why I got one. You are free to disagree with it, but since you jumped into this thread you seemed to be on a mission to make an ass out of yourself.

I fall into the boat wondering if he even owns one and is a fantastic troll.

Says the guy who obviously doesn't own any viper...

He's imploding. Sit back, watch and enjoy.

More like exploding - just got back from a fun independence day celebration full of pyrotechnic wonder.

But, I have no problem calling it how I see it, and I refuse to kiss butt to make a sale. I choose to be straight with people, regardless of the consequences. It costs me some sales, sure... but it also prevents a large majority of the hassles from customers I never wanted to have in the first place. I would say my *maybe* half dozen big-hassle customers over the past TEN YEARS seems to show that it works relatively well.

It displays a lack of professionalism. If you took the time to read the posts and parse them using logic you probably would not have falsely accused me of talking down to other viper owners. You would have noted that I simply opt not to spend my money on things if they do not meet my standards. If your attention to detail isn't up to par when it comes to reading a thread on the interwebz, then I can only wonder if you take similar shortcuts when working on other peoples' vipers.

Ah... so, again, you miss the POINT of everything I posted being that PeerBlock is uninformed, and all you see is that I was turning this into a "Dan vs. Gen-5" thing? Convenient.

You are right. This thread is a train-wreck. People selectively interpreting things tends to cause that.

LOL if you were selling irony this post would have been worth a few billion G-Dubz.

generation 5 is technically marginally better than generation 4 and you will get few arguments from generation IV owners on this point.

the generation 5 design is a step forward just not the step that we were anticipating but nevertheless it is a step forward and SRT is to be commended.

This is an understatement. The Gen 5 exceeds the performance of all prior vipers despite being "bulked up" with a great interior, sound padding and tech. It's more than a step; it's a leap when you evaluate the "total package".

 

[HobokenViper]

Holy cowabunga!!!!!! This thread started out good and is now completely outa control....... Long story short, quit the back and forth, it doesn't make anyone involved look good and only perpetuates the problem, and it's painful to read.

Back on topic..... Swore back in 1992 when I was about 13 years old that I'd get a Viper one day after seeing it in person for the first time in the dealer when my parents went to buy a Dodge Caravan. Fast forward 20 years, and I finally ended up getting a Gen IV in my personal favorite color combo, and one of the rarest ever made with only 9 Gen IV verts ever made like it, and I couldn't be happier!!!!! Now I've owned my fair share of other lesser sports cars, most or all with more amenities and features, and I also currently own other cars with a slew of "luxury" features for daily drives and family moving drives, but it's the raw brute quality that I love most about the Viper, and that feature is packaged in every Gen Viper. I may never sell my 2008 Viper, but I also appreciate the Gen V and earlier Gen I and II for what they are, and I'll probably end up picking up a low mileage Gen II GTS coupe and a Gen V GTS at some point down the road. Great cars, and each is individually great for their own reasons.

With that said, I love reading all about the new Gen V and I truly think it is a big step in a good direction. I love the features that it now has, and I think it's truly a beautiful piece of artwork when you see it in person. Saw it at the New York Auto show and fell in love! That doesn't detract from my love of my Gen IV, and will never make me want to trade it in to get the Gen V, but i truly am looking forward to adding a Gen V to the stable one day when my wife lets me....... LOL!

I really hope the Gen V sells well despite the initial production problems because if this Generation sells well, we'll have Gen VI, VII, etc to hopefully look forward to.

 

[Hemotoxic]

Holy cowabunga!!!!!! This thread started out good and is now completely outa control....... Long story short, quit the back and forth, it doesn't make anyone involved look good and only perpetuates the problem, and it's painful to read.

Your ignore list is the quickest way to improve signal-to-noise ratio. When people stir the ***, the *** does not have to respond.

Back on topic..... Swore back in 1992 when I was about 13 years old that I'd get a Viper one day after seeing it in person for the first time in the dealer when my parents went to buy a Dodge Caravan. Fast forward 20 years, and I finally ended up getting a Gen IV in my personal favorite color combo, and one of the rarest ever made with only 9 Gen IV verts ever made like it, and I couldn't be happier!!!!! Now I've owned my fair share of other lesser sports cars, most or all with more amenities and features, and I also currently own other cars with a slew of "luxury" features for daily drives and family moving drives, but it's the raw brute quality that I love most about the Viper, and that feature is packaged in every Gen Viper. I may never sell my 2008 Viper, but I also appreciate the Gen V and earlier Gen I and II for what they are, and I'll probably end up picking up a low mileage Gen II GTS coupe and a Gen V GTS at some point down the road. Great cars, and each is individually great for their own reasons.

With that said, I love reading all about the new Gen V and I truly think it is a big step in a good direction. I love the features that it now has, and I think it's truly a beautiful piece of artwork when you see it in person. Saw it at the New York Auto show and fell in love! That doesn't detract from my love of my Gen IV, and will never make me want to trade it in to get the Gen V, but i truly am looking forward to adding a Gen V to the stable one day when my wife lets me....... LOL!

I really hope the Gen V sells well despite the initial production problems because if this Generation sells well, we'll have Gen VI, VII, etc to hopefully look forward to.

Got to sit in a couple of Gen IVs and would have been extremely happy with it if I could have afforded it. Got to sit in a Gen V GTS and was blown away. The seats, interior, power, performance, and looks beat my C6 coupe like a drum. Too bad the price is more than triple and the fuel bill would be double at least. Back to doing *** ****, it looks like ...

 

[ohlarikd]

The fact that you would not own nor even consider an earlier Viper proves unequivocally that you certainly do not get what it means to own a "Viper".

Oh, I'd consider an older viper at about 1/2 the price they were trying to sell them for. They were not $100K cars by any stretch of the imagination, which is why only an imaginative few bought them. Talking about a Gen 5 when you obviously don't own one and probably haven't even seen on in person just makes you look like a fool.

Still reading through this mess, but if I was drinking coffee, I would have spit it all over the monitor at this point!

 

[johniew398]

Rereading the original post I'm still wondering what the ethnic slur was?

Seems as though everyone forgot about and that probably would tell us more than all the five pages of posts do.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Rereading the original post I'm still wondering what the ethnic slur was?

Seems as though everyone forgot about and that probably would tell us more than all the five pages of posts do.

It was something or another about the Italians.

 

[HobokenViper]

Still reading through this mess, but if I was drinking coffee, I would have spit it all over the monitor at this point!

Yep, I pretty much agree with your statement.....

 

[madninjaskillz]

What we have here, is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. What does yelling at a brick wall get you?
That is all. PB (&J) needs to post on the other forum...

 

[Camfab]

PeerBlock, I've got a suggestion for you, and I think DoctorBob pretty much nailed it............... You should just stop for a moment, take a breath and actually go to a VCA club event. Your points on the new car are understood by many and valid, however the Vipers appeal and client list is pretty incredible. Go to an event meet some fellow car enthusiats and it just might start making sense to you. You won't find a tighter group of people than you'll find in the VCA, nor will get the factory representation that SRT gives us form any other car club in the world.

 

[doctorbob]

Thanks Camfab. I am sure you are talking about my first post on this thread. There is nothing further to be gained or learned on this thread.

 

[spartan]

We can tell this is your first Viper. Enjoy your stay.

well played sir, well played

 

[Catwood]

I actually got to go out and drive a gen 5 today. I had one major complaint. It's not a Gen 2. Other than that, it was ok. Kind of smooth, kind of quiet....kind of tame....

 

[eucharistos]

yea me, i read every post, educational thread

 

[BlackSnake99]

I actually got to go out and drive a gen 5 today. I had one major complaint. It's not a Gen 2. Other than that, it was ok. Kind of smooth, kind of quiet....kind of tame....

Quoted because I like it.


+ rep.

 

[kratedisease]

PeerBlock.... Can I be your friend ? Everyone on this forum really likes you. I like you too. Can I be your friend ? You are very popular.

 

[DMan]

Quick, someone make a VCA comment so this thread gets locked, geesh, what a mess, I feel like I'm back on the BMW forum.

Ralph told me that well over 50% of the budget on the Gen5 was spent on the traction & stability system, and a good part of the rest was included in other federal compliance. This is why it's not a earth-shattering new design. He said they went with a more classic re-skinning to pay homage to the GenII that's so timeless. I've had to correct many people who look at it from a distance and refer to it as an older Viper, because it has those beautiful original lines. This, IMO, is a good thing, but I know some disagree.

That's not a lot of $ left for other things, they had to make the Gen5 legal for sale in our new world of 2013 and that took most of the budget. Chassis is mostly the same, the stiffing is from the engine cross-brace, not rocket science. The interior was an easy thing to get huge improvement on, so hitting that hard was a no-brainer, but the base isn't even leather like the olde gens, it's balistic fabric. I give SRT a big break though on the Gen5 in terms of perf etc., because of what they had to work with, when you have to focus on complying with new laws just to be able to sell, it's hard to get far in other areas, especially on a car that was on the chopping block by your own company. In 2015, when they say another model iteration is coming, I think we'll see some socks blown off. Until, um, it's a pretty freakin awesome car, like the one before it, and the one bfore that, etc.

 

[ViperTony]

I actually got to go out and drive a gen 5 today. I had one major complaint. It's not a Gen 2. Other than that, it was ok. Kind of smooth, kind of quiet....kind of tame....

Referenced.

 

[SRTviper]

Quick, someone make a VCA comment so this thread gets locked, geesh, what a mess, I feel like I'm back on the BMW forum.

Ralph told me that well over 50% of the budget on the Gen5 was spent on the traction & stability system, and a good part of the rest was included in other federal compliance. This is why it's not a earth-shattering new design. He said they went with a more classic re-skinning to pay homage to the GenII that's so timeless. I've had to correct many people who look at it from a distance and refer to it as an older Viper, because it has those beautiful original lines. This, IMO, is a good thing, but I know some disagree.

That's not a lot of $ left for other things, they had to make the Gen5 legal for sale in our new world of 2013 and that took most of the budget. Chassis is mostly the same, the stiffing is from the engine cross-brace, not rocket science. The interior was an easy thing to get huge improvement on, so hitting that hard was a no-brainer, but the base isn't even leather like the olde gens, it's balistic fabric. I give SRT a big break though on the Gen5 in terms of perf etc., because of what they had to work with, when you have to focus on complying with new laws just to be able to sell, it's hard to get far in other areas, especially on a car that was on the chopping block by your own company. In 2015, when they say another model iteration is coming, I think we'll see some socks blown off. Until, um, it's a pretty freakin awesome car, like the one before it, and the one bfore that, etc.

I think the performance is fine and people get a little bend out of shape just because it lost to a 300k track purpose designed car. I think what they should focus on going further is the exhaust drone/heat problems and making the car more compliant with better shocks/springs (preferable a type of mag ride system) and that is really about it. Maybe even a tad more sound deadening in the GTS models. If they really wanted to spend money the entire frame of the car should be changed to complete aluminum. But other than that I think it is good as is. Maybe work on better gas mileage? It is very clear from Randy's experience that the viper is too stiff and that it is bouncing off the ground. Softer shocks and springs is what this car needs badly.

Oh it also needs DCT as an option even if it is a 10k option like on the r8 and it absolutely needs to fix the hood latch issue. The hood should never be able to open unless the car is unlocked or it senses the key within 5 feet of the car.

Even bugatti for their new supersports and vitesse have softed up the car and they found it gave the car more performance because they aren't bouncing the tires anymore. You need compliance for these luxury models. Let the TA/ACR/SRT be the super stiff track ones and the GTS be the compliant ones. That is why mclaren and ferrari are the best road cars. And even the r8 can be thrown into there.

 

[Policy Limits]

Really not concerned with gas mileage when purchasing an exotic supercar. The average Viper owner puts 2,000 miles on the motor annually per the most recent Viper Magazine.

Maybe it's due to all the great sounding loud Euro cars I've owned, but I just don't see why people say its too loud. If anything it is certainly not loud enough. I'm not abig mod guy but I'm interested to see what Corsa or Mopar offer to make this thing sound louder.

I have no problem with the hood latch either. It's not a vehicle that is to be left unattended anyway.

This car may be more refined than a Gen I from decades ago, but that's not a bad thing. I like the traction & stability controls. I feel there is more engineering on the V I stead of just putting parts together. Not disrespecting prior gens or their owners. In fact I love how the V built on the first 4 gens. I do believe its the best snake to date and that's not a bad thing is all.