crazyspeed
Enthusiast
Anyone know of used 5-point belts for sale...for a Gen II GTS ? TIA
5-point seat belts for sale?
- Thread starter crazyspeed
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ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
Belts have expiration dates on them that some groups check. If you buy used belts look at the expiration date first. In some cases you can have the belts re-cetified by the manufacturer. I am waiting for a new set of 5 points for my 06. I was going to see if the old ones can be re-certified. If they can I may sell them. I think they will fit a Gen II but I'm not positive. The cam lock does have the "Fangs" logo though instead of "Sneaky Pete".
Funny, when I was looking for 5 points about a month ago I got vendors telling me that 5 points are outdated and that 6 points are where it's at. They went on to say that 5 points are no longer being accepted at most track day events and some racing bodies won't consider them at all. However, I've been to two track days since and plenty of folks had their 5 points, even re-certified 5 points, accepted by the track/body. Not sure how much of the push for 6 points is a sales tactic and/or if 5 points are truly no longer safe out there. 
So, I guess my question is why look for 5 points if 6 points are better?
So, I guess my question is why look for 5 points if 6 points are better?
Fast Viper Dan
Enthusiast
So, I guess my question is why look for 5 points if 6 points are better?[/quote]I think your 99 GTS has only one threaded insert in the floor for a five point.
I am sure you can add two new one's, if you wish.
I don't see any advantage to six point. JMHO
don't see any advantage to six point. JMHO
There must be an advantage and I'm sure folks will chime in on that soon. But, as for the OP's question on where to buy them...check with our site vendors. Some do sell safety harnesses and I have to imagine that some of them take in older 5 points are trades towards 6 points. In fact, ViperPartsLarry may have some from salvaged Vipers. Try Roe, PartsRack, ViperSpecialty to name JUST a few of our sponsors. If you do come across used belts...I'm pretty certain places like TeamTech or Sabelt will recertify their belts for a nominal fee.
sdaddy
Enthusiast
Fast Viper Dan
Enthusiast
If you want the most out of your belts, 5 or 6 point, you would need to change the seat to a race seat that has a hole cut for the sub belt to come thru the seat close to your crotch.
I do have a set of older style Team Tech five point belts I use in my 99 GTS for track days. First, I must admit, I don't like them. The wide padded shoulder belts bite into my neck and do not allow for a Hans device.
I am almost sitting on top of the slot where the sub belt comes thru in my race car.
The belts in my Panoz are folded and stitched to 2" at the shoulders for a Hanns device.
I doubt you want to change your seat. My point is that if there is argument that six point is better than five point. I believe you are not going to get the most out of ether one with the stock Viper seat.
If you find you are hooked on tracking your Viper, spare no expense on safety.
This post is by far, a better post than, “how can I make more H.P”.
I seldom hold the go peddle to the floor on track. Yet, at Button Willow this year I posted the fastest lap for a stock Gen II on my warm up lap. LOL. It dose not show on the NARA Webb site?
I guess because I was an Instructor?
I did get a Trophy!
I do have a set of older style Team Tech five point belts I use in my 99 GTS for track days. First, I must admit, I don't like them. The wide padded shoulder belts bite into my neck and do not allow for a Hans device.
I am almost sitting on top of the slot where the sub belt comes thru in my race car.
The belts in my Panoz are folded and stitched to 2" at the shoulders for a Hanns device.
I doubt you want to change your seat. My point is that if there is argument that six point is better than five point. I believe you are not going to get the most out of ether one with the stock Viper seat.
If you find you are hooked on tracking your Viper, spare no expense on safety.
This post is by far, a better post than, “how can I make more H.P”.
I seldom hold the go peddle to the floor on track. Yet, at Button Willow this year I posted the fastest lap for a stock Gen II on my warm up lap. LOL. It dose not show on the NARA Webb site?
I guess because I was an Instructor?I did get a Trophy!
dave6666
Enthusiast
You can fabricate a mount using the forward seat mounting screws and have the belt eyes (or whatever system you're using) located wherever you want. I would even incorporate this mount into that single existing 5 point threaded insert for additional strength.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Spare no expense on safety within reason.
I find it difficult to believe there is any significant safety advantage of six points over five. What's next, seven points? Eight points? Maybe a giant cocoon that only allows us to move our pinky fingers for paddle shifts?
I also find it difficult to believe belts have deteriorated so badly after two years that they need replacing.
Do we ever reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to safety? If the answer is "no" then prepare for a safe video game future, but I prefer the track.
dave6666
Enthusiast
I like that system they had in the Stallone movie where when you crash the entire car fills up instantly with expanding foam. That's safe...
I like that system they had in the Stallone movie where when you crash the entire car fills up instantly with expanding foam. That's safe...
Ah yes...the Cannoli filling. You get to eat your way out of it after the crash.
If you ever wear a 6-point belt, after being used to a 5, you will IMMEDIATELY understand why they are preferred or required by "real" race-sanctioning bodies like SCCA. [They only cost ~$20 more, so it aint a sales pitch.] They flat-out hold you down and back in the seat much better, and help anchor your thighs and legs from flailing around in a rollover.
And a 6pt is easier to install vs a 5pt, since you DONT add any hardware or holes! You use one LESS anchor hole/boss than a 5pt uses....
I remember when Henri and Janni Cone converted their 5-pt Team Techs to 6pt and were amazed and delighted.... [and posted their thoughts on this site.] Once my 5-pts went out of date, I also converted to 6pts. SNUGGER-CONFIDENT-SECURELY in the seat. Better.
Sales Pitch? Team Viper converted the SRT line to 6-pt anchors. Trust our safety engineers.
As a past SCCA and Viper Days tech inspector, I have seen some ILL-ADIVISED and UNSAFE "User-Fabricated" anchors. [Hint: If your shoulder belts are attached to the floor---you could be DEAD.] Some could even STRANGLE you if/when the seat tracks broke in a crash (they do), Some could just let go and hold NOTHING in a crash.
If you buy your seatbelts because of a snake logo!? ....we can swap logos easier than body parts.
To the guy wanting 'used 5 points'.... are they for a car show or to save your life? I have used-out-of-date car show fodder cheap, to free.....
PPS Late Edit: When 100% of OE 5-pt harnesses were recalled 1998-2000 GT2-ACRs, Dodge took almost 18 mos to get replacement belts in. In that time, ONE company was allowed to do Chrysler-warrantee-reimbursable harness exchanges for many many dozens of Owners here so they could pass track-tech. That company was........ PartsRack! Thanks.
And a 6pt is easier to install vs a 5pt, since you DONT add any hardware or holes! You use one LESS anchor hole/boss than a 5pt uses....
I remember when Henri and Janni Cone converted their 5-pt Team Techs to 6pt and were amazed and delighted.... [and posted their thoughts on this site.] Once my 5-pts went out of date, I also converted to 6pts. SNUGGER-CONFIDENT-SECURELY in the seat. Better.
Sales Pitch? Team Viper converted the SRT line to 6-pt anchors. Trust our safety engineers.
As a past SCCA and Viper Days tech inspector, I have seen some ILL-ADIVISED and UNSAFE "User-Fabricated" anchors. [Hint: If your shoulder belts are attached to the floor---you could be DEAD.] Some could even STRANGLE you if/when the seat tracks broke in a crash (they do), Some could just let go and hold NOTHING in a crash.
If you buy your seatbelts because of a snake logo!? ....we can swap logos easier than body parts.
To the guy wanting 'used 5 points'.... are they for a car show or to save your life? I have used-out-of-date car show fodder cheap, to free.....
PPS Late Edit: When 100% of OE 5-pt harnesses were recalled 1998-2000 GT2-ACRs, Dodge took almost 18 mos to get replacement belts in. In that time, ONE company was allowed to do Chrysler-warrantee-reimbursable harness exchanges for many many dozens of Owners here so they could pass track-tech. That company was........ PartsRack! Thanks.
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eucharistos
Enthusiast
great info Jon
AZTVR
Enthusiast
At what level of track event does one become foolish for not using a 5-point or 6-point harness? Many folks sitting on the sidelines of this conversation are just occasional HPDE drivers, not "racers"; but, starting to get faster and are getting bolder. Not yet driving impressive laps; but, thinking about stickier tires and better brakes. Does wearing a 6-point (or 5-point) harness mean that one ought to be wearing a Hans device or similar because the torso is held so firmly into place? (These questions have passed through my head as I have thought about the risks.) It isn't so obvious to some of us novices when one has to step up the safety level and to what level, if one is not racing.
EXCELLENT Question and thought process.....
The inertia-reel OE belts, together with air bag systems, are designed to minimize (not prevent) injuries at highway speeds. So once you are doing 100-150 on track, the potential energy which your body must absorb is huge. The energy of a 50 mph crash is 4 times that of a 25 mph crash; The energy of 100 mph vs 25 mph is 16x as much.
Once you equip your car to STICK better with slicks and suspension work, it can pull more than 1-G. At this level, your ability to ROLL the car increases greatly. And NARRA begins to require Tops, Bars, and recommends HANS.
The inertia in a rollover "FLAILS" your unrestrained head and neck, arms and legs. With an open-face helmet, your knee can break your chin.....and your chin / helmet can break your kneecap. Your arms can flail out the window and be rolled-on.
The more energy that can be absorbed by padded harnesses, and {cheap} arm restraints the better for your soft tissue and bones. [Team Tech uses no-recoil foam, pioneered by NASA Space Agency. You DONT want just foam-rubber slip-on pads that RETURNS-recoils the energy. ]
Bobby Archer once told me of a nasty Viper incident in TX that destroyed his car, but surprised him that the Team Techs did not give him any "harness rash-bruising" as he had encountered with other brands of unpadded webbing. At VOI-5 (STL) a young man hit the wall as a passenger...car totalled. His plain 5-pts certainly minimized his injuries, but the next day he was sore and badly-bruised, and left with a "tattoo Like" impressions of the 3" bare nylon webbing on his body, wherever the harness touched. It looked like a sunburn-imprint of the harness. This is common with unpadded harnesses.
It is also why, as a long time race team and former Viper Days instructor, I have refused to instruct some students who short-cut safety and buys only himself a harness, to leave me with only an OEM 3-point. "All Occupants - Same level of protection" please! [Drag Racers dont take riders...1 harness OK.]
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
I would say when you have been tracking to the point that you are considering mods to make you faster it is time to install a harness. Not just for the safety aspect but to hold you in the seat during hard turns and braking.
But if you're just doing a couple events to learn the limits of your car then the factory belts are fine.
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
As Chuck says, a 5- or 6-point harness will keep you in the seat during turns. You should feel kind of stupid if you have to prop your left knee against the speaker grill or your right knee sort of against the tunnel and your elbow on the hard door and be leaning on the steering wheel.... while you try to finesse your wheel and throttle through a high speed turn. I put racing shell seats in my car mostly for autocross just so I wouldn't be getting bruises on my joints from sliding back and forth.
Jim has a great question - when to move up? I would answer that when your arms feel tired from supporting yourself against the wheel, or you wear elbow or knee pads in the car, then it's time. You shouldn't be moving around in the car, you should be moving with the car.
In an RT you should get the arm restraints. They look restrictive, but are actually easy to put on and easy off, since they latch into the main seatbelt buckle. I was at Pocono when Davey Allison waved out the roof, which was facing the grandstand, as it was torn off and spinning through tunnel turn. Good enough image.
The race belts are replaced periodically because they are made from a slightly stretchy material. This slight "give" is to cushion your fragile corpse as it gets thrown around. When they age, they stretch differently (forgot if they break or tear, or what.) The OEM belts are different material, have different requirements, and obviously aren't replaced.
Jim has a great question - when to move up? I would answer that when your arms feel tired from supporting yourself against the wheel, or you wear elbow or knee pads in the car, then it's time. You shouldn't be moving around in the car, you should be moving with the car.
In an RT you should get the arm restraints. They look restrictive, but are actually easy to put on and easy off, since they latch into the main seatbelt buckle. I was at Pocono when Davey Allison waved out the roof, which was facing the grandstand, as it was torn off and spinning through tunnel turn. Good enough image.
The race belts are replaced periodically because they are made from a slightly stretchy material. This slight "give" is to cushion your fragile corpse as it gets thrown around. When they age, they stretch differently (forgot if they break or tear, or what.) The OEM belts are different material, have different requirements, and obviously aren't replaced.
AZTVR
Enthusiast
Great inputs !! Thanks ! I use the ACR's stock 5-points because they definitely hold me in place. I realize that they are "old"; but I had figured that they were at least as good as the 3-point belts from an aging standpoint. I've done about 6 VD/NARRA events and enjoy it immensely. I really don't feel a need to go faster; just to get better and enjoy the thrill, which tends to translate into speed. I've usually been the slowest guy in the group until the last time. I want to do this more, and I want to be smart about it also. I will never be a racer-type though. I just want to take advantage of what this car can provide on the track instead of the road where things are much less controlled and much more patrolled!
-I remember chafed-scraped sore elbows in my short-sleeve '93 AutoCross days, even WITH 5-pts!
-As the race webbing ages, the repeated use-stretching gets 'used up' and wont stretch.
-6 pts stabilize your legs/thighs. 5-points dont.
-Team-Tech 5s can be converted to 6, inexpensively.
----You can install em for car-control, but you'll thank God for them if the unthinkable happens----
-As the race webbing ages, the repeated use-stretching gets 'used up' and wont stretch.
-6 pts stabilize your legs/thighs. 5-points dont.
-Team-Tech 5s can be converted to 6, inexpensively.
----You can install em for car-control, but you'll thank God for them if the unthinkable happens----
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
And I have added padding next to the door pull, removed the transmission tunnel cover and put padding on the tunnel, placed a padded foam over the speaker grill, and hung a piece of padded foam from the edge of the dash. L and R elbow and knee all cushioned.
And an aluminum shell race seat. Sleep like a baby!
crazyspeed
Enthusiast
If you want the most out of your belts, 5 or 6 point, you would need to change the seat to a race seat that has a hole cut for the sub belt to come thru the seat close to your crotch.
I believe the 6 point belts are maybe attached to the side seatbelt anchors??? NOT the crotch location? Is this correct? ...And then one sits on the belts and then they come up between the legs and ??
I have been trying to do some reading up on this. I have yet to see a photo of a person wearing the 6 point belts in a car. Kinda strange a search on the internet does not produce a photo..or even instuctions for proper WEARING of the belts...( not just installation)
I was looking for installation instructions on the TeamTech website to see what the proper installation/location is for 6 points. Not much information there. We do have a how to in the Illustrated's Section on installing a 5/6 point harness in a GenII which is useful. However, for the 6 points I believe no hole is required in the seat as you sit on the submarine belts and bring up through the crotch area. Maybe JonB can post some info/pics on this.
yeh, they attach to the same location as the lap belts, then you sit on them and wrap them around your legs and they hook into the camlock (antisub belts). my last set also had the sternum belt (goes across your chest), that makes -2 pts, then you have the shoulder and lap belts-4 pts.
crazyspeed
Enthusiast
Thanks Leslie, I was hoping that you would post on this thread.
It is also a puzzle for me that there is a factory supplied location for a 5-point on the floor...but I understand that is is unwise to use stock seats with this and then attach the sub belt to the floor ( unless a hole is cut into the center of the seat in front of the crotch area???)
It is also a puzzle for me that there is a factory supplied location for a 5-point on the floor...but I understand that is is unwise to use stock seats with this and then attach the sub belt to the floor ( unless a hole is cut into the center of the seat in front of the crotch area???)
this is a pic of the Snake Oyl belts, mine will be different in that the center antisub belt will have 2 ends, each will clip onto where the lapbelts do, then a third clip will be around the legs and snap into the camlock.(you sit on the belt). A friend of mine modified his stock seat and DID cut a hole in the center for the antisub to come through, I'll try to find the pic.
I'll post pics when I get mine installed this week.
crazyspeed
Enthusiast
Thanks again Leslie, espec for the photo. I got a call from TeamTech today. I may be mistaken, but...I understand that it's approx $155 each for recert. plus shipping...plus additional $20 each for update to 6-point. I believe new ones cost approx $230 each plus shippng. Prices are dependant on if it includes padding
the team tech's are 6 pt and don't use a mount to the floor for the antisub belt, they are part of the lapbelts.
saw that price quote you got to redo your belts, dang you just buy new ones for that!
