732 RWHP / 670 RWTQ Thanks to DC Performance and Woodhouse

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Finally !! After trying to get the timing right for DC performance and getting random warranty work done. I FINALLY have the car perfect!!.. (ok not me, but Dan and Mark J.)

Mark helped out with some parts that had been warn out and didnt bat an eye at helping (Thanks to YOU the most Mark Jorgenson!!)

Then Dan Craig and Team installed the parts and got the car tuned to perfection.

Keep in mind I actually have 6 total mufflers in the car (3 on each side), 2 vortex cones and she is still QUITER then my Dad's Randomw Tech/ Corsa Cat Back stock SRT10.

So I have the performance sound (not obnoxious) and PLENTY of power.

If you check old posts, you'll see folks were guessing I'd be under 680 mark, and I was betting I'd still break 700. Boy did I ever !! 732 rwhp !! after Dan and Crew tuned her up perfectly. 11.5 AFR across the board !! Perfect for driving hard and not worrying!! (and this was on 91 octane)


THANKS DAN/CHRIS AND MARK J. FOR MAKING THE VIPER EXCITING AGAIN !!

Jon

 

[Doubleup]

Thats a great number, what all components were installed installed?

 

[ulllose]

it must have a flux capacitor...........

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Stock Paxton (aka stock pulley), DC Performance Tune, BTK (or something Throttle body), Corsa Cat Back, stock shorty headers with gutted random tech cats, Vortex Cones and AERO mufflers.

I also have the DLM Tentioner and cooler (pieces of ****, that added nothing, other then headaches and a lighter wallet).

Thats its for 'power adders' that I can remember. I'd have to search old posts to see if I forgot something. I just drive the car now, I dont really mod it anymore, its great.. so why mess. Dan did what was needed to get the tune perfect and thats the only reason I did that... the extra power was just a perk. I wanted to make sure I was safe with the tune and could drive it hard without worry of going lean

Jon

 

[KenricGTS]

Why would you say the DLM parts are pieces ****? I have them on my car and have had no issues whatsoever. Just curious as to why?

 

[SquadX]

those are some impressive numbers. and your using the stock heads? VEC 3 or AEM or SCT flash. What is all done to the car besides the paxton?

 

[99 R/T 10]

Did you upgrade the pistons Jon? Great numbers bro

 

[Martin]

What are you doing for smog? Or, was everyhing CARB certified? I've found one place here in Silicon Valley that is pretty good about smogging my GTS without too many questions, but I have gotten unlucky a few times and left feeling frustrated, to say the least...

 

[oufan2929]

I assume you're not on stock pistons and rods?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The motor is all stock bottom end, 732 X 1.1 = 810 ish? We have gotten that out of one other Viper and a stock Paxton system. The car base lined high and even better after the blower, but this was with 100 octane fuel. So it can be done but yea I wonder how the bottom end will last at that level? The Paxton is easy on motors though so it should be fine. The one we did locally is still going strong and that was in 04' on a Mamba, definitely out of what is normal for us though.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Why would you say the DLM parts are pieces ****? I have them on my car and have had no issues whatsoever. Just curious as to why?

Because BOTH parts failed me. First time the DLM intercooler rubbed against my AC condensor (due to DLMS completely ****ty mounting system) and blew it, and then the belt tensioner stopped putting the needed tension on the belt (it also doesnt allow for flexibility like the stock setup does). Nope I'm no fan of either part. If I could go back in time, I'd never have bought them.

Jon

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

those are some impressive numbers. and your using the stock heads? VEC 3 or AEM or SCT flash. What is all done to the car besides the paxton?

Stock heads, stock pistons, DC Performance direct tune, started out with an SCT Tune, but that doesnt compare to the magic Chris at DC performance can do when he spins the car on the dyno and directly tunes your pcm.

Jon

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

The motor is all stock bottom end, 732 X 1.1 = 810 ish? We have gotten that out of one other Viper and a stock Paxton system. The car base lined high and even better after the blower, but this was with 100 octane fuel. So it can be done but yea I wonder how the bottom end will last at that level? The Paxton is easy on motors though so it should be fine. The one we did locally is still going strong and that was in 04' on a Mamba, definitely out of what is normal for us though.

Mark.. good to see you and I are on the same page with the reverse engineering of the numbers to get motor power. I have always believed the 10% drive train loss, so while it would be nice to 'dyno queen' it with .15 or .20 , I also believe that roughly at the crank I have 800. But yes, I completely agree 732x 1.10 = my engine power.

Also, this IS a Woodhouse Car, so if people ask, you guys have a confirmed 730 rwhp car that can from Woodhouse's wrenching goodness.

Mine was off of 91 octane, no 100 stuff.. So I guess I should be impressed myself with that.

But I too believe the bottom end should be fine. I think we are seeing levels of 'effeciency' here, not extreme burden on the motor. I've put no extra load on the engine vs stock paxton. I think I just helped the power to come out cleaner. By basically removing resistance in the system.

We'll see how long she lasts, but I have a really good feeling about this.

And again, none of this would have been possible if 1ST, I didnt have the support and backing from Woodhouse and Mark Jorgenson, who have made those little 'hickups' of owning a higher powered Viper, a non issue.

THANKS MJ and Woodhouse !!

And certainly Dan Craig and Team did an excellent job at delivering the tune, power and reliability (11.5 to 1 AFR, across the chart) !!

Jon

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

What are you doing for smog? Or, was everyhing CARB certified? I've found one place here in Silicon Valley that is pretty good about smogging my GTS without too many questions, but I have gotten unlucky a few times and left feeling frustrated, to say the least...

What are you talking about? I am a resident of Chicago, IL . So says my Tag and Vehicle Registration. Suprisingly... Chicago doesnt do emmisions testing ;-)

So.. while my baby frequents the streets of Silicon Valley, her home is Chicago and therefore is not bound by this states restrictive emissions policy.

Jon

 

[vipzilla]

what are you using for a managment system split second aem or vec????

 

[PhoenixGTS]

what are you using for a managment system split second aem or vec????

I think "DC tune by Chris" means he is using a stock PCM with new software.

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

Because BOTH parts failed me. First time the DLM intercooler rubbed against my AC condensor (due to DLMS completely ****ty mounting system) and blew it, and then the belt tensioner stopped putting the needed tension on the belt (it also doesnt allow for flexibility like the stock setup does). Nope I'm no fan of either part. If I could go back in time, I'd never have bought them.

Jon

Jon,

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate circumstances. When mounted securely (as per our instructions) the cooler will not rub against the condensor. I intensionally and lightly secure the cooler to flex with the front end of the vehicle. It's Very thin and dissipates the heat rapidly.

Also, the tensioner works perfectly if installed & adjusted properly, they don't just stop putting tension on the belt. We've had cars pickup a lot of power and use them to eliminate belt slip. Belt slip is the nature of power loss on boosted SC cars.

When you change pulleys or increase power you must reduce the heat. Especially on cast piston cars. Higher boost, and/or more aggressive timing create heat. Without the proper heat reduction the cast pistons don't survive. The heat in the cylinders don't allow room for expansion with cast pistons as well as the ring ends butt and lift the ring lands off of the pistons.

Try logging your boost graphs with and without our tensioner assembly and you can record the difference.

If you need or would like us to replace the tensioner free of charge I would be delighted to send one your way. Either way, congrats on your power and keep it safe!

Regards,
Doug Levin

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

what are you using for a managment system split second aem or vec????

Using a stock PCM, that DC Performance's tuner Chris (guys name) tuned on a dyno and made changes to the pcm. It DOES have a split second box though, which is part of the stock paxton install.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Jon,

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate circumstances. When mounted securely (as per our instructions) the cooler will not rub against the condensor. I intensionally and lightly secure the cooler to flex with the front end of the vehicle. It's Very thin and dissipates the heat rapidly.

Also, the tensioner works perfectly if installed & adjusted properly, they don't just stop putting tension on the belt. We've had cars pickup a lot of power and use them to eliminate belt slip. Belt slip is the nature of power loss on boosted SC cars.

When you change pulleys or increase power you must reduce the heat. Especially on cast piston cars. Higher boost, and/or more aggressive timing create heat. Without the proper heat reduction the cast pistons don't survive. The heat in the cylinders don't allow room for expansion with cast pistons as well as the ring ends butt and lift the ring lands off of the pistons.

Try logging your boost graphs with and without our tensioner assembly and you can record the difference.

If you need or would like us to replace the tensioner free of charge I would be delighted to send one your way. Either way, congrats on your power and keep it safe!

Regards,
Doug Levin

We dissagree.

 

[my viper]

Congrats on the power, Jon! Let us know if you visit Chicago [after April ]

 

[ILLSMOQ]

WOW! great numbers....makes me want to run down to DC and get a re-tune

 

[ILLSMOQ]

You made 732 with out the DLM parts?

I would rather not have to use the DLM tensioner, I would prefer the paxton spring loaded tensioner to adequately do its job....but with my car the belt slipped...so I lost power. The DLM tensioner fixed that problem for me. My power curve is straight an linear....no slipping.

The larger DLM cooler also provided a noticable difference with the power....the little paxton cooler doesn't keep the charge air coolant very cool after back to back runs on a hot day. When I put the dlm cooler I no longer noticed the power drop during back to back runs .

The DLM parts worked for me.

I think the next step for my car is to beef up the motor to acept more boost/aggressive tune and maybe step up to the DLM wide pulley set up.

Doug, if you are still reading, do you have any pictures of the upgraded pully set up?

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Kiss Doug's *** in your own thread Kurtis.

In the mean time, get down to DC and get your car tuned, or just FINALLY meet me at a drag strip so I can beat on your little over pressurized pop can.

Jon

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Keep on waiting for me to meet you at the strip...you'll be waiting a while. You know where I like to play and you should be able to pull on me a bit....that is to say as long as your belt doesn't slip

The DLM parts did what they were supposed to do on my car....of course they were installed as Doug instructed and my cooler does not rub against any other components either..!..

BTW, this "pop can" has about 5k miles on it running the smaller pulley....how many miles are on your odometer today? Lets see how far it goes.....when she stops nobody knows

 

[MikeR]

The DLM stuff WORKS. Doug is a great guy and spent many hours on the phone with alot of us. He also stands behind his parts. Thats why you still have it on your car Jon. Dont knock one of the great tuners and supporters of this board. Kurtis and I did many tests and Boost readings. There was alot of slip with stock Paxton tensioner. Boost readings between 4-6 lbs and jumping around alot under boost at higher rpms. Then we put on DLM tensioner and boost would hit a consistent 8 lbs at 6k rpms and thru the rpm range it steadliy climbs as it should.
The DLM cooler provides better cooling. If mounted correctly you WONT have a problem with his cooler. Mine had 20k miles of trouble free DLM parts. As everyone else on the board will say, DLM stuff rocks.

And those are awesome numbers. But when we were quoting your 680 rwhp figure that was before a tune. You dyno'd 694 with gutted cats (increases power) but then you added mufflers and cones. Your power would have probably dopped 10-15hp puttng you about 680 rwhp. But you went to DC and added a BBk Throttle body, known to add power to supercharged cars, and also had a Dyno tune which greatly helps. Therefore you got to 732 rwhp. Again good numbers, but DLM has been pulling 750 rwhp cars with less mods I beleive. Maybe you should have left all those mufflers off. I bet you would get another 20 hp with just a Corsa and your straight pipes. But being qiuet is nice, so Id sacrafice some power as your doing, for a quiter ride. Remeber, you didnt beleive in any of this stuff a year ago when you lived in Chicago. Posts of how you would walk us California boys. Well you omoved here and I think I put about 4-5 cars on you. Finally you saw the light and a year later got your car running right. Should have listened sooner.

Your posts are misleading to new members. You might stear them in the wrong path to modding. Everyone knows DLM stuff is a must, DC performance tuning is great,Parts Rack has some of the best prices and just about anything you need and Woodhouse is one of the best mod friendly dealers. Dont ruin the rep of any of those that help so much.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Mike your rant, as usual, is pointless. I was making JUST as much power as you boys, while I was in Chicago and then I found I had an issue of MELTED cats. So nice try, but you never put 4-5 cars on me, hell you never even broke my record and did 10s in your Viper. Stop your rant, its pointless, you dropped out of the game when you started having motor problems and your car dyno'ed down significant power, and you got scared of the costs associated with fixing it.

4-5 cars.. hahah.. uh ok... and your 10 second time slip please? I'd welcome both you and kurtis to the drag strip for an official round of racing, but you own no Viper, and Kurtis wont show up. So I guess we bench race/dyno race, and I won that too. Thanks for playing, you lost.

I had different experiences with DLM stuff then you did. You're making an assertion that Woodhouse didnt install the parts correctly, which is completely wrong on your part. Again you're wrong.

The stuff *****, and thats my opinion, and I stand by it, and myself and Woodhouse have the bills to prove it.

That was not the point in this thread. Sorry you dont have a Viper anymore, but the power race didnt end just because you bailed out.

Jon

 

[ViperTony]

Awesome numbers. Any chance you can post a dyno sheet? I'm certain many here would love to see that HP/TQ curve.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Awesome numbers. Any chance you can post a dyno sheet? I'm certain many here would love to see that HP/TQ curve.

Dan says its in the passenger seat of the car, now I just have to get the car back to me

I'll ask Dan for the dyno files to, so maybe I could get them posted sooner if I can get those.

I'm looking forward to looking at the curve myself, not just the peak numbers.

Jon

 

[plumcrazy]

yeah, id love to see the chart. please post it up if you dont mind

and its great to see you guys (mike,smoq and jon) beating each other up....

 

[99 R/T 10]

I agree Phil. It's like the girls have come back to the play ground again.............................

They seem to fight like the boys off Polk street in SF trying to see who gets whos *** first in the steam bath...........................