900 hp Paxton or TT?

[black mamba1]

I see many Vipers in the forum w/ 800 hp to 900+ hp Paxton setups and some w/ TT setups in the same power range. I am definitely going to put one or the other on my 04 in the next month or so...but why would someone spend the extra money for a TT 900 hp Viper when a Paxton set up can do the same for cheaper? And in addition, can you really tell/use the the difference in power once you are in the 900-1000 hp range? HELP!!

 

[black mamba1]

What I am basically asking is that should I go w/ TT or SC setup to get around 850 to 900 hp? And can you really USE the difference in a track setting or any other setting between an 850 hp and a 1000 hp car? HELP!!

 

[Disturbed]

TT all the way.

 

[plumcrazy]

kinda depends on your needs i guess. what type of driving do you do and is there much track time?

 

[black mamba1]

I plan to do 1/4 track and some road racing. What is the performance difference between a 900 SC car and a 900 TT car?

 

[mike & juli]

What I am basically asking is that should I go w/ TT or SC setup to get around 850 to 900 hp? And can you really USE the difference in a track setting or any other setting between an 850 hp and a 1000 hp car? HELP!!

Dan, right? You should ask Chuck Tator his opinion on the Paxton or TT...our understanding is with the '05 (you would be same, '04), there is MUCH work to be done to accommodate a Paxton s/c....for what it's worth, I'd ask Chuck's opinion, as I also presume you track the car?...won't say anymore right now....~juli~
BTW: You gonna be at Lime Rock Saturday tracking your Mamba??? We're coming with the BEAST, but not tracking it.

 

[black mamba1]

Yeah, I talk to Chuck often on these issues...I have not done either yet b/c I know his position on both. But w/ the Roe s/c taking forever and the competition really heating up in the sports car world the Paxtons and the TT option are becoming more attractive each day. Oh, and by the way..its actually Keith, not Dan!

 

[mike & juli]

Yeah, I talk to Chuck often on these issues...I have not done either yet b/c I know his position on both. But w/ the Roe s/c taking forever and the competition really heating up in the sports car world the Paxtons and the TT option are becoming more attractive each day. Oh, and by the way..its actually Keith, not Dan!

Sorry, Keith!!! There IS a Dan with an '04 Mamba that we know, but don't know what his name is on the site...I profusely apologize!!! Yeah, didn't want to say what Chuck's position was on the Paxton---but you obviously know as well....and yeah, Roe' s/c is taking more than forever to develop--he's got to develop for the '03-'07 years, that's a heckuva lot of s/c's!!!! Waiting IS tough, we are in the same boat...good luck to ya!
~juli~

 

[TwinTurbo]

You want to know an EXPERTS opinion call Jason Heffner / HEFFNER PERFORMANCE. He installs and dyno's both!

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-vendors-tuners/4242-heffner-performance.html

 

[Joseph Dell]

It takes about 150hp to spin the paxton. so 900hp on the paxton is closer to 1050 on a TT. so you can use a TT to make the same power on less boost (b/c you don't have the cost of some power used to spin the blower).

Both are good choices.

If all you wanted was 700-800rwhp, that paxton kit is hard to compete with.

JD

 

[black mamba1]

It takes about 150hp to spin the paxton. so 900hp on the paxton is closer to 1050 on a TT. so you can use a TT to make the same power on less boost (b/c you don't have the cost of some power used to spin the blower).

Both are good choices.

If all you wanted was 700-800rwhp, that paxton kit is hard to compete with.

JD

Thanks Joe, that is the kind of info I can really use. I just cannot imagine there being a way to really USE the extra power of a TT if I have an 800 rwhp paxton. I mean, what exactly can a 1000 hp Viper really do that a 850 hp Viper cannot do? AND WHERE CAN IT DO IT?? Also are the practical advantages of a TT over a Paxton besides power?

 

[Paul Hawker]

Really comparing apples to oranges except for the HP figures.

Paxton builds power smoothly. Pretty cheap compared to Twin Turbos.

Twin Turbos have potential for even more HP, but at a price.

Seems like you can get away with just bolting on the Paxton, and having an experienced person dyno tune it, and you are good to go. (fast)

Turbos usually entail going deeper into the motor for good reliability.

I prefer the Paxton over the Turbo because of the sound. Just like the more raw supercharger pulse. The turbo's chop up the sound and the ones I have ridden have more of a woosh sound that I did not like as much.

Think you hit it right on the head in that for both systems the issue becomes more about traction than who makes the most HP.

If I was satisfied with the entry level package from Paxton, that would be my choice.

If I wanted to have the option to go over 1,000hp then the twin turbo would be the way to go.

 

[Snakester]

I can't speak from experience because I don't have either one of these systems. But one advantage that I've read about with twin turbos is that the top systems sometimes include AEM or other control electronics that can control the boost by gear and A/F ratio.

Having 1400HP sounds amazing, but the few 1000HP+ supercharged Vipers that I've seen at the track had traction problems in the first 3 gears even running drag radials.
And spinning the tires at 100MPH+ is just scary.

Whereas variable boost with twin turbos has the potential to limit HP to say 600HP in 1st, 750HP in second, and so on so that the Viper can actually put the power down effectively and not have the power (and safety) compromised by spinning the tires.
And I haven't heard about boost control for supercharged systems yet.

If I were upgrading, it would be to a supercharger though due to the big price difference, and smog compliance which could be tougher with a twin turbo setup.

 

[plumcrazy]

going with a paxton is the only thing i ever argued with chuck tator about. i agree with him 100% of the time except that. and especially if ya go to DLM for the install, its much better than the base kit.

the paxton is a better choice for me and my driving style. its very linear and easy to drive because of that. and i like the idea of the intercooler too. and on an SRT, ya really dont have a choice. i guess if ya wanna replace your hood and wait who knows how long for the roe, thats an option too. but i dont think its gonna be as good as the paxton kit.

 

[black mamba1]

Guys, you are all a tremendous help! Thanks! A few more questions:

1. The Paxton makes most of its power at the shift point, it seems as if this would create the perfect scenerio for a violent spin-out during a hard shift, is this a problem? I have read many a thread about 850 hp Vipers crashing, my suspicion has been loss of control during shifting.
2. I know I keep asking this question and it seems as if some of you have somewhat addressed it..again, can where on earth can the difference between a 850 hp Viper and an 1100 hp Viper ever show up? I know of NO sports cars (except the awd Bugatti and maybe one other) making over 1000 hp. I cannot think of a scenerio where 1000+ hp can be used anywhere. Is a 1000+ hp Viper gonna produce better track times or will the extra power simply go up in wheel smoke? Is 1000+ hp just for bragging rights?

 

[jpas]

Guys, you are all a tremendous help! Thanks! A few more questions:

1. The Paxton makes most of its power at the shift point, it seems as if this would create the perfect scenerio for a violent spin-out during a hard shift, is this a problem? I have read many a thread about 850 hp Vipers crashing, my suspicion has been loss of control during shifting.
2. I know I keep asking this question and it seems as if some of you have somewhat addressed it..again, can where on earth can the difference between a 850 hp Viper and an 1100 hp Viper ever show up? I know of NO sports cars (except the awd Bugatti and maybe one other) making over 1000 hp. I cannot think of a scenerio where 1000+ hp can be used anywhere. Is a 1000+ hp Viper gonna produce better track times or will the extra power simply go up in wheel smoke? Is 1000+ hp just for bragging rights?

It is all about area under the curve (hp & tq), not just peak HP. If you have never driven a high (800+) HP car you NEED to experience it before you make your decision. Once you drive a high HP, big cube turbo car you will not even consider a Paxton as an option. If you add an electronic boost controller, you adjust your desired max HP levels in each gear so there is no need to worry about keeping wheelp spin under control. Don't waste your time or money on a supercharger, however do pick a reputable tuner to fab your TT.

 

[black mamba1]

It is all about area under the curve (hp & tq), not just peak HP. If you have never driven a high (800+) HP car you NEED to experience it before you make your decision. Once you drive a high HP, big cube turbo car you will not even consider a Paxton as an option.

ok, buy why? You can control boost, you can get higher overall horsepower in the 1000 hp range. Does controlling boost translate into a faster car than a Paxton of similar hp? And again, where on earth can 1000+ hp be used? Does a 900 TT Viper do quicker/faster track times than a 900 hp Paxton? I am still getting no answers on that.

 

[jpas]

It is all about area under the curve (hp & tq), not just peak HP. If you have never driven a high (800+) HP car you NEED to experience it before you make your decision. Once you drive a high HP, big cube turbo car you will not even consider a Paxton as an option.

ok, buy why? You can control boost, you can get higher overall horsepower in the 1000 hp range. Does controlling boost translate into a faster car than a Paxton of similar hp? And again, where on earth can 1000+ hp be used? Does a 900 TT Viper do quicker/faster track times than a 900 hp Paxton? I am still getting no answers on that.

YES you will have faster track times, you will get more torque at lower RPM (depending on your turbo selection) then a supercharger. There is a throttle control, so you will not have 1000HP all of the time, only when you want it. Both will be capable of fast 1/4 miles, but the TT will be ALOT more fun. Go find a TT Viper and see if the owner will take your for a drive

 

[v10kingsnake]

I don't think heffner installs blowers anymore, only TT kits he builds. The main difference between 900 hp in a paxton car and 900 for the TT is the efficiency of each system. Most TT kits running 900 hp are still very efficient in making power as with 900 in the paxton they haven't much if anything left in them. they both work awesome. And for the record, to acheive 900 hp with a paxton you better be prepard to spend aprox 20k. The fuel system needs to be upgraded majorly. The vehicle will need headers, head porting, and ECU control like a vec 2 minimally or preferably an aem. What do you think DLM charges for 900hp setups?

 

[grcforce327]

I'm wondering how you got 580hp with those mods listed?Is that at the wheels on a dyno or just a guess at the flywheel?

 

[Disturbed]

Somethings you just can't put numbers to. Somethings you just have to do, to understand. Ride in a 900+rwhp TT viper, ride in a 900+rwhp supercharged viper. This really is the only way you will make up your mind. I've been in both. I like the TT better. If I have 900rwhp in a TT, (depending on the turbo size) I can always upgrade....how much do you want 1500rwhp sure. If you have a SC you can have 900rwhp...but your not going to get much more than that.

As far as when can you use this power Most any on ramps, race tracks or anyplace were it's long flat and no cops works fine for me.

Compairing a SC and TT is like arguing over who is hotter, an Asian chick or a Blonde. I'll take the Asian anyday!

 

[v10kingsnake]

has to be to the flywheel, or he has mods not in his sig (doubtful), or he is going to tell us it was a dyno number to the wheels and no additional mods (Dr. Seuss).

 

[black mamba1]

The 580 hp is what is estimated by my Viper tech, Sir Tator. He installed my mods, I got them from Roe Racing (a great company!). I have not been dynoed yet. Mr. Tator said I should get an estimated 70 hp increase w/ these mods, so, 70+510= 580 hp and yes, that is flywheel.
1 - anode rad. cap = $19.95
1 - 172 degree t-stat = $27.95
1 - set, S&B high flow air filters = $89.95
1 - set, Belanger headers and side pipes = $3795.00
1 - Roe Racing side sill insulation kit = $129.95
1- Vec 3

And again, I am hearing..."the TT feels different"..."the TT is a lot more fun". While I really appreciate this info, that is not scientific and does not mean the 900 hp TT will outperform a 900 hp SC car. And as for the Asian chick Blonde chick example, if both perform the same (nothing derogatory intended! ) but one is twice as expensive as the other...it is a no brainer which chick I pick! Also, I see absolutely no way to use anything over 750 hp on the street in any situation...hell, at 580 I scare the crap out of myself many-a-time!

 

[plumcrazy]

if 580 scares ya, go with the S/C and keep it a base kit. thats gonna get you around 650-700 RWhp. and be a lot cheaper than the TT.

and 850-900 CAN be used on the street with a TT or S/C, it just has to be regulated by your right foot and some common sense. its not a big deal.

 

[black mamba1]

I see. It really seems as if TT is the way to go.

 

[repiv]

The 580 hp is what is estimated by my Viper tech, Sir Tator. He installed my mods, I got them from Roe Racing (a great company!). I have not been dynoed yet. Mr. Tator said I should get an estimated 70 hp increase w/ these mods, so, 70+510= 580 hp and yes, that is flywheel.
1 - anode rad. cap = $19.95
1 - 172 degree t-stat = $27.95
1 - set, S&B high flow air filters = $89.95
1 - set, Belanger headers and side pipes = $3795.00
1 - Roe Racing side sill insulation kit = $129.95
1- Vec 3

And again, I am hearing..."the TT feels different"..."the TT is a lot more fun". While I really appreciate this info, that is not scientific and does not mean the 900 hp TT will outperform a 900 hp SC car. And as for the Asian chick Blonde chick example, if both perform the same (nothing derogatory intended! ) but one is twice as expensive as the other...it is a no brainer which chick I pick! Also, I see absolutely no way to use anything over 750 hp on the street in any situation...hell, at 580 I scare the crap out of myself many-a-time!

I have owned a s/c 670 RWHP car and currently own a 850--1,100 RWHP(depending on the boost) TT car. IMHO you can run 850-900ish RWHP on the street, and use it, depending on how much road you have/what tire you are running. When you get to that level of HP, tires, differential, suspension are also going to have an effect on how the car feels.

As others have previosuly pointed out, a s/c car is going to be exerting a whole lot more effort, and towards the top of each gear you will feel that effort. A TT car just pulls through the top of each gear.

The simple answer is all other things being equal, (drive, tire, etc) a 900 HP TT car will outperfrom a 900 HP S/C car.

 

[black mamba1]

As others have previosuly pointed out, a s/c car is going to be exerting a whole lot more effort, and towards the top of each gear you will feel that effort. A TT car just pulls through the top of each gear.

Thanks for that, now, does that mean the 900 TT car will out accelerate the 900 s/c car in say the 1/4 or the 1/2 mile? Will the 900 TT have a higher top speed? Will the 900 TT do better than the 900 s/c at say, Lime Rock?

 

[BlueGTS]

if 580 scares ya, go with the S/C and keep it a base kit. thats gonna get you around 650-700 RWhp. and be a lot cheaper than the TT.

Exactly!!! If you think your ~485wheel is scary do not even think about 900wheel. Honestly, you have no idea what that number actually represents in brutal acceleration. Get a base Paxton kit and put down 620wheel. That is over 700 crank and you will be very pleased.

 

[Disturbed]

If 580bhp is too much for you. Don't get a SC or TT. H/C will be enough. I'm knocking on the door of 600rwhp...N/A. 550rwhp is no sweat with these motors N/A.

 

[black mamba1]

If 580bhp is too much for you. Don't get a SC or TT. H/C will be enough. I'm knocking on the door of 600rwhp...N/A. 550rwhp is no sweat with these motors N/A.

Nahh, I never said it was too much for me I said I have had some scary moments. That is primarily b/c I am in CT and the roads in CT are congested almost 24 hrs/day so anytime I get into it I have to get out of it really quick...but since I am really focusing on track performance that is really my concern. I have been racing cars and motorcycles all my life, I will adjust. Its just that I know of one or two guys w/ 1000+ hp Vipers and they said that if they had it to do all over they would have stayed w/ the 850 hp or so s/c. I am simply wondering where is the threshold from usable power, to unusable power for a car we drive around to shows, events, etc. Where is the threshold from brutally fast to plain ole stupid impractical fast???