998 recall done incorrectly??

[V10SpeedLuvr]

It seems like I previously read on here that an incorrect 998 recall results in it being near impossible to do an oil change. I had the 998 recall done on my 96' RT/10 about a month ago, and when we went to change my oil last week (1st time since I've owned the car), it seemed a lot more difficult than it shouldve been. The filter unscrewed fine, but there was no way to get the filter out from under the car! It slid up and down the frame fine, but was no where for it to actually drop below so we could remove it. We had my car on the alignment rack at work and had to use the sliding part of the rack (the part that slides up and down the center of the rack. im not sure whats its called) and slide it under the part of the frame where the filter was and lift the frame to be able to remove the filter. Is this normal on a Viper? If the car hadnt been on the alignment rack, I dont see how we wouldve ever got the filter off. Does it sound like I have a botched 998 recall? If so, anyway to get it corrected?

 

[hemibeep]

The "triangles" that are riveted should be on the front side of the cross brace. Perhaps the filter was just a longer than normal one. On my car, the filter can be unscrewed and drop down and out with the car flat on the ground. I have changed the oil without even a jack.

 

[Viper Wizard]

Yup, that's a "botched" Recall!
I've repaired 14 from other Dealers that way! You now need to find a Dealer that knows how to do it correctly.

 

[Tom Sessions]

Chad,The triangle shaped pieces that are riveted to the frame should be pointing towards the front of the car.If they are going towards the rear they will cover up the area that the oil filter would normally come thru.the oil filter shuld come off just like before the recall. Call me and I'll let you now what you options are for fixing it correctly.
Tom
910-228-8477

 

[Tom Sessions]

Man Chuck your fast or I type really slow.

 

[Viper Wizard]

Man Chuck your fast or I type really slow.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Yup, that's a "botched" Recall!
I've repaired 14 from other Dealers that way! You now need to find a Dealer that knows how to do it correctly.

Thats what I was afraid of. I live in GA and I called a few dealerships in Atlanta, but surprisingly, all said they did not do the 998 recall. The Dodge dealership about 1/4 mile from my dealership said they would sublet it out to a welding shop down the street, so the welding shop actually did the recall. All the Dodge dealership did was send the 998 recall information down to them. I knew I was prob in trouble when I went to pick up my car and the dealership told me the welding shop misread the instructions and had left off 1 of the recall pieces, so it would have to go back. I never had the free time so the car didnt go back to them, and now it never will. Well, guess i'll be on the phone with them pretty early tomorrow....I can already smell my blood pressure rising

 

[Steve-Indy]

On a Gen I, the oil filter is mounted at an angle...and, at least on our 2, impossible to get off directly without sliding it rearward quite a way, then pulling it out from between the frame and the engine.

Interestingly, I changed the oil on our red/yellow 96 RT/10 JUST BEFORE the 998 recall was done and had a problem very similar to yours...while on my 4 post lift. So, I slid the jack bridge under it and used a small bottle jack to lift right corner, allowing the right front tire to droop, and slid filter out over the front suspension.

At first, I wondered about a problem with the right motor mount...but it appeared intact to me AND to a very experienced Tech upon close inspection done at my request.
Later, I decided that this was probably a manifestation of the engine "creep" that I have seen on several Vipers where the right side gradually rides UP on the motor mount (closing the original gap just a little) and the left side goes lower. "Viper Wizard" has addressed this "creep" in several posts concerning header installation questions where guys complain that with the new headers, the right sided pipe is too close to the upper side of the sidesill, and the left pipe seems about 2 inches too low. Wizard correctly advises "re-cradling" the engine in the mounts. This certainly has worked on a friends headers.

The next time that I change the oil on the 96 RT/10, I'll recheck it for the engine "creep"...and, by the way, Chuck (Viper Wizard) tells me that this is due to DECELERATION torque forces.

Finally, you are correct about some improperly done 998 recalls BLOCKING access to the oil filter on some Vipers...this is very obvious, especially on the full blown Gen II's where the filter normally can be dropped nearly straight down...the problem was due to an admitted mislabeling of the recall brackets at the source, coupled with a less than experienced installer following the errant labels without applying a common sense visual crosscheck (at least in MY opinion...with my "retrospectoscope") of the oil filter's future accessibility.

The key to determining the correct placement of the triangular braces after the recall lies in whether your VIEW of the filter is blocked when you stand directly under the filter and look up...Hope this is at least a minor help...others may add better info or insights.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Man, a BUNCH hopped on this while I was typing...Viper Wizard and Tom Sessions can both bail you out if needed.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Yup, that's a "botched" Recall!
I've repaired 14 from other Dealers that way! You now need to find a Dealer that knows how to do it correctly.

Thats what I was afraid of. I live in GA and I called a few dealerships in Atlanta, but surprisingly, all said they did not do the 998 recall. The Dodge dealership about 1/4 mile from my dealership said they would sublet it out to a welding shop down the street, so the welding shop actually did the recall. All the Dodge dealership did was send the 998 recall information down to them. I knew I was prob in trouble when I went to pick up my car and the dealership told me the welding shop misread the instructions and had left off 1 of the recall pieces, so it would have to go back. I never had the free time so the car didnt go back to them, and now it never will. Well, guess i'll be on the phone with them pretty early tomorrow....I can already smell my blood pressure rising

It is likely OK for dealers to subcontract this recall. To be able to perform the recall special training is required, and a Dodge requires a "Dodge" certified welder. The Viper frame is made of a steel called "Galvaneel" steel, it requires a specific weld wire to repair, and if the correct wire is not used, the weld can fail. Hopefully that info was in the notice sent to the welder...............

 

[Steve-Indy]

Jay makes a good point about the welding necessary to meet the D-C requirements for this recall...as our members started inquiring around our 2 state Region, MOST dealers did not have the necessary type of apparatus, and we could find only ONE who laid out the $$$$ (I was told $9000.00) to buy the correct welder to complete said recall. Needless to say, that dealer did MOST of the recalls in our area.

Interestingly, I had the opportunity to see one Viper whose recall was done at another location with the "shop welder on hand" and there was frame damage done from the welding process.

In my opinion, it pays to go to a place that has done many (not a few)...and, have it done by someone who REALLY cares !!! The local VCA members know the correct places/people.

 

[ViperBing]

Are there any qualified dealers that can perform this recall correctly in the Maryland Virginia area?

 

[LETHAL GTS]

In my opinion, it pays to go to a place that has done many (not a few)...and, have it done by someone who REALLY cares !!! The local VCA members know the correct places/people.

Ya especially when DC cannot provide the correct instructions and still to this date (as far as I know) has not educated their dealers as to the correct procedure. I haven't had mine done yet, because the dealership that is doing ours here in central Canada has just finally been convinced that they have been doing them all wrong. Boy it wasn't easy convincing a service manager that he's doing something wrong.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

I talked to the Service Manager at the Dodge dealership this morning and he apologized and said for me to bring the Viper back in and he'd get the welding shop to install the piece they forgot and to straighten out the botched work they have already done. When I inquired about sending it somewhere else, I was told they are the only place that he knows that will even do the recall. I guess we'll see if the second time is the charm...

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Good luck, it sounds like he is trying to correct their error. It is a pain to get this redone by someone else ,as DC does not like to pay twice for a recall,so it is in your best interest, as well as the Dealer's to get this fixed for you.

 

[luc]

Bill:

How much time ($) do DC allow for the 998 ?

I have not done it on my 00GTS because a/ I don't track the car and the steering rack is fine and b/ because of all the horror stories.

I did go the repair kit, very cheap from what I remember,in case I change my mind .

Luc 00GTS

 

[Steve-Indy]

Guys, I REALLY would NOT be afraid to have the recall done by a dealer that HAS done MANY, has a good track record, AND, about whom you can get positive feedback from your local VCA officers. It is WORTH IT to do the homework FIRST.

Three of our Vipers had the recall and I am perfectly HAPPY with the results !!!! I should mention that 2 had 998(steering rack and diff) and one had 999 (steering rack only).

 

[LETHAL GTS]

The trick is to find one that's not 10 hours away.

 

[PhoenixGTS]

Good luck, it sounds like he is trying to correct their error. It is a pain to get this redone by someone else ,as DC does not like to pay twice for a recall,so it is in your best interest, as well as the Dealer's to get this fixed for you.

Eddie Martin here at Bill Luke Dodge got DC to pay for my redo. He took lots of pictures and made up a presentation for DC who he believed was going to go back to the offending dealer for reimbursement.

My understanding is that niether the 998 nor 999 recal require welding unless there are visible cracks in the critical areas already present when the recalls are done. If there are no cracks already you are supposed to use rivets so you do not have to heat the frame.

 

[BLUESNAKE367]

Are there any qualified dealers that can perform this recall correctly in the Maryland Virginia area?

I had mine done at Vabeach Dodge, probably too far for you, but, the Viper Tech is top shelf,(although the dealership itself really *****) he stood right there supervising the body shop while they did the welding...he performed a total 998 recall (front and rear braces and pop rivets)

also never had a problem getting to the oil filter...

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Rather than cutting/grinding the wrong ones of could you not just cut a round hole in the triangle plate itself so the filter will drop through..
And get the recall done again the right way..
Baz

 

[Steve-Indy]

PhoenixGTS said " My understanding is that niether the 998 nor 999 recal require welding unless there are visible cracks in the critical areas already present when the recalls are done. If there are no cracks already you are supposed to use rivets so you do not have to heat the frame."

RESPECTFULLY, I would say that I believe that this is INCORRECT...though I would agree that some "quickie recalls" were done without welding...including one at the request of the owner (as the owner related the story to me)...BAD BUSINESS, in my opinion.

In May of 2002, Henry Cone (renowned Viper racer, Regional officer, and ENGINEER) posted:

"Guys, I'll try to shed more light on this recall. I now have a copy of 998 and have reviewed it in detail. There are several suggestions that I can offer from this.
1. Don't panic!! And don't get in too big a hurry to get this done - be sure that you have inspected your car so that you know what you are getting in to.

2. Recall 998 is for all 96 to 99 cars up to a build date of March 1, 1999 - these cars require inspection of both the steering rack mount welds as well as the left side differential mounts. Recall 999 covers 1999 and 2000 cars and only requires inspection of ths steering rack mount - there was apparently a running change to the rear frame differential mounts.

3. THIS IS IMPORTANT - Most cars (I would guess 98+ %) will not have any cracks and will require only the addition of the steering rack mount reinforcement pieces (both 998 and 999) and the differential mount reinforcement pieces (recall 998 only). Cars most likely to have cracks are ones run at the track on Hoosiers or slicks, dragged with slicks or other high traction drag tires. or that have been damaged in an accident. We have numerous Viper Days events on both of our cars with me in the gravel traps on several occasions and Janni having hit a wall hard enough to break the steering rack assembly but neither of our cars show any cracks. How do I know?? We inspect them after each and every track event.

4. For the front (recalls 998 and 999), if inspection does not reveal any cracks then all that is required is the additional of several frame reinforcement pieces. One of them does require welding and there are very specific instructions in the recall as to how this is to be done. The other 2 pieces involve grinding off some existing gussets and replacing them with larger ones that are riveted in place with numerous structural steel rivets. Except for the welding this reinforcement is relatively straight forward as it does not require any dissasembly, etc. NO ALIGNMENT WORK IS REQUIRED UNLESS CRACKS ARE FOUND!! So the only difficultly is applying the recalls to most cars is the welding.

5. For the rear (recall 998 only) the directions require that the differential be removed to do the inspection. If no weld cracks are found several frame reinforcements are added . The one on the right side is relatively straight forward. The one on the left side is more complicated but neither requires welding. Both of these reinforcements are riveted in place with numerous structural steel rivets. AGAIN NO ALIGNMENT WORK IS REQUIRED UNLESS CRACKS ARE FOUND!!!

6. The labor time shown for the front is 2.6 hours to inspect the steering rack mount and add the reinforcements if no weld cracks are found. This seems very reasonable.

7. The labor time shown for the rear is 2.7 hours to remove the differential, inspect the mounts for cracks, install the reimforcement pieces, and reinstall the differential if no weld cracks are found. This seems to be pushing it a bit but is not too far off - the actual time may vary depending upon the exhaust system on the car as this will have to be partially removed to remove the differential.

8. THE ABOVE SHOULD BE ALL THAT IS REQUIRED FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF CARS!!! My suggestion is to inspect your car for weld cracks yourself and / or make sure that they are absolutely present before authorizing anything other than adding the reinforcements. DON"T ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE CRACKS AND WANT THE MORE DRASTIC REPAIRS MADE!!! The reason that I say this is that if cracks are present the recall repair procedure is involved enough that it will require a very good and careful tech to get you car back to being right. And complete alignments will required for each end of the car that requires the full recall repair procedure. My fear is that an incorrectly done full recall could leave a car worse off than before the work was done!!!

9. If steering rack mount cracks are found in the front, the repair procedure requires the complete replacement of the steering rack mount with a new one. This is very involved and getting the new one welded in place in exactly the right position is going to be difficult and tedious. After a new rack mount is installed the reinforcements are added. Then several hours of front end alignment work are required. 2.0 hours of labor is allowed for changing the mount with some portion of 3.4 hours af total alignment time allowed used for the front end alignment. My view is that you don't want to have to have this done unless it is absolutely necessary.

10. If differential mount cracks are found at the rear things get really involved. Because of the welding required it is necesary to removed the fuel tank from the car. Several reinforcement pieces are welded in place to reinforce the rear frame about the differential. The welding required is involved and extencive. The total time for the rear differential mount repair (including removing the fuel tank) ranges from between 6.5 and 7.6 hours depending upon the car (coupe or roadster) and how bad the cracking is. Again some portion of 3.4 hours of alignment is also required to get the rear suspension aligned correctly. Again my view is that you don't want to have this done unless it is absolutely necessary.

I hope that the above information helps!! We will try to post some of the drawings of the areas to be inspected out of the recalls tomorrow. Feel free to contact us with questions. And of course we will be trying to get suitable arrangements set up for our Carolinas Region members."

 

[PhoenixGTS]

RESPECTFULLY, I would say that I believe that this is INCORRECT...though I would agree that some "quickie recalls" were done without welding...including one at the request of the owner (as the owner related the story to me)...BAD BUSINESS, in my opinion.

Thanks for commenting. It was the material in Paragraphs 9 and 10 I was thinking about. May 2002 is over three years ago. Any possibility the comments in Paragraph 4 are out of date?

P.S. If you ever stood under a car with the front gussets on backwards you would see that you cannot simply drill a hole in the passenger side to allow oil filter removal. The filter is bigger than the offending part of the gusset, and the gusset is in the way of a properly installed replacement.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Good question, Michael...so at this point, I'll have to defer to a REAL mechanic such as Chuck or Tom...noting that I watched a 999 recall in progress 2 weeks ago which confirmed that the brackets and welding were the same as all the others that I have watched at this particular dealership.

I really DO feel for the folks who do not have access to an experienced Viper Tech backed by a well equipped shop...noting that if I were in their shoes, I'd arrange to drive or ship our Vipers to the a known, first class Tech.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Chad...did you ever get a chance to get under your car to see if recall plates OK....you know, they way our 96 RT/10 is made...you CAN'T block filter access the same way that happens on a GTS with a botched 998 recall due to the different location and angle on the Gen I's filter position...just changed oil on 95 and 96 RT/10, and again, had to lift filter out over to the right side with right frame jacked up a little bit on the 96 ( didn't want to take the time to wrestle with motor mounts).

Hopefully, things are OK.

 

[ruckdr]

V10Speedluvr,
So far everyone is giving you information in words - here is a picture of the triangle plates in the correct location. The top of the picture is toward the front of the car, and the bottom is toward the rear. This plate is on the drivers side. If the plate is reversed, it would cover up the square tube brace that forms a triangle to the rear of the cross piece (partially shown at lower left of picture). It makes NO sense (idiotic) for anyone to put it on backwards regardless if the instructions are clear or not - WHY brace an already braced area (the angle braces I mentioned above).

 

[GTS Dean]

I'm with you Don. The name of the game is to stiffen the steering rack support. Installing the plate gussets backwards does nothing to help the situation.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Chad...did you ever get a chance to get under your car to see if recall plates OK....you know, they way our 96 RT/10 is made...you CAN'T block filter access the same way that happens on a GTS with a botched 998 recall due to the different location and angle on the Gen I's filter position...just changed oil on 95 and 96 RT/10, and again, had to lift filter out over to the right side with right frame jacked up a little bit on the 96 ( didn't want to take the time to wrestle with motor mounts).

Hopefully, things are OK.

After I informed Dodge the recall may have been done incorrectly, it went back to the welding shop and the owner re-read the 998 recall paperwork and after looking at my car, said the recall had been done right. He also noted that on my car, the welding was not done anywhere near the oil filter. i had noticed this myself previously, but thought maybe I was missing something that had been done under the recall and was blocking access. I am getting a new oil pressure sensor in my car some day next week and will take digital pics of the recall work/oil filter while the car is up on the lift. i'll post the pics and everyone can chime in on why i had such a hardtime getting the oil filter off. Thanks for all the help so far guys.

 

[Camfab]

My Dodge dealer was good enough to print out the entire 999 recall for me. I will probably have to buy the recall parts and perform the work myself. I know my skill level with regards to welding, and no dealer will be welding on my car. If they refuse to sell me the parts I will just have to fabricate them. Anyway as stated above their is welding to be done on the 999 recall and the factory instructions are extremely complete, with exact welding wire requirements.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks for the update Chad...you might want to check on your motor mounts and the position of the engine in relation to them as that is what changed on our 96 RT to make the oil filter hard to slide out by going toward the rear an down (like it had always done on previous changes) as I noted above. Not hard to correct.