A Cold Hearted way to save Detroit car companies

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Jerry Scott[CO]

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If Chrysler would step up to the plate by filing Chapter 11, then the other two car companies would also have to do the same. This would be their one chance to break the union contracts, move the assembly operations to the southern states and start making cars with the same wages that the Japanese are paying. The government could make bridge loans until the process is complete. Some jobs would be lost, but for the most part, jobs would just relocate to the South and continue making cars. It would not be a popular idea in Michigan, but it would get us out of the mess that we are in now. And who knows, maybe the parts manufacturers would not have to move, but continue operating at their present locations, but with less burden. In the long run, that's what has to happen if the big three are to continue making cars in this country. Just my 2 cents of opinion of course, since everyone seems to have one.
Jerry
 

RMBSRT

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I do not see how the Viper, and its v12, will survive this new age of autos. It just does not fit.

Get one while you can.
 

Darbgnik

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So you suggest we import Euro cars, just not Mercedes, British POS and French cars? Yuck, that may help the GM and Ford with some cashflow from cars made out of country? It certainly won't help the US or Canada. Another way to accomplish your idea would be to buy $5,000Chinese cars, gov. taxes them and Dodge GM and Ford sell them for $15,000 so that everyone makes money except the autoworkers and american industries.

We need UPS to die/strangle so that Canadians buy American instead of Chinese. I bought a $9 TMPS Forgeline sensor mounting kit and UPS is charging about $23 for shipping and $34 for "Brokerage". Next time I should buy Chinese as it's only about $7.00 shipping and no brokerage. Now do you know why our economy is screwed???

I paid over $200 for a TPMS from Viper Specialty in US, then paid $24 shipping and about $34 Brokerage. I see that they're $30-45 from ebay. I only have to pay brokerage from US, the rest of the world is free. Cda/US trade wars or just greedy shipping companies? Too much fuel taxes?

Ted

I always request shipping from USA via USPS, no brokerage fees ever. Its the only way for parts to travel to Canada:headbang:
 

RTTTTed

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Fed ex and USPS merely send the bill in the mail a month later. After not getting paid a few times they send you order back to the shipper and charge him freight fo non-delivery. Supposedly air freight is nonBS fees, but I've been charged BS on airfreight as well.

I guess I just spend too much money? I should buy my stuff from China 'cause it's free of terrorism and shipping is much cheaper?

I paid freight of $6 on some 'baubles' from china, but anything I buy from US costs freight over $25 PLUS BS charges (lately $36 each).

Tell your Gov. reps that discouraging "cross border" shopping is another cause of our economic problems.

Ted
 

Darbgnik

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Ive been charged brokerage fees after the fact but never from USPS, honestly. And I've spent thousands as well, and for sure on big ticket items there will be a cost for tax, duty or both, but if you're spending a grand, who cares about 30 bucks. Understandably if you're spending 50 and then get charged 30 on top it almost doubles the cost. Thats the reason I never use UPS (forgot for a while which one was which) alphabet soup so close:dunno: I ordered a 45 dollar box, got charged 55 to sign for it, total ripoff. But I've never been charged brokerage fees from USPS even when I had to pay duty. Just my experience. And again, only really relevant on small items. I dont mean to argue.

Brad
 

RTTTTed

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I would guess that may mean that it's the province of BC that's being "so diligent" in collecting all the BS fees?

I quit buying from ebay after getting charged $80+ Brokerage and $23 shipping for a $10 Throttle body. I think I eventually got a refund as they said that the value used was the insured value and all parcels are insured for $100 - that's why the high BS fees?

Since BC charges more taxes than anywhere else and Alberta charges it's residents the least in the country ... ???

I didn't mean to sound like a whiner, but I'm trying to show that it's obvious why we have economic problems.

Ted
 
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Tom F&L GoR

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Sorry I haven't read all the comments, but this was cute enough to throw in anyway.

[media]http://garrettwalker.com/today_at/content/images/auto_comp.jpeg[/media]
 
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Tom F&L GoR

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More humor...
bailout.jpg
 

Darbgnik

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Dangerous waters to wade into.... I'm a union member to start, so I understand the situation the UAW is in, on the other hand, my union, not the employer has the sole responsibility of ensuring my benefits and retirement are still there when I need them. Expecting a company to keep paying for me when I'm gone seems like a strange concept to me. And I have a funny feeling that at the end of the year, they have to be scratching their heads saying "this guy? He hasnt been here for years. What are we paying him for?" What should be done is the big three pay into a benefits plan managed by UAW. The company makes benefit payments along with the employees wages, then when the employee is gone its up to his benefit manager to ensure he's got money coming in. The company pays up front, but then doesn't have to carry a legacy of debt. Seems like more sense to pay for him while he's still making you money. As it stands: seems like GM is into "buy now, pay later" never a good practice. Just my $0.02.
As an aside, it's a lot easier for an American to buy Japanese than the other way around. Don't forget the deck is not stacked even.
 

Darbgnik

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Globally, Toyota tied GM for vehicle sales in 2007.

In 2007, both Toyota and GM sold 9.37 million vehicles.

Toyota earned $17.1-billion (U.S.) on those sales, while GMlost $38.7-billion.

That equates to 1800 dollars per vehicle. Less than the 2000 dollar per vehicle GM spends on workers no longer on the assembly line. Hmmmm.:dunno:

Im not a GM fan, but they are at a disadvantage.
 

Steve 00RT/10

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Globally, Toyota tied GM for vehicle sales in 2007.

In 2007, both Toyota and GM sold 9.37 million vehicles.

Toyota earned $17.1-billion (U.S.) on those sales, while GMlost $38.7-billion.

I fully understand Toyota....in the black. GM in the red big time. .... but to be fair, all is not a bed of roses for foreign car companies. Toyota's stock has dropped by almost 50% since 2/08

Steve


PREVIEW-Toyota to cut sales goal, outline cost-cutting steps 12/15 04:06 AM

* WHAT: Toyota year-end news conference
* WHEN: Monday Dec. 22 at 0630 GMT
* May cut 2009 sales forecast by as much as 18 pct
* Factory delays, executive pay cuts also possible
By Chang-Ran Kim, Asia autos correspondent
TOKYO, Dec 15 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (TOYOF:$33.1500,$2.3500,7.63%) <7203.T>, the world's top automaker, is expected to slash its 2009 sales forecast by at least 1 million vehicles and outline plans to cut costs as the financial crisis threatens to cripple the industry.
A global slowdown and credit crunch have depressed consumer sentiment, forcing automakers from Fiat SpA (FIADF:$7.8778,$0.0000,0.00%) <FIA.MI> to Ford Motor Co (F:$3.13,00$0.09,002.96%) to reduce production and forecast an even bleaker outlook for 2009.
General Motors Corp (GM:$4.121,0$0.181,04.59%) and Chrysler [CBS.UL] have said they risk bankruptcy without government support, a prospect with dire ramifications for auto parts suppliers, joint venture partners and the U.S. economy.
Toyota has said it will announce revised 2009 sales forecasts at its year-end news conference on Dec. 22. It lowered forecasts in August before car demand started tanking as the global economy imploded with the failure of Lehman Brothers.
"We think further production cuts are unavoidable and believe Japanese branded carmakers should prepare for a deep retrenchment in demand," JPMorgan analyst Kohei Takahashi wrote in a report.
Japanese media have estimated Toyota's group-wide global vehicle sales for 2009 at between 8-8.7 million units, down from the record 9.37 million in 2007 and far from the company's most recent forecast of 9.7 million units. [ID:nT6192]
In the first 10 months of 2008 the group, which includes Daihatsu Motor Co (DHTMF:$8.4000,$0.0000,0.00%) <7262.T> and Hino Motors Ltd (HINOF:$2.3938,$0.0000,0.00%) <7205.T>, sold 7.74 million vehicles, down 0.9 percent.
Toyota's rare decision to offer zero-percent financing in the United States has not helped, and it has resorted to more plant stoppages to prevent a further inventory buildup. Not even the gas-electric hybrid Prius has been spared, with sales down 48 percent last month.
Toyota built one-third fewer vehicles in North America in November than a year before, but that still wasn't enough to match a 34 percent plunge in sales. Toyota is still saddled with 92 days' worth of vehicle inventory in the United States.
PROFITS UNDER PRESSURE
That is certain to put pressure on profits, forecasts for which Toyota reduced by more than half last month.
Toyota said at the time that it would do everything it could to meet the new operating profit forecast of 600 billion yen ($6.6 billion) in the year to March 2009 -- down 1 trillion yen from initial forecasts.
Options included halving the number of temporary workers in Japan, delaying new factory launches and cutting research and development costs, it said. Reducing salaries and bonus payments for directors is also on the table.
Toyota has more than a dozen production projects in the pipeline, including plans to build the Prius at a new factory in Mississippi from 2010, expand vehicle capacity by more than 55 percent in China in the next few years, and build new car plants in India and Brazil. It also has a new joint venture factory for batteries due in early 2010 to power hybrid cars.
"It would be natural to expect a delay in new factories planned in China, Brazil, India and North America," said Tairiku Sakaguchi, auto analyst at Shinko Securities.
Credit Suisse analyst Koji Endo expects Toyota to reduce capital spending to slightly below 1 trillion yen next business year, compared with its estimate of 1.4 trillion yen for 2008/09.
Some analysts expect Toyota to take measures that would bring short-term pain but help secure profits next year.
"They earned quite a bit in the first half so there's little danger of falling into the red for the full year," said Goldman Sachs auto analyst Kota Yuzawa, who lowered his 2008/09 operating profit forecast for Toyota to 208 billion from 624 billion yen.
"I expect both Toyota and Honda to reduce production significantly in the January-March quarter, so the negative impact will come this business year, allowing them to start 2009/10 on a healthier note."
Two other brokerages that updated their forecasts this month put Toyota's operating profit at 330 billion yen this year.
DIVIDEND DILEMMA
With more analysts predicting a second-half loss, some have raised the possibility that Toyota would lower its annual dividend from the 140 yen it paid last year. Toyota does not provide a dividend forecast.
"We anticipate that even Toyota could see its post-dividend cash flow turn negative should it keep its dividends at 140 yen," Morgan Stanley analyst Noriaki Hirakata wrote in a report.
"Thus, in this perfect storm, we expect the firm to cut its dividend to 100 yen per share for this business year."
Shinko Securities' Sakaguchi said, however, that would be a reversal from the company's position in November, potentially spurring selling of Toyota's shares, which have fallen almost 50 percent so far this year. ($1=90.92 Yen) (Editing by Lincoln Feast)
 

big-n-italian

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gentlemen, i am learning alot from all of of you and this thread has been an enjoyable read up to this point, but i would like to remind all of you of site policy #1.

  1. All posts must conform to a standard that is acceptable in content to Prime Time Broadcast Network TV (TVPG http://www.tvguidelines.org/ratings.asp). ******, *********** or profanity (this includes "unique" spelling of profane words) will not be tolerated. Posts not maintaining this standard will be subject to deletion.
please conform to it.
 

big-n-italian

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gentlemen, i think we are done here. i really dont want to spend the rest of the evening deleting and editing out profanity and persoanl attacks. i have much better things to do. i hope you will join me in considering this thread closed.
 
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