Hockeysnake
Viper Owner
Can anyone tell me if there are any pluses or minuses to either the "H" pipe configuration or an "X" pipe configuration?
About to go in for the Muffler Delete...
- Thread starter Hockeysnake
- Start date
The muffler shop that did mine wanted to go with an "X" pipe. In his opinion it would weld up better and flow better. Don't know if there is anything scientific, just his opinion.
It is a clean look and makes sense to me.
It is a clean look and makes sense to me.
LPE 383
Enthusiast
Make sure the pipes & tips are not too close to the rear bumper cutout or the increased heat can melt a hole in the bumper facia opening.
V10 MOJO
Enthusiast
John, you have a muffler delete?? didnt sound that loud? what other exhaust mods do you have if any? ive been contemplating the delete but with corsa and belangers i thought itd end up being too loud
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Slightly different sound between H and X. I don't know how noticable the difference is though. Probably not much.
First: What NOT to do:
Yes, Someone actually had this made for a Viper and tried to sell it saying it was good for something like 40 hp!
>>>>> go with the X or short as possible H and as far forward as possible and don't pass too much heat onto the differential.
Sound is way better when both sides are mixed - in my opinion. It will raise the pitch a bit and cut down on drone vs no balance pipe.
no power benefit, sound only. It's just too far downstream in the exhaust.
People outside the car watching it go into the horizon might hear a "whistle" at WOT but you'll never hear it inside the car.
The Dr. Gas stuff is nice IF you can get the unit placed just after the collector and in front of the cats (which you can't do on these Vipers).
Yes, Someone actually had this made for a Viper and tried to sell it saying it was good for something like 40 hp!
>>>>> go with the X or short as possible H and as far forward as possible and don't pass too much heat onto the differential.
Sound is way better when both sides are mixed - in my opinion. It will raise the pitch a bit and cut down on drone vs no balance pipe.
no power benefit, sound only. It's just too far downstream in the exhaust.
People outside the car watching it go into the horizon might hear a "whistle" at WOT but you'll never hear it inside the car.
The Dr. Gas stuff is nice IF you can get the unit placed just after the collector and in front of the cats (which you can't do on these Vipers).
GTSPOWERED
Enthusiast
I had my car done just the other week and I could not ask for more. the shop removed the rear system from the last clamps and removed it from the stock hangers, then cut the muffler inlet pipes and exit pipes off with a sawzaw. then they expanded the inlet pipe a small amount installed the proper length pipe and put everything back in place using the stock hangers. They spot welded it giving me the option to ajust position then welded it all tight. this only cost $74.00. It sounds great.
Dixter
Enthusiast
While there, go ahead and drop the resognators too....
Nexus-6
Enthusiast
I replaced with a snaky oyl delete subsection w/no H or X pipe.
I have no resonance and the sound is great - not sure what kind of difference the crossover pipe would do for me but I'm happy w/o it.
I have no resonance and the sound is great - not sure what kind of difference the crossover pipe would do for me but I'm happy w/o it.
Gee thanks Marv, there's always one smart ***. I made that U pipe, it dropped my ET from 12.39 to 12.16 & 12.12 in back to back runs! Online calculators say that ET drop is good for 25hp...I COULD say don't spend $1500 on headers that might give you 25hp, but I have more tact that you..
And while we're on the subject, X pipes or H pipes in the last foot of exhaust aren't going to do anything for power. What part of 25hp for about $80 don't you understand??? 25hp from a proper (one foot beind the collector or so) H pipe is no secret to anyone with any real drag racing background. You lose poser.
jimandela
Enthusiast
my new B&B catback has a X pipe!
genXgts
Enthusiast
Hey funny stuff, just had mine done today, I'll put a thread up about it, check it out.
GCHDEALER
Enthusiast
Love my Belangers sounds great not to loud but just right. I think that I will get some high flow cats just to see if that will make it just a touch louder w/ no back pop.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
pics of X or H pipes on Vipers?
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
someone get Dr. gas to make a kit for a Viper! gen1&2
Rich, I have the muffler delete and Roe oval cats. As long as you leave some type of cat on, the exhaust will stay pretty mellow. Headers don't affect sound much at all. I did not want a loud exhaust either, but this setup is an animprovement over the anemic stock exhaust note. Oh yeah and it netted me 2 tenths at the track.
ps - I am going to be smoking the drag radials up this weekend. mid 11's here I come.
Maui, no need for Dr Gas! I did make one for my '94, as you can see from the picture above. Why Marv decided to ridicule it is beyond me. Of all the people who've seen it online, he's been the only one to knock it. I never claimed 40hp, just 25hp, and it 'does' go on in front of the cats. But it's not for sale, at least not this one, it's going on my 2002FE soon. Problem is, Vipers don't have a lot of ground clearance. Only about 5". So a 2.5" pipe like this takes up half of that. But it is easily removable via the three-bolt flanges. It'd be a good roadrace or autocross piece too. I'm working on a kit to sell. The '94 RT/10 it knocked .25sec off of had BFG Drag Radials and a shift light. So traction, and my shifting were consistent. The improvement was entirely from the pipe... I guess some people just need shiny, expensive parts to be convinced they've bought a piece that's making horsepower..
Well Richard, read my post again about the effect of the crossover effect in the rear of a Viper. it said: "no power benefit, sound only. It's just too far downstream in the exhaust."
I try to give accurate info to Viper owners and don’t usually go directly at something. Sometimes, though, items come along that defy common sense to an extensive degree. Before anyone goes out and has their favorite exhaust fabricator build something like that thing, consider the theory and reasons for a balance pipe so you make an informed decision on more than one, single claim of power increase. Some claims that come up on the internet just have to be thought through and not taken as pure fact.
[*] #1: Exhaust theory 101: Power gains from exhaust can come from increasing the velocity. “The reason an X-Pipe crossover works better than an H-pipe crossover isn't more flow because of volume, but more effective use of exhaust gas velocity, How And Why "X"-Pipes Work
By Bruce Wayne, MagnaFlow Performance.” This device does nothing to help velocity, which is a primary reason balance devices are used for increasing power. In fact, it will lower exhaust temps (not what you want at that point in the system) and could very well increase backpressure and impair the flow.
[*]#2: Exhaust theory 201: Just placing a balance pipe after the collector is no guarantee that power will increase especially if the pipe is 6 feet long. While 25 hp increases from proper “H” pipes may occur, this is far from a design that is far, far from “proper”. For an increase in power there has to be an increase in scavage and velocity. It’s bringing the pulses together in one area. Funny thing, the Exhaust tuners, the pros, the racers, have found that shortening the distance between the exhausts to make the a combined unit is superior. That is why conclusions are that “X” pipes are better than “H”. Wait, here’s articles that actually measures an “H” pipe and then shortens it to become an “X” pipe and guess what? The shorter “X” pipe showed more power. http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05racepgs.htm and http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/69238/ And now there is ProChamber http://www.rpmoutlet.com/03cobramac.htm that claims to make the “H” and “X” obsolete. But it’s also very short. In simple terms, the balance tube should be very short, or even merge both sides of the exhaust. The longer the pipe, the more bends in the pipe, and the velocity slows as the exhaust is looking for the path of least resistance.
[*]#3: No theory here (just what do racers use?). I tend to believe that if there were 25 hp by placing a balance pipe of any size, anywhere in the exhaust system the GTS-R cars would have had one and other tuners would be all over it. Nascar has been onto these balance pipes for years. They keep ‘em short.
[*]#4: Team Viper said: Viper Magazine Tech Notes Winter 2000. Herb Helbig noted that they tried a balance pipe on a dyno and saw,
Funny thing, these odd fire V-10 motors.
[*]#5: No data to show this big, long pipe anything. Sorry, but I’ve seen 1320' times go up and down for lots of reasons. What was the mph data on those runs? A less powerful car that hooks up can turn a quicker time than a higher power car that has traction issues. Maybe that’s what happened. How about a dyno test with block off plates on and then dyno test with the tube on? No? I Didn’t think so.
[*] #6: The trend has been to shorten these balance pipes. Dr. Gas, Bassani, MagnaFlow, B&B, and the list goes on. Perhaps you can patent this design and sell it to one of them. If you have a design that can increase hp by 25 for $80 you have taken the “bang for the buck” title away from the smooth tubes and filters.
So let’s see, this design of a L-O-N-G balance pipe goes against theory and reason, isn’t supported by the pro racers or exhaust tuners, or design engineers, but you claim 25 cheap hp. Maybe you have discovered something they have all missed. Get a patent and sell it. Quick.
Reduce exhaust restriction and gain power. Headers getting a +25 I can believe, but this tube? Well, no. But I don’t have a Tornado on my car either.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0307vet_xpipe/
http://www.performanceexhaust.com/moreinfo.html
I do like your FE, Though.
Hockeysnake
Viper Owner
Thank you all for the input. Chuck Tator took care of the dilemma for me, and made a new, loyal customer in the process. I was definitely in the right place at the right time.
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