Ahhhhh, I failed Emissions....

[ChicagoGTS]

Dammit, I was working on my car today repairing that shattered power steering bracket I had last week and after I got my belt back on and after visual inspection I started the car to make sure the belt was seated properly so I figured I'll leave the airbox off just in case I need to reach down and adjust anything. Talk about bonehead, idiot, dumba$$ moves right before going to emissions. Well, of course the car immediately throws a code because the air temp sensor isn't plugged in. So I figured that's OK I'll just clear the code and all should be well, Wrong! To make a long story short I found out the hard way that erasing a code is like reseting the PCM deleting all diagnostic data (at least with the unit I used). I'm not as upset about having to do it again in a week as I am in knowing that my carfax is now going to show a failed emission test on it should I ever decide to sell it. Go ahead blast away!

~Matt~

 

[Tiepilot]

Re: If I don\'t currently have a CEL, is it likely I will pass emmissions? <EOM>

Hmmm...

You must be registered for see images

 

[ViperRichRT10]

Matt,

We all make mistakes! That is like putting your boat in the water without first putting the drain plug in! Anyone with a boat ever do that??? Do you normally pass emissions with your Roe SC? I was thinking of getting one but was concerned about passing emissions. Do you have sims on? Just curious...

Rich

 

[ChicagoGTS]

Matt,

We all make mistakes! That is like putting your boat in the water without first putting the drain plug in! Anyone with a boat ever do that??? Do you normally pass emissions with your Roe SC? I was thinking of getting one but was concerned about passing emissions. Do you have sims on? Just curious...

Rich

This was my first test, and had I not reset the PCM the emissions guy said I would have been fine. He then said "just come back next week, you'll be OK". So take that for what it's worth, post 96' model cars only get ODBII scanned, no more exhaust wand.

~Matt~

 

[Bandit3]

A "drive cycle" must be performed. This is nothing more than driving your car a certain speed and distance as per the mfgr. I own an inspection station here in Ga-- we go through this all the time. Some vehicles need only a short drive--2-3 miles. We have had a couple that needed to go over a thousand miles. I have no info on the drive cycle for the Viper, check with Wizard, he probably will know. Even disconnecting the battery will not allow a vehicle to immediately pass emissions. Good luck, John If you do find the cycle specs for the Vipers, please inform me--I have a customer with a similar problem. Thanks

 

[ViperRichRT10]

I sure would be curious to know how it works when you go back. If you remember, please let me know. Send me a PM.

Thanks, Rich

 

[cayenne]

Must be a ***** to live where they do tests like that...

On a serious note, it is actually a little disturbing that somewhere (Chicago?) that they are not actually measuring the exhaust coming out...but, are hooking into the car's computer??? I've been hearing more and more about the 'black box' capabilities of cars, and this data being used against people in accidents. Not to get the tin foil hat out yet...but, is a little disturbing to know you have a little 'Big Brother' watching over you.
I'm wanting to start to look into these matters...and try to learn how to 'hack' into them...as far as I know now..there aren't any laws 'yet' that prohibit you from messing around with any computer chips or recorders (like for airbag deployment) in your privately owned personal car.
But, the inspectors scanning your ODBII is a first for me to hear...and a bit disturbing.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

The reason OBD is called that is it's short for On-Board Diagnostics. The EPA decided that cars had to be smart enough to tell drivers when the emissions system wasn't working (or when the emissions system self-diagnosis wasn't working.) Technically, that would seem a reasonable exchange - instead of sniffing the tailpipe, check to see if the emissions system is happy. And short of having a computer at every gas station, having a central system was next best. This procedure starts in the fall in New York.

Separately, there is now a black box feature that records things originally intended for triggering the airbags. Then technology made it simple to also record 5 secs before impact. Now it's an issue about whether consumers have to be informed of this feature (California I believe makes dealers do so) and then who owns the data. Someone was convicted because their "black box" showed a vehicle speed of over 100 MPH seconds before impact. This black box feature doesn't matter where you live. I'm sure there will be a business case made for both :
1) an On-Star type system that automatically radios this information right after the incident, collecting data and letting the lawyers figure out who gets it or who can use it, and
2) a self-destruct feature that after the airbag blows, the black box blows.

 

[Joseph Dell]

I have a similar emmissions issue. not b/c i have a code, but b/c i replaced the battery right before the emissions test. and it isn't a sniff test... just an OBDII. So i've put like 400 miles on the car but the evap sensor and the O2 heater are still "not ready". I really with I knew what I had to do to make it ready b/c i'm driving around w/ an expired tag. doh!

JD

 

[ChicagoGTS]

I have a similar emmissions issue. not b/c i have a code, but b/c i replaced the battery right before the emissions test. and it isn't a sniff test... just an OBDII. So i've put like 400 miles on the car but the evap sensor and the O2 heater are still "not ready". I really with I knew what I had to do to make it ready b/c i'm driving around w/ an expired tag. doh!

JD

Ditto on tag!

 

[GTS Dean]

Separately, there is now a black box feature that records things originally intended for triggering the airbags. Then technology made it simple to also record 5 secs before impact. Now it's an issue about whether consumers have to be informed of this feature (California I believe makes dealers do so) and then who owns the data. Someone was convicted because their "black box" showed a vehicle speed of over 100 MPH seconds before impact. This black box feature doesn't matter where you live. I'm sure there will be a business case made for both :
1) an On-Star type system that automatically radios this information right after the incident, collecting data and letting the lawyers figure out who gets it or who can use it, and
2) a self-destruct feature that after the airbag blows, the black box blows.

AutoWeek did an article on this issue 1 or 2 weeks ago. Pretty good reading.

 

[cayenne]

Hmm...I find this a disturbing trend. I wonder what the specific laws are concernting ODBII and such. I mean, you do buy the car...so, you own the hardware, are they prohibiting you from modding it in ANY way you prefer? Are you obliged to not tinker with the onboard computer...? Pretty soon, will it be mandatory to have something more intrusive, say an OnStar type thing in all cars, that can radio in to give speed information for automatic ticketing? Won't the insurance companies all like this?

So far, I've been lucky enough to live in states that don't require emissions tests (heck, some of them don't even have any type of inspections required)....but, this looks to be a slow start of more monitoring.

I'm gonna start researching into this...but, does anyone out there have some insight into this? I mean, at what point can the gov. tell you not to mod your own purchased 'hardware' and software?

 

[Ulysses]

Pretty soon, will it be mandatory to have something more intrusive, say an OnStar type thing in all cars, that can radio in to give speed information for automatic ticketing?

OT but wait until we get those speeding radar/cameras on the highways just like Europe.

 

[tarfungo]

Well, I could be wrong here as I am not an attorney, but it is my understanding the cars we drive - any car – does not ACTUALLY belong to the person who’s name is on the title. Your title indicates that you are responsible for the same, but if you read the fine print the title says that the state is the actual owner. See…

http://iresist.com/cbg/Car.html

“Do You Know Who Owns Your Car?

On February 10, 1987, Tennessee Department of Revenue Operations Supervisor Denise Rottero told Judge Geer how Tennessee's auto registration works.

The process begins with the "surrender" of the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) by the auto dealer to the Department of Revenue in exchange for Certificate of Title. Asked if a MSO is proof of ownership -Legal title -to the automobile. Ms. Rottero said, "Yes"

"Are you telling me that the ownership of an automobile is NOT title; it's merely evidence that title exists. Your car's legal TITLE is the MSO, which the dealer surrendered to the state. Ms. Rottero said the MSO is put on microfilm for permanent keeping, the original destroyed.

After the trial, spectators expressed shock that their personal automobiles were actually owned by the state. "No wonder state law officers stop people for no reason!" said a housewife. "If your car's got a Tennessee plate, it's theirs, and they can do anything they like to you." That's the law, but it's voluntary, No one but Judge Greer has dared say that if you don't surrender your car to the state in exchange for plates, you go to jail.

Ed. Note : This is true not only for Tennessee, but for the other 49 states as well. When purchasing a new automobile, the buyer is required to sign fine print, which authorized the dealer to obtain plates and registration for the vehicle. Purchaser need only to read this fine print to see that by doing this they are authorizing the dealer to act a power of attorney, and by doing so the prospective buyer is signing away his rights to that vehicle. When buying a used vehicle, the title already has been signed over to the state.

-From The Investigative Reporter, October 1996”

..and there are other URL’s out there with similar information …

If this were in fact the case, it would suggest that the state or Federal government could demand that ANY monitoring device they choose be implemented and installed in your vehicle.

 

[luc]

Tarfungo:

Look on your certificate of title, there is a line that say: Registered OWNER.

Luc.00GTS