Alum radiator needed

[cratica]

I noticed a drop of antifreeze on the floor and investigated to find a lead somewhere around the lower drivers side of the radiator, just above the drain plug. I was already planning on replacing it with an alum radiator this fall so now will just do it a bit earlier than planned. My car is a 97 GTS.

So... yes, I have searched and read so many posts about the saga of the alum radiators for these cars. What I have learned is that there really isn't a good choice it seems. I won't buy a Ron Davis because of all the issues I've read here. I don't want to even risk it since removing/installing a radiator isn't on the top of my fun list and a radiator should *never* go out with a leak new. I prefer not to buy a Fluidyne because of the fan replacement and cost.

I would buy Allen's if there were any left.

How about Roe's $600 unit? Any thoughts from users of this radiator?

Thanks much!

 

[dave6666]

I would buy Allen's if there were any left.

How about Roe's $600 unit? Any thoughts from users of this radiator?

You can thank me for there not being any Alan's left.

My Roe lasted a few months before leaking in the upper corner near the inlet. I sent it back under warranty and it was repaired with epoxy. It failed again almost immediately. I'm debating when I take it back out if I should put my new Alan's in or a custom 3-core copper I had made. I love choices. When I bought the Roe I talked to Sean about it and just like all of his products I had confidence that he was selling a good product. Obviously it has not met that expectation but I still have the confidence in Sean to buy his next product. I cannot unfortunately recommend this one based on my experience.

People have accused my car of being the radiator eating devil car. Then why the factory radiator still good after 9 years?

Technical advise from Dan Lesser of VSP shows an inherent defect in the design/construction of every aluminum radiator except the Howe.

I would either get a stock one from Mopar or a Howe who made the Alan's.

 

[AndyMac]

I've also been contemplating this lately as well. I don't have any leaks, but the core looks like it may be getting soft. I figured I would just get it reworked to a 3 core. What was the cost of recoring vs new aluminum rad?

As a side note, I have had zero heating issues with my stock cooling system and 3" front mount intercooler, but live in a much cooler climate than yours.

Cheers,

 

[99 R/T 10]

Griffin Radiator 4" New, never used - ViperClub Classifieds

 

[cratica]

You can thank me for there not being any Alan's left.

My Roe lasted a few months before leaking in the upper corner near the inlet. I sent it back under warranty and it was repaired with epoxy. It failed again almost immediately. I'm debating when I take it back out if I should put my new Alan's in or a custom 3-core copper I had made. I love choices. When I bought the Roe I talked to Sean about it and just like all of his products I had confidence that he was selling a good product. Obviously it has not met that expectation but I still have the confidence in Sean to buy his next product. I cannot unfortunately recommend this one based on my experience.

People have accused my car of being the radiator eating devil car. Then why the factory radiator still good after 9 years?

Technical advise from Dan Lesser of VSP shows an inherent defect in the design/construction of every aluminum radiator except the Howe.

I would either get a stock one from Mopar or a Howe who made the Alan's.

Yes, but where to find a Howe? (besides the nearest downtown streetcorner)

 

[dave6666]

howeracing dot com

Does Leslie still hang out on the drag?

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[cratica]

I haven't seen Leslie in years. He used to hang out where I would go for lunch at the Taco place off Mopac near the park.

As for Howe, I called them and they pointed me to snake oil products as the distributor for that radiator, but they want $800 not the $540 listed on Howes website. So, I will pass. I'll either get Roe's or rebuild mine or buy a new old stock.

 

[gb66gth]

howeracing dot com

Does Leslie still hang out on the drag?

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MY EYES!!!!!!!!!
I'm bliiiiind!!!

 

[cratica]

I went with the Roe triple pass radiator. They said the bugs are worked out of it from their original design and I trust Sean so I will give it a go. I'll install it Friday.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Technical advise from Dan Lesser of VSP shows an inherent defect in the design/construction of every aluminum radiator except the Howe.

Also, OEM radiators mostly ALL have this defect taken care of, or are used in situations where the problem is minimized anyway.

 

[dave6666]

I went with the Roe triple pass radiator. They said the bugs are worked out of it from their original design and I trust Sean so I will give it a go. I'll install it Friday.

This is a fine opportunity for them to make good on what is apparently my early POS so I will ****.





Vendor that admit defects should correct their mistakes.

 

[dave6666]

Here's my welcome mat every morning now. Add 1/2 gallon of coolant and motor off LOL.

C'mon Sean... You've just been busted admitting you had a questionable product. I respectfully await a reply.

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[cratica]

Also, OEM radiators mostly ALL have this defect taken care of, or are used in situations where the problem is minimized anyway.

What is this "inherent design flaw"?

 

[WRD97GTS]

FLUIDYNE - contact Gary Johnson, Owner
FLUIDYNE High Performance

Fluidyne High Performance
Manufacturer's Part Number : FHP30-98VI
Radiator Style : Crossflow
Overall Width (in)29.500 in.
Overall Height (in)15.118 in.
Overall Thickness (in)3.500 in.
Row Quantity : Three-rowRadiator
Finish : Natural
Radiator Material : Aluminum
Core Height (in) 17.440 in.
Core Thickness (in) 3.150 in.
Core Width (in) 25.000 in.
Tube Size : 1 in.

FLUIDYNE offers pre-1998 Alum radiators; this unit for 1999 thru 2002 can be easily modified to fit
I sent him an O.E. radiator with upper and lower hoses from a 2000 RT/10 for applications of 1999-2002.

Installed FLUIDYNE unit ( a few minor modifications to fit into 2000 RT/10)
and yes, the air cleaner lower box does contact radiator; however there is a replacement
panel being designed as a fitment for air cleaner box. Yet, if a 6 inch long "slot " is cut in the
plastic box and formed inward, then covered with duct tape until new design is produced,

Excellent workmanship on the Alum Radiator.
Gary will reply to questions as to how FLUIDYNE design is an improvement of the O.E. radiator.

Tested in bumper to bumper traffic and high speed highway driving at 5,500 rpm.

 

[Viper Specialty]

What is this "inherent design flaw"?

Look up: Coefficient of thermal expansion.

Aluminum radiators are long tubes encased inside of a rigid channel system which will not heat at the same rate as the tubes.

Now, what do you think will happen when those core tubes get hot, and the channels do not?

Yes, they expand. They get longer. They press into the end tanks- which are secured to the rigid channels- and flex the core back and forth at the ends.

Now, what do you think will happen when you do this thousands of times?

That's right. The tubes will begin to fracture at the weld to the end tank, starting from the point of highest stress: the top radiator hose.

The copper cored radiators are immune as they have a lower expansion rate, better thermal conductivity, and stronger material. The Alan's radiator seems to be immune due to more consistent heating and cooling. [probably just by chance] and OEM's have already figured out the solution... as have I.



Since I had already planned to bring it to market, I suppose I can let the cat out of the bag now. It will cost a little more... but you will only have to install it- ONCE!

 

[WRD97GTS]

Look up: Coefficient of thermal expansion.

Aluminum radiators are long tubes encased inside of a rigid channel system which will not heat at the same rate as the tubes.

Now, what do you think will happen when those core tubes get hot, and the channels do not?

Yes, they expand. They get longer. They press into the end tanks- which are secured to the rigid channels- and flex the core back and forth at the ends.

Now, what do you think will happen when you do this thousands of times?

That's right. The tubes will begin to fracture at the weld to the end tank, starting from the point of highest stress: the top radiator hose.

The copper cored radiators are immune as they have a lower expansion rate, better thermal conductivity, and stronger material. The Alan's radiator seems to be immune due to more consistent heating and cooling. [probably just by chance] and OEM's have already figured out the solution... as have I.


Gee ****... I am not even in radiator manufacturing... why am I figuring this out? Do I need to make one and kick everyone else out of the market?

Mechanical and Chemical Engineers have formulated the proper alloys that control the rate of expansion and metal fatigue. This material is costly.

If aftermarket radiator manufacturers do not invest in the quality alloys then they deserve any and all negative feed back due to failure!

however do not catagorize ALL Alum Radiators as "inferior " to copper/brass construction.

 

[dave6666]

Just to relive a previous moment, and to shed light on what Dan just said...

Yeah, said previous moment(s) being, I said I had many choices of radiators - see pic, custom 3-core copper and new Alan's - and the fact that with those choices I just the other day decided to peek in the box to check out the Alan's I got from Howe a while back. I mean, what's the excitement when you get new or repaired radiators all the time LOL.

Anyway, I've seen my share of aluminum radiators for the Gen 2 and the Howe is different. Look at the second pic - peekin' in that box! - and compare the design in the inlet area to the others.

I look forward to reporting back on it. I feel warm and fuzzy. It looks different than the rest. Dan says it wins where others don't. I trust Dan in that.

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[Viper Specialty]

Mechanical and Chemical Engineers have formulated the proper alloys that control the rate of expansion and metal fatigue. This material is costly.

If aftermarket radiator manufacturers do not invest in the quality alloys then they deserve any and all negative feed back due to failure!

however do not catagorize ALL Alum Radiators as "inferior " to copper/brass construction.

Dont put words in my mouth please, I never said they were inferior- in fact, I never said anything of the sort, and I dont even have that opinion. However, what I posted with regard to Copper radiators is indeed correct. In fact, the OEM aluminum radiators are fantastic. When was the last time you heard about a radiator failure in an SRT?

If you happen to be an engineer, then you should understand that while the proper materials *could* solve the issue at a substantial cost, there is a simple engineering change that can be made, at almost NO cost. You would not have to change materials away from the norm, would not change material processing, and would solve the issue just as easily. Exotic materials often have their downsides- other than costs.

 

[dave6666]

Mechanical and Chemical Engineers have formulated the proper alloys that control the rate of expansion and metal fatigue. This material is costly.

If aftermarket radiator manufacturers do not invest in the quality alloys then they deserve any and all negative feed back due to failure!

however do not catagorize ALL Alum Radiators as "inferior " to copper/brass construction.

Dave = 29 years in Chemical Engineering... WHASSUP???

Point... I was watching a NASCAR tech show earlier this year and they were chatting radiators. Now I imagine the radiator in a Cup car is bigger than a Viper, but not 20 times bigger.

Why the number 20?

Well, because that's how many more times a Cup car radiator costs. Yup, $12 to $14K.

TWELVE to FOURTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Ya think that includes the better alloys? Ya think the $600 units don't?

Sssup.

 

[cratica]

In fact, the OEM aluminum radiators are fantastic. When was the last time you heard about a radiator failure in an SRT?

.

Interesting point. Question, will a SRT radiator fit a GTS? Can it be retrofitted? Anyone attempted this?

 

[cratica]

Dave.... we get it.... You have a *fetish* for radiators...

 

[Viper Specialty]

Interesting point. Question, will a SRT radiator fit a GTS? Can it be retrofitted? Anyone attempted this?

Sorry, completely different fitment and design.

 

[WRD97GTS]

Interesting point. Question, will a SRT radiator fit a GTS? Can it be retrofitted? Anyone attempted this?

will a NASCAR Cup Radiator fit into a Viper?
has anyone attempted this?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dave.... we get it.... You have a *fetish* for radiators...

I heard Dave has slept with a Howe a few times

 

[cratica]

Sounds like either some sort of internal "bumper" system needs to be engineered or more clearance between expanding parts or just one heck of a strong weld on the upper intake neck should do the trick?

 

[cratica]

Ok, so Dave has a fetish for Howe's and radiators... or is it just Howe's radiator? I'm confused...

 

[dave6666]

Dave.... we get it.... You have a *fetish* for radiators...

People in Chemical Engineering like to mess with stuff that transfers heat. It does not need to be broken to instigate that

 

[dave6666]

Please post a pic of a Howe and I'll decide whether or not I want to roost with it.

 

[dave6666]

I also have a pic fetish. And seeing as Bird325 is trolling this thread, and we did a dyno day Sunday, here's a pic of his car and mine together.

Like the puddle under mine?

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[jay01m]

will a NASCAR Cup Radiator fit into a Viper?
has anyone attempted this?

Not a chance. Those radiators range from 3.5 inches to 5 or more inches thick, depending on which track they are on and how fast they plan on going, and have big tanks on the sides with multiple inlets and outlets for God only knows what. Not sure why anyone would bother anyways, it strikes me as overkill, especially if it's true what Dave says about the prices.

Here's my post on radiator options from last year...
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/630586-radiators-latest-greatest-2.html

My vote is for rebuilding the stock radiator and making it triple core. Did that with mine for just over $500, looks brand new and no leaks. Expect it to last another 10 years.

Just my $.02.