Maybe these things are so obvious to you because you chose to rely on GM's assurances instead of doing some math and reality check yourself? Check the Hennessey stunt if you really think new Corvette has superior aerodynamics, and this is the narrower car, with less air resistance than the wider Z06. with ground effects and more rolling resistance and air lift from wider tires. If anything, the new Z06 is the best reason to buy a Viper, unless one does not mind driving an automatic to at least have a few claimed figures become a reality. Should be interesting to see how much higher the stall speed is going to be on Z06 to compensate for extra weight. LOL
AMAZING PRICES on new Gen V
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Maybe these things are so obvious to you because you chose to rely on GM's assurances instead of doing some math and reality check yourself? Check the Hennessey stunt if you really think new Corvette has superior aerodynamics, and this is the narrower car, with less air resistance than the wider Z06. with ground effects and more rolling resistance and air lift from wider tires. If anything, the new Z06 is the best reason to buy a Viper, unless one does not mind driving an automatic to at least have a few claimed figures become a reality. Should be interesting to see how much higher the stall speed is going to be on Z06 to compensate for extra weight. LOL
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
I was under the impression that the discounted price quoted did not include the gas guzzler tax and freight that is included in the $120k all in price. When those are added in the actual savings were much less. Have any members actually bought one for less than $115k all in, plus sales tax, or is the $112k advertised price untested. I've heard of low prices been advertised, and additional charges added once you try to buy it.
BlueLIGHTNING
Viper Owner
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http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2016-mercedes-benz-gt-amg-rendered-detailed-news
My next viper!! Car and driver this month has a beautiful red one and love the way the car looks with wheels fitting snug.
My next viper!! Car and driver this month has a beautiful red one and love the way the car looks with wheels fitting snug.
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the Chief Engineer, preliminary tests, and conservative estimates which already eclipse the C6 ZR1. How much better it performs we'll have to see. Yeah there is some hype in a new car, no doubt, but the preliminary results and new technology (direct injection, newer blower & 8speed auto, etc.) and advanced aerodynamics (CC brakes from ZR1, Gurney flap, etc.) would dictate to me this new generation of Z06 will out perform the ZR1 as claimed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPj3M5lf74s&feature=player_detailpage#t=109
I had estimated the base cost to be 85-90k (and there are estimates all over the place). It will be priced very competitively against the SRT as sentiments would seem to indicate (lol)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHnT7nD7X-I&feature=player_detailpage#t=552
OK, now back to the Viper. I love the Viper styling and quality, whereas I am repulsed by certain aspects of the C7 styling (particularly the rear end), so the Viper or Viper Vert if there should be a GEN V Vert may be my next car. Both cars are admittedly beyond my driving capabilities so fastest among the ZR1, Viper, or C7 Z06 would not be a deciding factor. I feel passionate about the Viper, though I have yet to drive one (could not get into the DriveSRT demo).
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Man, can MB be any more conspicuous about putting a 911 style rear end on it!
It used to be others copied the MB style.Yup, Juechter, the same guy who claimed comparable performance for new C7 vs. C6 Z06. I would certainly rely on his assurances, LMAO. If you run into that genius, you may want to ask him about the Nurburgring lap time for the new Corvette and its top speed. Apparently Tadge must be having a memory lapse on both accounts.
I would be more concerned with the questionable technologies in the new Corvette than its garish appearance or rattle can paint quality or body panels not fitting correctly. The bottom line here is that even the cheapest Viper will be still a better choice than the most expensive Corvette. You are getting a great deal on a great car instead of buying a cheap car at expected lower price.
Yup, Juechter, the same guy who claimed comparable performance for new C7 vs. C6 Z06. I would certainly rely on his assurances, LMAO. If you run into that genius, you may want to ask him about the Nurburgring lap time for the new Corvette and its top speed. Apparently Tadge must be having a memory lapse on both accounts.
I would be more concerned with the questionable technologies in the new Corvette than its garish appearance or rattle can paint quality or body panels not fitting correctly. The bottom line here is that even the cheapest Viper will be still a better choice than the most expensive Corvette. You are getting a great deal on a great car instead of buying a cheap car at expected lower price.
Well we both agree on the Viper as our preference, now watch the 2nd video and Tadge explains the Nurburgring wet track scenario. Suffice to say, I believe him & you don't!
That is a good thing then
Oh and I believe Tadge as much as I believe Obama. Cars are not a matter of belief, they are matter of science, laws of physics and hard facts, none of which go along with Juechter's claims. Nevertheless, believe what you like, Viper being a better car is a fact.That is a good thing then
The area of contention was the C7 Z06 out performing the previous generation ZR1, not whether the Viper is a better car.
I'm not going to question the veracity Chief Engineer Tadge Jeuchter at this point as he is intimately and thoroughly knowledgeable about both Corvettes, and his assertions will likely be validated at the time of certification, of the C7 Z06. Let's wait and see the, "laws of physics and hard facts" as you say, take place. In the interim let's talk what we both love, Vipers!
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The area of contention was the C7 Z06 out performing the previous generation ZR1, not whether the Viper is a better car.
I'm not going to question the veracity Chief Engineer Tadge Jeuchter at this point as he is intimately and thoroughly knowledgeable about both Corvettes, and his assertions will likely be validated at the time of certification, of the C7 Z06. Let's wait and see the, "laws of physics and hard facts" as you say, take place. In the interim let's talk what we both love, Vipers!
Well, why don't you question his "veracity" and more importantly so, his credibility? How is that extra power from ethanol working out in the new Corvette and handling in the middle of winter with summer tires?
Nevertheless, let us enjoy talking about Vipers since it is a Viper forum
FinalEd357
Viper Owner
Looking forward to seeing many more Gen 5s at our MCVO driving events this year. There were 3 at our Sept Wine Tour in Northern Michigan and I suspect (with recent price moves) there will be many more. Our first event is early May brunch - can't wait...
Well, why don't you question his "veracity" and more importantly so, his credibility? How is that extra power from ethanol working out in the new Corvette and handling in the middle of winter with summer tires?
Nevertheless, let us enjoy talking about Vipers since it is a Viper forum
We were talking about the C7Z06 and the C6 ZR1, not the LT1 Stingray! Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think Tadge Juechter has endorsed ethanol for the Stingray. Also the LT4 may share the same architecture with the Stingray's LT1 but there also significant differences, which is why GM utilized the LT4 for the supercharged Z06. What did Tadge Juechter say about the handling of the Stingray's tires that calls into question his veracity?
Having SLIGHT insight into this matter from a buddy of mine who works as a professional test driver and mag edit i would not bet the farm that the new Z06 will not out perm the old ZR-1 (esp with the auto tranny ) Chevy has an almost unlimited budget regarding this car . The cost of this technology is assumulated into the 30k Vetts they sell per year
PS in reference Pro Street test driver Ken Miele won a Viper Nat event in one of my modded Vipers .Last November in 30 deg weather at Atco Miele went 11.3 -11.4 in a new bone stock Vette at only 116-11.7 mph (stock tires )The chasis hooks like crazy as indicated by the low 11 at only 116 .Now add at least 200 hp to that .Without getting myself in trouble that new direct inject Z06 motor has passed durability and driveability testing in the 800 hp range Iam not saying Chevy will release it at that power level but its simply a matter of how fast they want gto spin the blower.
I suggest you do some research on the subject of Tadge Juechter bragging right before release of the new Corvette about the ethanol as the power boosting fuel and Stingray being designed to use it. This way, you do not have to rely on your memory which apparently does not extend that far. And yes, let me correct you, with the exception of using carbon fiber driveshaft (inside of the same steel torque tube, there is absolutely nothing unique about Z06 chassis or any other element of the design. Thus, unlike with the previous generation, this car is going to be heavier than the base version. Now, if you have anything to contradict this, feel free to provide this info. The same Tadge Juechter bragged about light weight frame that resulted in the Corvette being substantially heavier than its "obsolete" predecessor that used steel frame. You are apparently a victim of mass hypnosis and marketing if you cannot understand these parts. Yes, Juechter will sprinkle some magic dust on the new Z06 and make it all different, LOL... Oh and Tadge "forgot" to mention that claimed handling can be achieved under optimum ambient temperature, it ***** when these tires start cracking when freezing temps are around and compound refuses to stay soft. Nevertheless, you can just carry on BELIEVING what you like to hear. I think you would be better off discussing the Viper though.
maybe with some magic dust sprinkled on the new car? No doubt auto will be faster than the manual just like with the base Stingray since there is no way to raise the stall speed on the manual. LOL at Chevy budget on Corvette, I hope you honestly do not believe that part? Have you looked at Corvette idea of VVT? Majority of Corvette "technology" was developed for GM trucks, including LT1 engine (with smaller displacement though, for now). As I said, good thing I am not holding my breath to wait for the results of ring run or Stingray top speed, they are both missing permanently. And yes, I have no doubt that while Hennessey needed over 700 hp to get to the 200 mph mark, yes, I am sure that aerodynamically inferior new Z06 will top ZR1 205 mph top speed with 625 hp. A little reality check may be a good idea instead of believing in fairies.
How about duplicating these times in a Stingray with manual transmission? Why would you be using drag strip as a place to verify car handling and effect of cold temperatures? I hope you are just joking here, LOL.
somethings up with the chasis though.In Nov 98 VCA pres Joe Houss and i were on hand at E-Town when t the Mopar Perf Mag and Evan Smith set the Stock published GEN 2 record at 11.7 AT 117 .The power to weight ratio of a new stock Vette is equal to a Gen 2 Viper as indicated by the trap speed .The new Vette however is nearly a half second faster ET wise which indicated the chasis is getting the power to the ground much better In my Gen 4 again at E-Town ,Smith set the Gen 4 published record of 11.2 at near 130 .Meile almost equaled his et yet his trap speed (horsepower )was 14 mph slower
Its the ability to get the power to the ground When 2 cas are the identical horsepower yet their et at the drag strip are 4 tenths difference that says something for chasis developmentThe air temp influenced trap speed not et hence both cars trapping 117 (same weight are making the same power )
Torque tube makes the drivetrain more efficient, this is a given. The ET number is a result of increased stall speed and stickier tires, this is actually a given too. Again, try this with a Corvette with manual transmission. I suggest you look at the initial test in the magazines, they were all using Z51 with manual and none could duplicate the specs GM claimed. Improved magnetic suspension and stickier tires are responsible for better lateral acceleration, if you look at the test videos, you will see the amount of body roll and lift the new Corvette has, you will not see it with any of the Vipers or even with the previous Corvette, with Z51 suspension.
As I said, torque tube increases drive train efficiency and chassis rigidity and auto takes the launching skill out of equation, not to mention the new eLSD and better tire compound. I hope you do not honestly expect the same hook up ability from a Gen 2 car vs. latest Corvette with auto. Try to find someone with the new Stingray with manual tranny to even up the odds. Also, even if you think you have the same torque and hp, this does not mean their curves are the same, me think...
Also, even if you think you have the same torque and hp, this does not mean their curves are the same, me think...I MAY be privy to the prototype numbers of the manny and auto trans at different hp ratings (GM has not finalized hp yet ) i will go back to my initial statement -dont bet the farm that the new Z06 will not out perform the ZR-1 esp with the auto tranny )
I'll be happy to place that bet actually. If you consider that the car will be superior because only the numbers that are better will be released while the inferior ones will be withheld, then yes, by all means you can claim the new Z06 superiority, LOL. And as I said, there is no surprise that a PORTION of specs may be superior due to auto tranny but in the end, this is just a sad testimony to the new Corvette's failure overall. I do not mind though, the worse the Stingray looks, the better the Viper looks and so far, in the raw performance and true to the no compromise sports car principle, the new Viper is already leaps and bounds ahead of any current or upcoming version of Stingray.
PeterMJ, I know you can't let go, you've moved the ball so many times from your orignal contention that there is no way the C7Z06 can beat the C6ZR1, and turned it into a question of Tadge Jeuchter's credibility, tires, ethanol, Nurburgring, etc. What's next?
Let's move on to the Vipers, and if by some chance you're right about the the C7Z06 vs C6ZR1 debate I'll publicly let you tell me "I told you so"!
Go ahead and continue the debate as you probably will, but maybe go to the C7Z06 forum!
Let's move on to the Vipers, and if by some chance you're right about the the C7Z06 vs C6ZR1 debate I'll publicly let you tell me "I told you so"!
Go ahead and continue the debate as you probably will, but maybe go to the C7Z06 forum!
When you proclaim how great the upcoming Z06 will be, it is my civic duty to point out a few things. And on the contrary, I let go long time ago. If you rely on Tadge's assurances to predict the outcome of Z06, it is only fair to point out certain things about the man behind it and his current "accomplishments", ESPECIALLY ON VIPER FORUM. After all, any creation is only as good as its creator. I think you fit considerably better on Corvette forum, due to your conviction to the cause, LOL. I do owe Tadge big thanks however, he fully convinced me that my fourth in a row Corvette should be the very last one.PeterMJ, I know you can't let go, you've moved the ball so many times from your orignal contention that there is no way the C7Z06 can beat the C6ZR1, and turned it into a question of Tadge Jeuchter's credibility, tires, ethanol, Nurburgring, etc. What's next?
Let's move on to the Vipers, and if by some chance you're right about the the C7Z06 vs C6ZR1 debate I'll publicly let you tell me "I told you so"!
Go ahead and continue the debate as you probably will, but maybe go to the C7Z06 forum!
BTW, anything I stated can be easily verified, if you think I provided incorrect facts, feel free to correct them. It is not my fault that Tadge feeds the general public with so much BS.
This is more BS from Corvette team. I do not know the details of the original ZR1 test they use for comparison or the specifics on this "mule". ZR1 went through changes in tires and suspension during its life cycle. Check the Nurburgring times changing for ZR1 over its life cycle. Typicall BS from Juechter to get the hype going. Juechter made many claims that either disappeared or were proven wrong or partial at best, lack of credibility for sure. LOL at this article and that carbon fiber torque tube. Am I supposed to think that both the housing and the shaft are carbon fiber or just the shaft? What about vibrations caused by the AFM if housing is CF as well? Not any different than light weight frame."The upcoming Z06 will never ever outperform the ZR1, it will be lucky to outperform the last Z06." Your statement, and the C7Z06 already out performed the ZR1 by beating it's track record at Milford! You've been corrected!
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Ill Agree with Peter here - which year ZR1 and what tires?
No doubt the Z06 will be fast. I may look at an auto one myself.
No doubt the Z06 will be fast. I may look at an auto one myself.
1badgts- go checkout dragtimes.com i ran my stock 2002 rt/10 at cecil county dragway posting 11.47. you can also see the timeslip in
my gallery. sorry to be off OP, wanted to clear this up.
wanted
The reference i made was a PUBLISHED TIME MAGAZ TEST DRIVER not a civilian
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