Andy's rules posted for comment.

Andy

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Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

My proposed rules for the new bbs. Feel free to comment, correct, rewrite, etc.

1. This board is read by lots of different people. Anything not acceptable on network TV will be deleted.
2. Anything racist, threatening, or derogatory to any ethnicity or orientation will be deleted.
3. Personal assaults and threats will not be tolerated.
4. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or bystanders must be substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.
5. We will do our best to not over moderate. If things get heated, we will attempt to lock a thread before deleting it.
6. If any one moderator participates as a user in an exchange, they will not participate in the moderation of that exchange
 

Snake Bitten

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hotwax:
If the violation is so blatant (cause must be provided), then the Board should have the right to skip steps and revoke posting privileges immediately.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too subjective...keep it objective...with the three strikes rule...
 
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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hotwax:
Scenario...Someone threatens to kill someone else or harm their family. Forget the three strikes Jack, you're out!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I totally agree. Three strikes rule!!

Rules sound great to me Andy. For what my thought counts.
 

CitySnake

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

Gentlemen:

Assuming this topic is as important as it seems, don't you think it more appropriate to post it in a location/section where it might receive more than 63 views and 7 posts in 2 days
dunno.gif
(requests for tire polishing advice receive more notice and activity). Frankly, it is rather irresponsible to leave it here.

Please move and place it where it can do some good for everyone.
 

Jay Herbert

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

It is so important (and we want to get as many involved as possible), that we are looking at if we can make it the only topic, in the only forum, of a completely new BBS
smile.gif
 
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Andy

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

I really do believe this will only work if we let everyone participate. Since I haven't been completely successful getting some of these guys access, SmokinV10 emailed me his comments so I could post them.

Andy Below are my comments and suggestions for the rules. Please post them in the Site suggstions area.

1. This board is read by lots of different people. Anything not acceptable on network TV will be deleted.

Comment- I believe this is neither too vague or too specific. Rather this rule should be left alone. Since this will alow the usage of words currently not allowed such as a s s and d a m n but does prohibit the use of some foul language that may not be appropriate for this site its wording is sufficient to cover language. Also this allows the posting of pictures such as some basic swimsuits that can be viewed on shows such as baywatch, etc. This should put the current controversy of swimsuits to rest. It also tempers the idea of the possiblity of ****** or *********** showing up on this site. With the "network TV" disclaimer/rule, this will not be allowed to happen.

2. Anything racist, threatening, or derogatory to any ethnicity or orientation will be deleted.

Good

3. Personal assaults and threats will not be tolerated.

Good.

4. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or bystanders must be substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.

This is good. Incidents with the unfortunate outcome of the infamous $9 thread would have been avoided with such a rule in place.

5. We will do our best to not over moderate. If things get heated, we will attempt to lock a thread before deleting it.

This is too vague. The use of the word "heated" may be a reason for a modertator who does not agree with the rules to pull a post. Often the best threads are the "heated ones". Since this part addresses pulling of posts I believe rule 5 should be written as follows:

5) We will do our best to not over moderate. If a post does not meet the posting guidelines it will be deleted or locked with an explanation. In extreme circumstances where personal information of a sensitive nature requires deletion, deletion may occur without explanation. This will be the exception rather than the rule.


6. If any one moderator participates as a user in an exchange, they will not participate in the moderation of that exchange

7. All activities involving the removal of a site member's posting privilidges will involve a 3-strikes policy and will be voted on by the Website Committee (this includes, temporary website banning,cooling off periods, and permanent bannings). In order to ensure that each strike will not be assigned arbitrarily and will be for larger infractions. The website committee must vote (by simple majority) on each strike. The first and second strike will constitute email notifications to the user. The third strike may constitute a suspension at the discretion of the committee. All violations of rule #3 will constitute an automatic 3 strikes. The committee may determine the length of the banning at the 3rd strike. If a consensus is not reached. The committee chairman will decide on any banning length up to one year. Any bannnings of one year or greater will require a final website committee vote of a 4/5's majority. Each strike stays on record for 4 months.

The above structure guarantees that bannings are treated fairly.

8) Website Committee Composition and Power:
The website committee will be composed of the following:
- Chairman VCA officer (does not vote but may cast a deciding vote in the case of a tie).
Two VCA officers.
Two VCA Members (non-vca officers)

The website committee will have sole power in appointing and controling all persons with moderating privilidges. There will be no persons granted modertating privilidges without a 4/5's vote from the committee.

The website committee will have the power to amend changes to the website with a simple majority.

8) There will be ONLY 6 persons granted moderating privilidges. 2 Moderators will be assinged to moderate each area. 2 for OT,and 3 for Gen I/II and SRT sections. These persons will be assinged to moderate these areas only. However during an absense, a moderator from another area may moderate. All moderators must have at least 100 posts in the forum they are moderating. One moderator will have the ability to moderate all sections (as a check).
 
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Andy

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

Here are some comments from Serious Eric.

Serious here. Rules sound like a pretty good basis so far. Here's a suggestion I have re moderation privileges and methodology.

--------------------------------------------------------
 
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Andy

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

I know that the banning thing is the most despised part of the current system. There have been some good suggestions there, and I'm going to throw mine in.

I don't think deleting a post is neccessarily a strike. It can be, but doesn't need to be. I've had posts deleted, and other the other board, back when I was a mod, I deleted some posts made my Steve Fergusen. When he was president. And he deserved it. But neither of us deserved a strike for them, just some moderation.

I also don't really agree with the strike policy. Not that I have final say, or that I don't think people deserve warnings.

I propose:

1: Warnings will be given by moderators. Warnings are not always strikes.

2: If a moderator believes a "strike" is warranted, they will refer it to the Web Committe for a vote. The web commitee will vote, and a majority rules.

3: 2nd Strike that is approved by a majority of the Web Commitee will result in a 1 week suspension of posting access. Each additional Strike will be double the previous suspension period.

The web committe currenly has 4 members, so a majority is 3 of 4. I think that a mod should be able to suspend someone until there is a vote. Maybe a 48hr max there? If there is no vote in 48 hrs, the person is set free by act of god, like when the professor doesn't show up, or the rope snaps in a hanging.

Is anyone besides me reading this? Please, please chime in (if you can, hehe)
 

Joseph Houss

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

Two suggestions:

1)

I believe that the concept of 1st strike = 1 week, 2nd strike = 2 weeks, etc ... should eventually lead to a fixed lockout (trying to avoid the "b" word). My thought is you could have a "Chevy/supra/fill in the blanks" guy, that intentionally, knowing the rules, post **** (etc), so that leaves him out for a week....so he waits, and when he's back in, does it again, then waits...and when he's back again ... etc, etc, etc.

Shouldn't there be an annual suspension (or indefinite) after a certain amount of strikes?

2)

It seems that the best way to have the "vote" work, is to have an odd number of website committee members. This way there would be no "tie" issues.
 

GTS Dean

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

Some good suggestions, some not-so-good.

I'll have to reflect on them before offering further comment.

Signed,
"Lockdown Dean"
 

Janni

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

Couple of comments on the suggestions...

The warning / strike system should NOT be complicated. Strikes are pretty serious - and I agree should be voted on. I truly hope strikes will be a rare occurence. However, blatant or especially vile infractions should have the ability for the poster to lose his / her posting privileges immediately. Third strike should have a determined period for revokation of posting privileges - perhaps it should be different for VCA vs non-VCA??? I mean if a troll comes over and gets three strikes, do we really need to have him / her back? Ever?

While I understand the suggestion about # of posts before a person can moderate, it may be inappropriate. If the rules are clear, the amount a person posts should be irrelevant.

While I agree that moderators should not "overrule" each other, and that everyone with moderating privileges should be known, opening up individuals for certain kinds of abuse is risky - they perhaps should moderate under the "Moderator" ID and all be a cohesive entity. And PLEASE - no - "well, *I* didn't delete it - *I* thought is was funny" It only adds fuel to the fire. If there is a disagreement amongst the moderators on what is acceptable, get a concensus before someone does anything and then STAND BY IT as an entity.

Lastly, make sure that everyone is OK with the fact that rules 2 and 3 both pertain to ****** orientation - not just gender / race / religion, etc...

Thanks for all the work, guys.
 

LTHL-GRY

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

The problem is and will continue to be the arbitrary application of any rules chosen... today for instance threads are being deleted that are in strict conformance to the published rules.... No profanity, no ******, no personal attacks... The posts in question were absolutely factual in content. The problem is and will always be that Jay Herbert will delete anything that questions his arbitrary application of the wand to suit his mood or temperament at any given time. This is not the American way and it should not be the VCA way. REIGN HIM IN BEFORE HE RUINS THE SITE FOR EVERYONE!!!!

Jay does not want his dirty politics of back room deals at other’s expense exposed for the trickery it is. And if you chose not to compromise your integrity and try to force the backstabbing into the light of day, you are summarily banned FOR TELLING THE TRUTH!!!

What good will rules be when we have someone who thinks he is above the rules and that they don’t apply to him???
 

GTS Dean

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

I posted two new topics to OT this morning. One had to do with terror attacks, the other was 100% car-oriented. Both were pulled by outside forces who obviously took NO time to read either one. Both of them had viewers who were posting appropriate responses, but were unable to submit them because the subject was gone.

This was passed off as "a glitch" but was not so. I've been locked out and STILL, nobody has sent me a formal notice of such. Is this right? Is it reasonable? Just because we don't have the new rules, it appears that some of the mods are taking advantage of the completely arbitrary allowances granted under current rules.

Dean Word
VCA member in good standing, but not treated accordingly.
 

GTS Dean

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

OK, I'm reading and thinking. Gonna consider it off-line. Andy and Hotwax are moving in the right direction.
 

LTHL-GRY

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

I will not be satisfied until I get an explanation of why my legitimate, factual, non-rule breaking posts and threads were deleted arbitrarily... without cause or warning.

I am a dues paying Viper owner in good standing without so much as a shouting match to sully my reputation... why would my comments be so easily brushed aside? What I see is a sanitizing action to rid the site from any disenting opinion. How dare anyone question the staus quo?? That my "friends" is not the American way.

Jon Mcguire was banned for refusing an under the table deal with Jay that would have forced him to throw the banned ones under the wheel. When he suggested taking the discussion out in the open, he was banned... explain the justification for that???

If it is the intention of the board lords to run people from this site in hordes... It is working... Look at the board traffic lately, and just as it was begining to look like a truce was being worked out... I am disgusted at the way this has been handled.
 

Steve Ferguson

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Re: Andy\'s rules posted for comment.

The only thing I would change is the three strike policy. I would hope that we never have to ban a member, so that I would extend even further. But I would only tolerate one strike by any non member. Guess that is why they only let me mod the business section. I hate seeing the mods have to work extra for non VCA reasons. Just my sorry *** opinion!

It is nice to see that there may be level ground once again!
 

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