Archer Headers

[Tom Welch]

AZ,

Are these the CDI headers? If so, I recommend that you listen to a car with them first. The sound is "different". In a recent test that we did they made LESS power than our Belangers.

Best of luck in your search,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[BLS]

I'll second what Tom said!!!

We tested my 2001 GTS with Bellenger Headers, no cats and Bellenger catback. Against another 2001 GTS that had the Archer/CDI headers, no cats and the new 3" Corsa Catback.

The test was done on a dynojet and the conditions were almost perfect. The car with the Archer/CDI headers made 415 RWHP on the very same dyno a week earlier (before the Archer/CDI headers were installed). It made this 415 RWHP "bone stock" and with 1100 miles on the odometer. So we know this was a very strong 2001 GTS right from the factory.

After everything we had heard about the Archer/CDI headers... we were all expecting to see at least 10 to 15 more RWHP out of them. But, that was not the case. Not only did the car sound like a very angry farm tractor... it made less RWHP than my car did with the Bellenger system installed.

Look for a complete write up including pictures and dyno sheet scans shortly. Or, give Tom Welch or Larry Macedo of Performance Motorsports a call. They were both there and they can give you all the details.

Larry Macedo
Performance Motorsports
http://www.performancemotorsportsllc.com
[email protected] - Email
(407) 366-0366 - Office

Tom Welch
BTR VIPER Performance
http://www.btrviper.com
[email protected] - Email
(352) 622-6219 - Office

Now this is just my opinion. And I know that I am entittled to this opinion... because the last time I checked, I was still living in Amercia (not Russia) and the Constitution and Bill of Rights (including the 1st Amendment) were still in effect. So, saying that... I was also seriously considering purchasing the Archer/CDI headers and I cannot tell you how glad I am that I didn't.

I don't know any other way to say it... so, I am just gonna say it.

THEY SOUND LIKE **** !

I mean they really sound bad. So, bad that even if they did make more RWHP (and they do not... and I have the dyno sheets to prove it). I wouldn't have them on my car.

So, since they cost more (a lot more). Make less RWHP and sound terrible. I would recommend that you continue your search.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Dan Cragin did an evaluation of the CDI and Balenger and the CDI won. The engine was modified a little. The cat back is made by Bondio fab. Has high flow cats and TNT tunable mufflers, car sounds good to me. Wayne from APEX has done the same evaluation on a stock 2001 and the peak HP numbers to be the same. He commented that the CDI HP curve was smoother. Perhaps he will post the data if he reads this topic.

 

[AZVIPERS]

Has anyone had the Archer headers (V-arheaders Jet Hot) installed? If so what are your thoughts. I am going to have the headers and catback installed next week and want to make sure these are a good choice. Also, how much HP can I expect to gain doing both?

 

[BLS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
The engine was modified a little.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I called CDI during my quest to find the perfect set of headers for my car. They told me that their headers made 10 more RWHP on an engine dyno than the Bellenger headers did. They also said the engine they tested the headers on had their heads on it and in order to get the extra 10 RWHP, you needed their heads.

Well, last time I checked the CDI heads cost about $7500.00+. So, maybe you should tell us exactly what you mean when you say "the engine was modified a little"??? Because that sounds like a lot to me.

And, since everybody quotes RWHP on a dynojet. Don't you think you should have mentioned that the test was done on an engine dyno? You did in the post you can read by clicking on the link below:

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/005290.html

I am no expert. But, I bet there is a big difference between an engine dyno and running an actual car on a dynojet. So, how about we all start comparing apples to apples. From what I am able to gather. Everyone considers the dynojet the standard to measure RWHP on. And since I said our test was done on a dynojet. Why even bother chiming in with somebody else's test that was done not using the same type of dyno?

And while you are at it... tell me how you only modify a Viper "a little bit" and get it to make 630 HP and include the price of those mods. Inquiring minds would love to know that one???

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/005290.html

As for the way they sound. I stated my opinion and I will stand by it. But, just as soon as the computer genius that works for me gets back from vacation. I will post links to exactly how they both sound... because we video taped our test.

And since you brought APEX Motorsports into this discussion. I will add the following... I had Bill at APEX Motorsports modify my rear brake calipers so I could install John Prunner's E/T Streets and skinnies on my 2001 ABS equipped Viper. While speaking to him on the telephone one day we got on the subject of headers. Bill told me that he recently had installed a set of Archer/CDI headers and he also thought they sounded terrible. I wish I could remember exactly how he described the sound. But, it was something like "a cross between a very loud Honda civic and a UPS truck". He went on to say that "everybody in the shop thought they sounded bad".

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Byron, The Topic is Archer Headers!

Engine modified a little in my opinion 630 hp vs the the CDI 800 hp ORECA motor's, its relative and my opinion.

Given a choice between a chassis dyno and an engine dyno for measuring an motor's hp, my choice is the engine.

Wayne works for APEX, he selected the CDI headers over the Belanger header and as I said before the peak hp was about the same on a chassis dyno.

If everyone feels the Corsa cat back sounds bad with the CDI headers, this may be a poor sounding combo. But nice or poor exhaust tone is a personal choice. I like the sound of GEN II motor with TNT headers and TNT Cat-back, GEN I motor with Edelbrock headers and Borla cat-back.

Wed. at Happy Day's Diner, San Jose, is Viper night, stop by if anyone wants to hear CDI headers with cats, and Bondio exhaust. Usually Vipers with other combos like Edelbrock and Borla, TNT, etc., stop by for a burger.

I do not know of a header that makes more hp than CDI on a stock of modified motor. Some headers like Belanger may make the same hp on a stock motor. Belanger headers take less effort to install per Wayne at APEX.

 

[TOOOFST]

When you think your straight,buy from John B.@parts rack.Sells everyones stuff and will trade out for something else if your unhappy!I just bought Belanger's for my 99R/T.

 

[treynor]

Well well -- since MY car was the first to get CDI headers installed at Apex, I can only assume Bill was referring to the sound mine makes now. A cross between a UPS truck and a Civic, eh?? PBBBBBBTHHHHHHHHH!!!

Back to being serious. As I've stated many times before, I prefer the sound of the Belanger headers. My car has heads, high-flow cats, belanger exhaust, and tuneable mufflers, and I have also described it as sounding like "God's own Honda Civic at 10,000 RPM". I'm putting Borla side-sill mufflers on it to try to get rid of some of the rasp and volume, so stay tuned.

I am interested to hear several data points which say the Belangers work better on stock-engined cars. I've heard other data points which say the opposite, but no one has seen a large difference between the two. Given the price differential I'll continue to recommend the Belanger headers for those who don't plan on opening up their engine.

Re: Fred's 630 HP engine, he is correct that extensive mods are not necessary to reach that power level. Assuming 15% driveline loss, 630 BHP = 535 RWHP. You'll get that power level on a Gen-II engine with the following: intake, headers, 3" high-flow cats, 3" exhaust, ported heads, 1.7 roller rockers, & aggressive street cam. My car makes 515 RWHP with all those mods except a stock 2001 cam, and I know of several cars making 540+ RWHP with similar setups and an aftermarket cam.

Re: the extra 10 HP -- I never tried comparing Belanger to CDI headers on my +heads car, so I can't comment on the accuracy of that figure. However, you certainly don't need $7500 CDI heads to achieve that power gain. There are a number of other tuners out there (I went with Hennessey) who do excellent head porting work and will get you comparable results for a fraction of the price.

 

[AZVIPERS]

Thanks for all of your input. Although now I am really confused on what brand to purchase. I am going to speak to my Viper Tech today and see what he says.

Thanks..

 

[JonB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AZVIPERS:
Thanks for all of your input. Although now I am really confused on what brand to purchase. I am going to speak to my Viper Tech today and see what he says. Thanks..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Confusing indeed! What is truly "BEST" if you don't like the result? The PartsRack development car is on its 5th set of headers......[an ARCHER set that was really installed just a few days before Ben's.] Ben had retail job 1! We are on the 14th cat-back mod. PartsRack is a distributor for: (alphabetical)

Archer
Belanger
Borla
Caldwell
Corsa
HMS
MoPar
SVS
.....and we can also provide Edelbrock.

Since our margins are about the same, I honestly don't have a bias, but YOU SHOULD HAVE A BIAS! Call me, please. Take our simple "user priority quiz" and select the right header or cat back for YOUR vehicle, YOUR goals, and YOUR driving venues.

I just want another happy customer.....one man's BEST is another Man's BUMMER..........

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

The Belenger seems to be a good choice (easy to install, lower cost than some others) for $$ vs gain. Edelbrock headers are also low cost and make nice mid-range gain on GEN I's and 97 GEN II's, and are smog legal in 50 States.

Comparing two 2001 GTS'a with different headers and Cat-Back has little value without the baseline (before mod) numbers. At a dyno day we saw GENII's with 404 to 422 RWH all stock. The 404 was on my GT2 (which comes with K&N filters) and a stock 98 GTS had the 422. With car to car delta's of 18 hp what value is the car to car data without the base line. Considering that the K&N's are worth at least 10hp the real delta is 28rwhp. But if you want to assume the motors were at the same starting point then the average hp would also important to know. How long does is take to go from 2500 to 5500 rpm?

Looks like Jon B has you covered no matter what you select.

Jon the side spliters are nice, thanks.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

If you want to listen to a CDI header with custom cat-back stop by the Happy Day's Diner, San Jose, CA., Aug. 15th Viper night. Also expect a Viper with TNT headers and cat-back, which sounds very nice to me.

 

[BLS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Comparing two 2001 GTS's with different headers and Cat-Back has little value without the baseline (before mod) numbers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fred, please re-read my posts above... we did a baseline (before mods) dyno on the 2001 GTS the week before the Archer/CDI headers were installed. Bone stock and with 1100 miles on the odometer. The car made 415 RWHP.

With the Archer/CDI Headers, 3" Corsa Cat-Back System and the cats removed... the car only made 433.5 RWHP.

That's an increase of only 18.5 RWHP. And to make matters worse... the system costs nearly $5000.00!!!

So, how is that for value ???

 

[BLS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If you want to listen to a CDI header with custom cat-back stop by the Happy Day's Diner, San Jose, CA., Aug. 15th Viper night.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can't make the trip. But, would like to find out what a very knowledgeable Viper owner thinks about the way the CDI header's sound on his car... please click on the link below:

http://www.btrviper.com/cgi-bin/messageboard/index.cgi?read=1154

Also, please consider the following:

You can buy the complete Bellenger Headers and exhaust system for about $3400.00.

I was quoted a little over $5000.00 for the complete Archer/CDI system from Archer Racing.

When I was trying to decide which system to buy. Everyone that had a financial interest in the CDI headers claimed greater horsepower gains and used it to justify the higher price. The fact is (based on our tests)... that claim is just not true.

As a new Viper owner (bought my GTS in May 2001), I found it incredible frustrating trying to wade through all of the hype, biased opinions and advertising BS that was being spread throughout the Viper community... about how certain performance parts and mods actually perform. It seemed like no matter who I talked to, everyone had a different opinion, claim or idea.

For what it is worth... here is my advice to anyone considering upgrading or modifying their Viper:

1.) Search the archives of this forum and learn everything you can before spending any money.

2.) Have your car dyno'ed on a Dynojet and find out what your car's baseline RWHP numbers are before you make any modifications.

3.) Make sure that when you are quoted HP numbers... that you are being quoted RWHP as tested on a Dynojet.

4.) Demand a performance guarantee. For example, if you are quoted a 50 RWHP increase if you buy company XYZ's product. Inform them that you had a baseline dyno test done and demand they give you a refund if their product or service does not perform as promised.

5.) Re-dyno your car after every performance modification you make.

6.) Post your findings on this forum so you can help prevent new or future Viper owners from wasting money on performance mods and parts that do not deliver as promised.

 

[Mike Adams]

Seems like we have two discussions going on which provide the most hp and which provide best bang for the buck ! I sell 4 kinds of headers Borla, SVP (same as Belanger but stainless steel), Hennessy, and B&B .

I have tried all 3 on my car which is been modified substanially now. My favorite for sound and performance on my car where the Hennessy headers. They where easy to install fit good and felt strong. When my car wasn't modified I preferred the Borla the seemed to provide good torque. The B&B are identical to Hennessy headers with smaller tubes (1 5/8 compared to 1 3/4). The SVP where easies to install but I had to fabicate a turn around pipe to go to current cat back system. But bang for the Buck you decide. Here are the prices of the "systems" which include cat back (svp, hennessy, and B$B ) require catalytic converter exhanges as I have the cats modified

Hennessy with my cat back $3400.00
Svp with my cat back $2800.00 (fabrication required)
B&B with my cat back $2400.00
Borla with borla cat back $2100.00

What you want is up to you But I feel even $2100 is alot of money for and exhuast which basically has one more pipe that a V8

 

[BLS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
They where easy to install fit good and felt strong.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
When my car wasn't modified I preferred the Borla the seemed to provide good torque.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for the input Mike. In your last post you made several references (to which I have quoted above) about how you thought different manufactures headers made your car feel and perform.

You used the phrases "felt strong" and "seemed to provide good torque". But, do you have any real performance data on any of those headers? I am sorry to say that how you or any other vendor/tuner thinks something feels just isn't going to cut it.

How about posting some before and after dynojet numbers backed by a money back performance guarantee? The Viper community is already filled with too many opinions, feelings and biased (financially motivated) statements that on the Dynojet, turn out to be nothing more than a disappointment to the customer.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Byron I made no reference to your posted hp dyno numbers. My post regarding base line was regarding the following.

"Sorry for the delay on the numbers, guys! The two cars tested are 01 GTS' with similar mileage and same correction factor (11.01)derived from a Dynojet 248 chasis dyno."

We are fortunate to have many options for headers, Belenger, Borla, Bondio Fab, CDI, Corsa, Edelbrock, HMS, SVSi, TNT, etc.

The cost varies from point of purchase, supplier etc. The price delta between CDI and Belenger is $200.00. CDI being more expensive. Shop around (PartRack, Summit) and you may get a better price. You installer may give you his discounted price if you pay for the parts and have them shipped to the installer.

Before buying headers it is important to define what you want present and future. Also is Smog Cert. important? Is Smog required for resale?

If Smog Cert. is important that eliminates all headers except Borla (Mopar) and Edelbrock.

Is exhaust tone an important consideration? If you see a viper that you like the tone then ask for a ride to make sure the tone inside the car is as nice. Get a detailed list of all mods and hope your motor produces the same note.

If power is the main goal is it peak power or average power (from 2k-5.5k RPM), with or without cats? Stock or modified motor? Is cost a factor? Ease of installation?

Many Tuners (Dan Cragin, Ted May, Sean Roe, APEX, etc.) have experience with many aftermarket systems and could help by rating (1-10) the following for, peak HP gain, average hp gain, ease of installation, header quality, fit, Tone, cost, what else?

Belenger
Borla
Bondio Fab
CDI
Corsa
Edelbrock
HMS
SVSi
TNT

Add the cat-back options to the mix and the stew gets pretty complex.

 

[Tom Welch]

Being a tuner and header vendor, maybe this is not the topic for me to get into but I have noticed one common item that I don't understand...........and it is;

If I want variety I go to wal-mart and look at different brands of light bulbs, toilet paper, cold syrup and the such. But when Im looking for a Big Ticket Item like Viper Exhaust I made my choice based upon Longevity and Success of the manufacturer, along with proven performance as validated by everyday users(not paid celebreties and sponsors)

Now, it seems like everyone carries a wal-mart sized variety of headers and exhaust hoping to lure in the unsuspecting and uninformed shopper by woeing him with his multitude of products.

I have chosen since day one to stand behined ONE GOOD PRODUCT and it has PROVEN time and again to outperform all competitors. I offer the ONLY performance guarantee in our industry. Thats how sure I am about the Belanger headers and exhaust that I sell and install.

Buy what you want. There are lots of choices. But if you want to WIN and sound great doing it, give me a call. I won't confuse you with stupid questions like, "are you looking for sound or are you looking for performance? or are you looking for both because we have 12 different systems to choose from!"

Ask the salesman who you are shopping with, what header does he have on HIS OWN VIPER! LOL!!

Just my thoughts as usual!

Tom
Http://btrviper.com


"If we had some HAM, we could have some HAM and EGGS, IF we had some EGGS"

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Good post John! The Belanger headers have a good following of happy customers, so do TNT, HMS, CDI, Edelbrock, etc. It is more important to work with a good installer/Tuner. But the most important item to improve, is our ability to manage the snake.

 

[treynor]

A few observations, straight from the horse's mouth if you will.

1) My car actually baselined at 408 RWHP / 442 RWTQ bone stock, and 415 RWHP / 448 RWTQ when I added K&Ns & smooth tubes. The upgrade to Belanger headers & exhaust with the stock cats in place netted 431 RWHP / 475 RWTQ. Switching to 3" high-flow cats brought me to 438 RWHP / 485 RWTQ. Based on available current data, these modest gains are typical of what you'd see on a '00+ car. I believe Wayne's '01 ACR (which used CDI headers and a custom 3" exhaust) saw almost identical gains.
2) On the dyno, one data point on the difference between high-flow and no cats on a headers+exhaust car is 7 RWHP and 12 RWTQ.
3) With that in mind, John's point about the Belanger+cats power is flawed because it compares a pre-2000 car with the HMS system to a 2001 car with the Belanger system. Given point (2) above, and given documented 50 RWHP gains with Belangers on pre-2000 cars, I expect that the Belanger headers would also make, well, 43 RWHP with high-flow cats on a pre-2000 car. If John has dyno data showing superior gains on a '00+ car with his system, then I withdraw the point.
4) With any system, you get the greatest gains by optimizing the weakest point first. It seems reasonable to propose that on a '00+ car, any good header system (HMS, BTR, CDI, etc.) will be good enough to move the power bottleneck elsewhere. I would be very interested to see how a headers/exhaust/highflow '00+ car responds to adding just 1.7 roller rockers; I wouldn't be surprised to see 15-20 RWHP gained from that one modification. Anyone done this experiment and willing to share the results?
5) I suspect John is right that the difference between the CDI and BTR headers on a heads+rockers '01 car would be 0-10 RWHP. However, I had neither the patience nor the budget to go into THAT level of experimentation. As other headers+exhaust cars do head upgrades, we will accumulate data on the relative gains and inferences on what effect the headers have on these gains.

oh yes, and

WAR HEADER SYSTEMS

 

[treynor]

... and yes, Fred's quite correct that the best bang-for-the-buck performance add-on is a driver upgrade. The fact that my best 1/4 mile in my ludicrously-powerful Viper is 11.78 @ 124 is testament to that fact. I'm sure he'll be pleased to know that I'll be spending this weekend down at Buttonwillow in my Viper, getting instruction from some much better drivers and learning to come to terms with 525 RWTQ in a track with curves.

 

[Tom Welch]

Ben,

Your assesment of the performance on 00-01' cars is correct. Thanks for sharing that for the benefit of my buddy John.

John,

Don't sweat it, I will always like you. Maybe I made my point wrong. My point in that post was that now a days enthusiasts can buy headers like candy in the mall. All the while, possibly missing out on which ones truly perform as they are overwhelmed with sales pitches and unsubstantiated performance claims by salesmen without first hand product knowledge.

Anyways, take a look at this dyno comparison Http://btrviper.com/dynofaq1.htm

This customer had your exhaust and also had a K&N airbox(I still had my stock airbox and tubes for the comparison) Both cars were 1997 GTS with within 1000 total miles of each other. Both cars ran catless. This customer switched to our brand that afternoon. Anyone intrested in speaking with this customer about the fit, finish, sound and performance differences between the two, please feel free to contact him....Lee Saunders (863)660-4803.

I do hope to line up against another 650R or even the ole' 800TT
soon.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:
I do hope to line up against another 650R or even the ole' 800TT soon.

Tom
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh my, I believe Texans consider that a little smackish?

I'd pay to see that one; no flame intended of course,
Doug

 

[BLS]

I would also pay to see that one and based on what I know about Tom Welch and his driving skills... my money would be on Tom!

John Hennessey, I am a little disappointed in you. Aren't you supposed to be the original Viper Guru? Because I do not believe for a second that you don't know that the 2000+ Vipers are down on power (about 20 RWHP) due to the cam change. Did you really think you could sell that comparison between a pre-2000 car with the HMS system to a 2001 car with the Belanger system?

And while we are it... I think there is something you should know. Back in May of this year (when I bought my car), I already had the $37K set aside to send my car to you for the complete Venom 650R engine upgrade. Like everybody else, I had been reading all of the magazine articles about you and I couldn't wait to have the work done. Then I stumbled onto this forum and did a little search of the archives. My plans to send my car and money to you forever changed.

Now let me do a little comparison of my own...

Norm Koerner's normally aspirated Venom 650R has run the 1/4 mile in 10.47 seconds @ 132 mph (with somebody else driving). According to your web site, this package starts at $37,500.00.

Tom Welch's car (with less than $8000.00 in upgrades) has run the 1/4 mile in 10.3 seconds.

You talk about "Bang for the Buck"... Tom Welch has got it.

 

[BobK898]

I've got an 01 RT/10 with S&B's, and smooth tubes which dynoed 424 RWHP. I guess the cam change didn't effect my car.

 

[BobK898]

Thanks John, it gets aggravating reading how the '00 and '01 are the weaker sisters.

 

[TX WHOS YOUR DADDY]

HEY BYRON STEWART AKA BS OPPS I MEANT BLS GREAT TO HEAR YOUR BANG FOR THE BUCK THEORY.WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE VIPER TUNER WORLD IS THE MANY PERFORMANCE PACKAGES OFFERED AT VARIOUS PRICING AFFORDING SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE.LOOKING FORWARD TO MEETING U AND LINING UP WITH YOUR MAD MAX THUNDER DOME AND BEYOND MACHINE ON OCTOBER 21ST HERE IN THE LONE STAR STATE.PLZ BE ADVISED I WILL BE BUYING THE FIRST ROUND AND ALSO DRIVING MY CAR DOWN THE QTR.MILE.IVE GOT A SPECIAL HIGH PERFORMANCE TRICK SET UP TO RUN JUST AGAINST YOU AND THE FLORIDA POSSE.KINDEST REGARDS!CAPS KOERNER

 

[BLS]

Bob, the 2000 and 2001 Vipers are not weaker sisters from the factory. They just do not respond as well to exhaust modifications as the older cars do (96-99). And we have seen this problem with (3) 2001 cars on this board so far.

Remember, Gary Lashinsky's 2001 GTS made 415 RWHP with 1100 miles on the odometer. This car made that much HP in a 100% stock configuration.

He then added the CDI Headers, the new 3" Corsa Catback and removed the cats. A week later the car was placed on the very same dynojet and the best pull it could make was 433.5 RWHP (+18.5).

Both Ben Treynor and I have had similar results on our 2001 cars.

I wish it were not true. But, unfortunately it is. I just wish one of these big shot "Viper Tuners" like John Hennessey would come up with a proven solution for the problem.

 

[Gerald]

Funny thread..

Each has it's advantages, Nitrous, S/C, Motor..

If there's a race, just hope there's a NO2 or Propane station nearby cuz after a few runs or more, you'll be down on bottle pressure, etc and maybe get your a$$ handed to you.
Lets all respect others ppl engines packages and the choices they've made..

 

[BLS]

Thank you Norm.

I just bought a new truck and trailor just so I could come out and party with you girls in Texas. The Florida Posse will definitely be there and we will be stroger than ever.

As for you, I would highly recommned that you contact Fred Kinder and take a couple of those driving schools he is always talking about. Because I have definitely got something for you baby.

Afterwards, you can buy me all the drinks you want.

PS - I will only need 6 cylinders and one big turbo to take you... think about it!