Are the Gen II's value a little too high??

[RTTTTed]

V10emous --- "Ted... Great overview of the piston issue but the perception is that a forged piston car is more desirable right now... The Creampuff motor label certainly doesn't enhance the image of the car but who knows maybe that will change in the future. Can you do a run down on the Cam differences too "

I agree that most people don't care too much about the various advantages and disadvantages - or Gen 1 and 2s without brake upgrades (other than the 01 & 02s with larger rear calipers and ABS) would be hard to sell (only .8Gs), but ... I posted the info just so that a few more people become more knowledgeable about their and our cars. My 01 has forged pistons that were designed for a blower. Of course when you build things properly the pistons cost was nearly equal to the Blower kit. Best depends on the useage of the car.

As far as camshafts go, I do have a 708 camshaft in my Roe car. There are custom blower cams that would have made a few hp more, but they also cost a minimium of triple. I think (not confirmed) that the newer camshaft for the creampuff engine took advantage of the higher hp of the Hypereutectic pistons to smooth out the idle and the "bucking" that the magazines (bad drivers?) experienced. I think that there is a small hp increase with the 708.

Ted

 

[white out]

I'm aware that the ACR shocks have pros and cons but with a factory harness and the ACR designation and slightly higher factory HP rating and the BBS wheels the ACR cars will bring the much bigger dollars down the road.

They do, even now. On craigslook (nationwide search of craigslist), the cheapest ACR is $40k.

Nick

 

[RTTTTed]

An ACR options was about $10K when new and adds $5K to the value of a used Viper.

 

[v10enomous]

An ACR options was about $10K when new and adds $5K to the value of a used Viper.

A good comparison would be AAR Cudas and T/A Challengers that now sell for 2-3 times what a comparable 340 car without that designation will. When they were 10 year old used cars the price difference wasn't quite the option cost either. The ACR cars will be coveted in much the same way.

 

[bigdeep1]

You say the ACR cars are selling for no less thant $40k. I have seen most CLEAN Gen II Vipers sell from $36k - $48k recently. I have to be honest, I know that was the asking price....can't confirm the sale price.

I will use a few ebay vipers as current examples:

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 170548520840 end time Oct-17-10 20:30:00 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 220681675333 end time Oct-21-10 06:57:09 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 300478078923 end time Oct-28-10 14:08:41 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 260673214037 end time Oct-25-10 13:23:54 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 170551661295 end time Oct-18-10 15:32:20 PDT)

 

[97GTS]

All Vipers share the same DNA. Gen 1's are just as fun to drive as the newest ones.

Colors and body shapes are all personal choices, and it pains me to see someone brag that their Viper is superior to someone elses, and that their choice was the best and the others ****.

I believe it is a crappy thing to do to throw up a bunch of statistics with strong spin to make the case that their Viper is better than someone elses.

Love and enjoy your Viper, but don't crap on someone elses choice.

Hammer hits nail on head. Buy what YOU like and respect others for what THEY like.



Ron

 

[Bruce]

Ok, I am sure most of you are storming into this thread irate at my subject title. Hear me out, and please understand that I DO have love and respect for the Gen II.

I ask this question, because it seems that Gen II prices are often as high or higher than Gen IIIs. I now see Gen IVs being sold in the high 40s. YES, I do agree that the Gen II is the classic Viper design. I also agree that the Gen III and IVs could not capture that Viper sex appeal that the Gen II unleashed on the world.

I find it difficult to justify spending more money on an older model when I could have more factory power, more life in the paint and drivetrain, greater reliability and less maintenance with a newer model (with the same money spent). I noticed the Gen IIs dropped in price/re-sale in 2008 after the Gen IVs came out (and in 2006 when the coupe came out); however, their value and re-sale has increased recently. I am thrilled for Gen II owners and all Viper owners with the awesome re-sale value these 10+ year old snakes are bringing in!!

Gen IV's look too much like a Corvette. But they are very, very, nice. I like the Gen II the best.

 

[v10enomous]

You can hit the completed listings button in ebay and look for the prices in green for cars that actually sold. The cars you picked out here seem to be very low mileage. If you plan to drive the car something that has more miles on it will be a better value. That car with 90 miles could have problems if someone actually starts using it after sitting so long.

You say the ACR cars are selling for no less thant $40k. I have seen most CLEAN Gen II Vipers sell from $36k - $48k recently. I have to be honest, I know that was the asking price....can't confirm the sale price.

I will use a few ebay vipers as current examples:

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 170548520840 end time Oct-17-10 20:30:00 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 220681675333 end time Oct-21-10 06:57:09 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 300478078923 end time Oct-28-10 14:08:41 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 260673214037 end time Oct-25-10 13:23:54 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 170551661295 end time Oct-18-10 15:32:20 PDT)

 

[RTTTTed]

A good comparison would be AAR Cudas and T/A Challengers that now sell for 2-3 times what a comparable 340 car without that designation will. When they were 10 year old used cars the price difference wasn't quite the option cost either. The ACR cars will be coveted in much the same way.

I agree. The extra $12,000 worth of shocks do have serious value as well, and the BBS lightweight wheels are still a set of the nicest wheels to come on a Viper.

According to the Viper registry there were only about 819 ACRs built between 1999 and 2002. International Viper Registry

Ted

 

[cratica]

A good comparison would be AAR Cudas and T/A Challengers that now sell for 2-3 times what a comparable 340 car without that designation will. When they were 10 year old used cars the price difference wasn't quite the option cost either. The ACR cars will be coveted in much the same way.

I think that would be true IF the ACR actually was that different from a standard Viper. A lot of the cars that pull a huge premium are because the engine is different or there is a major difference in the "package". I just don't see the ACR as that much more desirable (and less desirable for some people) than the standard viper.

 

[RTTTTed]

AAR and T/A had a different engine (+40bhp 6pk and 4blt mains), trans (Hemi font drum) and stripes/decals built for rally.

ACR has $12,000 worth of racing shocks, $4,000 worth of lighweight racing wheels, different air intake system +10bhp, racing harnesses, decals and badge. Option cost was about 12% extra cost.

Although AARs and T/As were premium options, they weren't Hemis. The 'cudas and challengers came with a 6 cyl, 318, 340, 360, 383, 400, 440 and a Hemi.

The GTSR is the Hemi Daytona while the ACR is nearer the Hemi 'cuda.

Not going to equal the GTSR, but definitely not a 340 ... since the ACR has the same hp as the GTSR.

 

[v10enomous]

I didn't mean to imply that 340 Cuda's compare to ACR GTSs. I was just wanted to point out that a racing specific package like the AAR and ACR designations become much more valuable over time. I was poking around a little and found that even though the AARs and T/As were only a one year offering there were far more built than all years of the GenII ACRs. I'm not sure what production of standard 340 6pack Cudas and Challengers was. I see nice 340 6pack Cuda's that sell between $30-$40k while nice AARs and T/As sell around $100k. The perception of the package also seems to gain significance while the actual content becomes less significant over time.

So in terms of the original post I would say that values are actually low right now overall but the ACR cars are probably way undervalued. Most of the ACR cars also seem to have lower mileage. That's probably because they are either track cars or collector cars. However, I did see a 99 ACR on ebay with mileage in the high 50s.

AAR and T/A had a different engine (+40bhp 6pk and 4blt mains), trans (Hemi font drum) and stripes/decals built for rally.

ACR has $12,000 worth of racing shocks, $4,000 worth of lighweight racing wheels, different air intake system +10bhp, racing harnesses, decals and badge. Option cost was about 12% extra cost.

Although AARs and T/As were premium options, they weren't Hemis. The 'cudas and challengers came with a 6 cyl, 318, 340, 360, 383, 400, 440 and a Hemi.

The GTSR is the Hemi Daytona while the ACR is nearer the Hemi 'cuda.

Not going to equal the GTSR, but definitely not a 340 ... since the ACR has the same hp as the GTSR.

 

[white out]

You say the ACR cars are selling for no less thant $40k. I have seen most CLEAN Gen II Vipers sell from $36k - $48k recently. I have to be honest, I know that was the asking price....can't confirm the sale price.

I have no idea what the sale prices are. Just stating what they are going for. . . and you just compared 30k mile ACRs to a 94 mile GTS.

FYI, cheapest GTS on craigslook is at $24k.

Nick

 

[RTTTTed]

Keeping in mind that since these cars are older now the condition is important. An idiot would buy a Viper with old tires, whereas a smart guy would cut a thousand (at least) for any older tires than PS2s.

Older tires are OK unless you want to drive the car.

 

[v10enomous]

Here's a couple that appear to be real nice that actually just sold... Low mile and 1 owner.

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 250706928511 end time Oct-12-10 11:56:42 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 290486605476 end time Oct-11-10 06:31:45 PDT)

 

[TAXIMAN1]

Here's a couple that appear to be real nice that actually just sold... Low mile and 1 owner.

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 250706928511 end time Oct-12-10 11:56:42 PDT)

Dodge : Viper: eBay Motors (item 290486605476 end time Oct-11-10 06:31:45 PDT)

the first one has clearly had some work done on the front facia. The second one is an accident car, WITH autocheck history. for what its worth.

 

[plumcrazy]

<<---- would definitely call taximan to look at a car if i was gonna buy another one

 

[Lawrenzo]

the first one has clearly had some work done on the front facia. The second one is an accident car, WITH autocheck history. for what its worth.

What can be seen on the front fascia

 

[plumcrazy]

looks like the bottom lip is blue ?

 

[PDCjonny]

Looking at the Registry my picks right now for a collector GTS aside from the GTS-R cars in order of desirability and potential appreciation would be:

99 ACR Silver with stripes
01/02 ACR Yellow with Stripes
98 GTS Silver with Stripes
02 Final Edition
01 Saphire Stripes Black int
00 ACR Steel Gray with stripes
96/97 Blue White

Yes Taximan1 knows his cars!

With all due respect I think your confusing low production numbers with desirabilty. They are seldom related with Vipers.
Except for the iconic Blue and White and the last year FE there is no clamor whatsoever for any of the others. A silver 98?? A yellow ACR? Very nice cars but....
Low production yes.
High desirability no.

 

[v10enomous]

As I was reading your post I looked up at the top of the page at the Tire Rack banner ad and noticed that of all the years of Viper models and colors which one they used in their ad. I was really just saying that the cars in my list seemed like they have reasonably good POTENTIAL for appreciation. I'm pretty new to Vipers but future potential buyers with lots of cash will also have varying degrees of experience. To me a 99 silver/blue 1 of 30 ACR trumps a 1 of 2,100+ B/W with the 17" wheels but they are both really sweet and it sounds like I might be in the minority....

As far as low production I'll stand by statement that low production will equate to future value especially in the Viper market as low production/exclusivity is one of the main draws for most people to own a Viper. The other color combos in my list seem to get a lot of comments here about how good they look.

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Yes Taximan1 knows his cars!

With all due respect I think your confusing low production numbers with desirabilty. They are seldom related with Vipers.
Except for the iconic Blue and White and the last year FE there is no clamor whatsoever for any of the others. A silver 98?? A yellow ACR? Very nice cars but....
Low production yes.
High desirability no.

 

[scoobie]

Gen 2's remind me of C2's. I think production #'s, condition, miles, colors, options and documentation are all big factors on future desirability. Jus my opinion...
and yes - yellow acr's rule!

 

[bigdeep1]

I have been looking at various years of Vipers for sale on Ebay, and it honestly seems that there is not a big price difference between the Gen 2s and Gen 3s. There is often maybe only a $10k diff with some Gen 2s vs Gen 4s. Yes, I am comparing well maintained cars with reasonable miles. Anyways, I am just venting. The Gen2s are gorgeous rare vehicles, and are worth every penny. My comment is not necessarily that the Gen2s are not worth the money, but that they are selling at the same cost as new Generations. As many have said, it IS about supply and demand and popularity.