Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
I still have mine and love it. but I didn't build it for a daily-driver...
Are TT Vipers time-bombs?
- Thread starter Alexarz
- Start date
I'm still quite a ways away from owning my first Viper, but from what I can tell from browsing on here and on Viper Alley for awhile is this:
Never try to go as cheap as possible in building a turbo car. People are always looking for a steal on the work, and it never fails to come back and bite them when things start going wrong. Then, they spend the money they thought they had saved and then some.
Do it right the first time, spend the extra money to save yourself the extra hassles and get the better build quality. Go with a shop that has an outstanding reputation, and always remember the two common sense rules:
1. You get what you pay for.
2. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is.
Good luck in your build, curious to see how it turns out.
Never try to go as cheap as possible in building a turbo car. People are always looking for a steal on the work, and it never fails to come back and bite them when things start going wrong. Then, they spend the money they thought they had saved and then some.
Do it right the first time, spend the extra money to save yourself the extra hassles and get the better build quality. Go with a shop that has an outstanding reputation, and always remember the two common sense rules:
1. You get what you pay for.
2. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is.
Good luck in your build, curious to see how it turns out.
JohnnyBravo
Enthusiast
UGR's "KING KONG" build for a Gen III consists of a 522 stroker (forged internals, custome pistons/rods, billet main caps, best of everything), race heads, custom roller cam, full fuel system (3 in-tank pumps, fpr, new rails, injectors, etc), twin turbos (76's or 78's), AEM stand alone, installation and tuning.
Those cars tend to make 1100+ rwhp on pump gas and upwards of 1400 rwhp on race gas.
I believe the total build price for everything (motor, heads, cam, fuel system, twin turbo setup, AEM, install and tuning) out the door is around $50k.
They are also the only tuner in the industry (as far as I know) to give a full 2 year/24,000 mile warranty on their builds. That's peace of mind, right there.
Great points Joe (I dont know if you remember me as we spoke years ago .I am a friend of Joe Houss -he owns my old modded Gen 2 )Guys any time you mod a car (ESP with the power numbers being tossed around here and ESP if you run SLICKS at the track )it Never will be as reliable as stock(I dont car who does the build).Who ever owns the car BETTER have deep pockets as i have seen forced induction cars detonate (something as simple as a bad tank of gas )resulting in a 35000 engine turning into mass of scrap metal.Bottom line is that anytime you mod a car beyond a certain point, stuff breaks. It's been said before, but over 700-800rwhp, if you drive your car hard, stuff will break. And if you race, it will break even quicker!
Even with built drivetrains, engines, chassis, etc... you will break.
90% of the people that own high HP TT cars don't run them hard but once in a while if at all. Make a mental list... how many people that have them actually race them? Not many. I bet you have more fingers than you have more names. I know I do. That is also why turn-out at viper racing events tends to be low. Who wants to beat the crap out of an expensive car with anywhere between $0 in mods to $80k in mods?
TT's are awesome. But they also get built and then become ebay fodder very quickly.
And the twin disc clutches: no matter what anyone tells you, they are NOT "like" stock. this, right there, may take away from your enjoyment of the car.
my .02... having been around the block a few times. This isn't a diatribe on TT cars specifically, but on high HP set-ups on ANY car.
Alexarz
Enthusiast
You just scared the holy TT **** out of me!
With any forced induction car (ESP WITH THE BOOST LEVELS talked about here) it can and does happen (Push the car ******* a hot day with ANY type of condition resulting in LEANING OUT UNDER BOOST )and IN AN INSTANT you can kiss the best built motor goodbye resulting in (alot of times )a repair costing tens of thousands of dollars (i know first hand ) .Every bodys defination of running a car hard is different (Mr Dell is absolutely correct in saying very few of the people with these Mega hp monsters actually run them hard )Dodge could have easily gone forced induction (supercharged )in going from the GEN 3to the Gen 4 they did not and one of the main reasons was that that no forced induction motor out there could come near the reliability of a NAT Asperated motor (esp since they knew alot of Viper owners roadrace them on VERY HOT days )
" The 2010 Shelby GT500 is powered by a supercharged and intercooled 5.4-liter dual overhead cam V-8 engine expected to produce 540 horsepower and 510 foot-pounds of torque. The redline is 6,250 rpm. The car's aluminum power dome hood not only adds to the Shelby's appearance, it helps cool the engine through a hood extractor..."
UndergroundRacing.com
Enthusiast
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Exactly as on the stock pilots your really not hooking up with ANY power level OVER 550RWHP.
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
And then ask yourself what percentage of high HP Turbo cars ever get driven even close to their peak. I'd bet the odds and warranty people's cars too because most are NOT going to abuse the cars at all.
As for time bombs? Any race-car is a ticking time bomb. Rule #1 of racing: you race, you break. Anyone who things that they can race a street car week after week without breaking needs their head examined.
As for time bombs? Any race-car is a ticking time bomb. Rule #1 of racing: you race, you break. Anyone who things that they can race a street car week after week without breaking needs their head examined.
Really basically just a *issing match to see who has the highest horsepower number out there as no driver i have ever seen (and i have raced with two of the best in Evan Smith and Jamie Furman )could come near using over 1000HP in a Viper on Pilots. Years ago Smith tested Dan Blacks Gen 2 DLM Stage 2 at E-Town on Pilots and at 750 to the tire was ALL over the racetrack.Some of these turbo cars are well over 1100 to the tire.
So True and we are talking about in this case an engine package that can cost more than the value of the car its going in. Another factor when racing is considered is the amount of safety equipted that needs to be installed in a car capable of easily trapping over 160 mph(ANYTHING OVER 150 MPH TRAP SPEED in the quarter mile NHRA basically considers a FULL RACE CAR (Full roll cage ,Fire system ,Scattershield ,Parachute,VISABLE Battery cut off switch Drive and half shaft loops=MANDATORY)as no track i know of is going to allow a car more than one run without being thrown out for lack of the above.When EVERYTHING is said and done try street driving your BUTCHERED Viper with a 10 point roll cage(plus all the other extras ) in it .
kllymartin
Viper Owner
My Heffner TT SRT is a blast. And so was my RSI TT SRT. And I would guess I put more miles on my cars than most. A good tune is the most important component IMO.
kllymartin
Viper Owner
Manley Rods
Billet main caps
CP Pistons
Offset/ground crank, etc.
Rod bearings
Main bearings
I don't see getting those parts, any machine work, assembly and the r/r for less than $8,500.
Billet main caps
CP Pistons
Offset/ground crank, etc.
Rod bearings
Main bearings
I don't see getting those parts, any machine work, assembly and the r/r for less than $8,500.
At 8500 Very GOOD price hell parts aside have good amount labor =Machine block accept new billet caps,machine crank =stroker ,balence rotating assembly.How are the Manley Rods .Evan Smith(Muscle Mustang and Fast Ford) got them to make custom pistons for my Gen 2 (only 30 minutes from my house )they did a great job considering they dont usually make Viper Pistons.
BigBadViper
Enthusiast
I have a set of ported and polished greg Goods for sale. Car dynoed 1176 on pump gas and 1480 on race gas.
From your build sheet (listed before) you have great parts)Out of curosity what did your guy hit you for machine work (machine block for caps ,blueprint balence ect).Your probably better off leaving the crank alone instead of REMOVING material=Stroker Years ago i was told anyone running over 1100 hp should upgrade the crank to a 4340 BILLET .LPE used to do this on their 540 strokers BUT thats BIG money as a billet crank has to be 6000.00 at least
billet crank is around $4,500
Is it true the stock vrank should be replaced if you plan on more than 1100 hp?
It was about 2900 for everything.. .
This included.. Cleaning up the stock bore.... balancing everything.. Mains... crankscraper to fit oilpan...
I still think the stock crank will do that job... most use the grind for the stroker which weakens it..
So plain stock with some cleanup should do just fine...
Joe
This included.. Cleaning up the stock bore.... balancing everything.. Mains... crankscraper to fit oilpan...
I still think the stock crank will do that job... most use the grind for the stroker which weakens it..
So plain stock with some cleanup should do just fine...
Joe
I don't believe it is a requirement, as far as I know there are only a handful of TT cars with billet cranks in them, the norm is a worked stock crank
Today i stopped to see my engine builder (Nick at Modern )who just got done putting a Twin Turbo in an SRT Pickup that made 1100 RWHP (G-35 TURBOS )Anyhow my above listed prices are WAY LOW.Jobber on a set of rods (CROWER ,or MANLEY )is now 175 per rod.Jobber on the CP Pistons with rings is 1600.The billet caps are more like 750 (parts only )The turbo cam and lifters were 1000(billet) .The lower eng gasket set was 550 .The timing chain was 275.Complete PARTS ONLY SHORTBLOCK at jobber price =5925.00 plus tax Please let me reiterate the above parts are at Jobber the average person off the street can not call buy for that.
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