Attention all paying vendors and sponsors of this site...

[DaJerseyViper]

I dont know how much you pay to vend your products and advertise your business here, but Im sure its not for FREE. That being said, how do you feel about RSI's 2 minute commercial advertising their business and work they were allowed to post on this site, clearly against forum rules since it clearly advertises their place of business and they are NOT A PAYING SPONSOR OF THE SITE. Here is the thread:

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/672230-World-s-First-TA-Twin-Turbo-Viper


Here is the kick in the *******, Several high ranking members of the leadership of the VCA have seen the thread and even posted in the thread, and apparently find nothing wrong with it. Now Im not looking to start trouble or rub people the wrong way, but what's right is right, and if you pay to play, why should RSI be allowed a free pass to advertise here, especially in light of past events and allegations of wrongdoings...

 

[ViperJeff]

I may have misread a few posts, but that thread surely didn't seem like a ringing endorsement and may have even been counter productive for RSI. So I'm not sure any favors were done here

 

[Free2go]

I dont know how much you pay to vend your products and advertise your business here, but Im sure its not for FREE. That being said, how do you feel about RSI's 2 minute commercial advertising their business and work they were allowed to post on this site, clearly against forum rules since it clearly advertises their place of business and they are NOT A PAYING SPONSOR OF THE SITE. Here is the thread:

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/672230-World-s-First-TA-Twin-Turbo-Viper


Here is the kick in the *******, Several high ranking members of the leadership of the VCA have seen the thread and even posted in the thread, and apparently find nothing wrong with it. Now Im not looking to start trouble or rub people the wrong way, but what's right is right, and if you pay to play, why should RSI be allowed a free pass to advertise here, especially in light of past events and allegations of wrongdoings...

You must be registered for see images attach

................................

 

[DaJerseyViper]

I may have misread a few posts, but that thread surely didn't seem like a ringing endorsement and may have even been counter productive for RSI. So I'm not sure any favors were done here

You missed the entire point. The thread and the video should have been deleted the second it was seen by the VCA staff for unpaid advertising... A few of us made sure the thread went the direction it needed to go ;-)

 

[Free2go]

Any link that I post to the other club is promptly deleted...which is proof the admins. here care about following some of the rules.

 

[TrackAire]

If Hennessey posted up a new video of a Viper project, would it be allowed to stay up? Lets face it, the issue is not what was posted up, but who posted and the "Hennessey" like issues
associated with it.

On another note, I'm not sure what VCA sponsors are going to get pissed because I can't seem to find them listed anywhere on this website.....where the hell is the link?

 

[CWhiteRun]

This thread will dis-appear in 3, 2, 1...............

 

[ViperJeff]

You missed the entire point. The thread and the video should have been deleted the second it was seen by the VCA staff for unpaid advertising... A few of us made sure the thread went the direction it needed to go ;-)

I know the point your making.....

 

[Bobpantax]

Hi DJV. Your point is well taken but with the critical comments now posted there, perhaps it should stay up. If I was the vendor at issue, I would want the thread eliminated. It's a close call. It may have started out as a promo type thread but it sure is not that now. Plus I think your thoughtful post #30 on page one of the thread is educational, fair and balanced and something people in general should think about when determining what "tuner" to use.

 

[johniew398]

I don't think it matters what RSI posts on this site or any other. I have a 14 TA and if I were going to have any more mods done to it I would never touch RSI because of all the bad press and unfinished jobs.

I understand the point of your post; however, I'm pretty sure most of the vendors here just blow off anything RSI posts because they know the majority of us wouldn't touch RSI for work.

 

[DaJerseyViper]

Taken right form the forum rules.

10. For the protection of our Viperclub.org users, any advertiser or non-advertiser/vendor with repeated-documented evidence of inappropriate business ethics or repeated site policy violations, can be removed from Viperclub.org, including "blanking out", or removing entirely, the use of the company's name/owner(s) (including any other firm name in which the offending business owner is a principal, partner or licensee) from any and all past or future postings."

19. Posts by Users that are in the business of providing Viper parts/services that are not Site Sponsors, and are posting to gain exposure for their business, or whose posts contain information about their own products or about the products of any other business providing Viper products/services, are subject to deletion and the User may have their ability to send a PM or e-mail through the Forum software disabled at the discretion of the Administrator. Such Users may also be subject to being placed in a “moderated status”.


Just sayin...Rules are rules..

Not to mention this rule they broke...

14. The Viper Club of America and its sponsors do not condone illegal street racing. As such, there will be no posts promoting or reporting such activity. This includes descriptions, pictures, or videos. The VCA encourages you to "take it to the track" and drive safely.

I clearly saw that vehicle being operated recklessly on a public roadway at speed up to 143 mph within the first few seconds of the video..

 

[DaJerseyViper]

I don't think it matters what RSI posts on this site or any other. I have a 14 TA and if I were going to have any more mods done to it I would never touch RSI because of all the bad press and unfinished jobs.

I understand the point of your post; however, I'm pretty sure most of the vendors here just blow off anything RSI posts because they know the majority of us wouldn't touch RSI for work.

The point is not that no one takes RSI seriously, the point is that the FORUM OWNERS ALLOW IT..Thats the point..The rules are allowed to be broken, then they should be broken for everyone..Whats the point of even having rules at that point?

 

[Bobpantax]

In 10, the word "can" does not mean "shall".

In 12, it says "may" not shall.

With that said, I think you are requesting that based on the facts the Administrator exercise its discretion to delete the thread and prevent any similar thread from occurring. Correct?

Rule 14, in spirit, suggests the activity shown in the video should not be encouraged but the video does not depict a "street race" since it is only one car. In addition, Rule 14, over the years, has been selectively enforced depending on the safety of the situation. For instance, there were some recent links to videos posted of a certain Texas TA that stomped a new Vette Z06 in a series of roll races. The driver is a highly skilled driver well known and respected in the Viper community.

So for legal purposes the rule is there but think of it like the current law regarding cannabis use. The Feds do not enforce it in states where its legal even though it remains illegal under Federal law. Texas has a pretty high speed limit and considers itself a sovereign nation. LOL.

Taken right form the forum rules.



10. For the protection of our Viperclub.org users, any advertiser or non-advertiser/vendor with repeated-documented evidence of inappropriate business ethics or repeated site policy violations, can be removed from Viperclub.org, including "blanking out", or removing entirely, the use of the company's name/owner(s) (including any other firm name in which the offending business owner is a principal, partner or licensee) from any and all past or future postings."

19. Posts by Users that are in the business of providing Viper parts/services that are not Site Sponsors, and are posting to gain exposure for their business, or whose posts contain information about their own products or about the products of any other business providing Viper products/services, are subject to deletion and the User may have their ability to send a PM or e-mail through the Forum software disabled at the discretion of the Administrator. Such Users may also be subject to being placed in a “moderated status”.


Just sayin...Rules are rules..

Not to mention this rule they broke...

14. The Viper Club of America and its sponsors do not condone illegal street racing. As such, there will be no posts promoting or reporting such activity. This includes descriptions, pictures, or videos. The VCA encourages you to "take it to the track" and drive safely.

I clearly saw that vehicle being operated recklessly on a public roadway at speed up to 143 mph within the first few seconds of the video..

 

[Free2go]

With that said, I think you are requesting that based on the facts the Administrator exercise its discretion to delete the thread and prevent any similar thread from occurring. Correct?

Hell no not correct . My fantasy was to delete the RSI video and leave the rest for us to create a 20 page blood fest.

 

[Sybil TF]

Hell no not correct . My fantasy was to delete the RSI video and leave the rest for us to create a 20 page blood fest.

Well shoot the other thread has been moved.

Some guy named Dereiter on the Alley says RSI has had his car since 2009. This can't be possible. Can it?

 

[Nsane1]

One should never underestimate the amount of time people will devote to something they care deeply about, without any obvious benefit (that's the same kind of insanity we at the VCA suffer under ironically). Your point was taken, I was on a plane last night, but removed the thread first thing this AM, and RSI has been informed.

Are we good now? Can we close this thread now that the point is moot?

 

[DaJerseyViper]

One should never underestimate the amount of time people will devote to something they care deeply about, without any obvious benefit (that's the same kind of insanity we at the VCA suffer under ironically). Your point was taken, I was on a plane last night, but removed the thread first thing this AM, and RSI has been informed.

Are we good now? Can we close this thread now that the point is moot?

Just as long as you and your buddies do your jobs and moderate the forums according to the rules and protect us from unscrupulous vendors/shops, then Ya, were all good... The sad thing is the Video got 1.4 million Youtube views..Looks like we got some work to do fellas!!! And as far as reffering to any of us as insane, you clearly are the insane one to even allow Will to darken the doorstep of the VCA, reason #378 the VCA will never see a penny of my money as dues...But thats another thread for another day.. I have been a member of the Viper community a few short months yet ony the same 2 names keep throwing up warning flags, Vipe-Air and RSI....I havent heard a bad thing about any other shop or person in the Vipers tuning community thus far to the extreme I have about RSI. The even allow them to post on your Viper CLub of America is reckless at best...Hell even as much as I have been turned off at Dan Lesser's attitude, I have still heard nothing but positive things about his work..

Thank you kind sir for protecting the community from the unsolicited advertisement of the wolves in sheep clothing.(even if it took being called on the carpet by the community...)

 

[Sybil TF]

Your point was taken, I was on a plane last night, but removed the thread first thing this AM, and RSI has been informed.

Well you can't ask for more than that.

 

[Free2go]

For the record Greg, I may have laid down on ground and created a $hit angel...but I didn't conjure the $hit storm.

 

[Paul Hawker]

I believe this type of discussion has been going on for as long as I have been a member. I have seen several vendors chastised for improper posting, and the results have most always been the same. When disgruntled prior customers of said vendors see the post they, and their supporters post all the wrong things that the vendor has done, and the general forum reader is fully informed on both sides of the argument.

Believe this is one of the proper functions of an active forum. Bad vendors are sorted out from the good. Sometimes a bad vendor mends their ways, and regains respectability over time. On the other hand, sometimes a great vendor will fall apart, and their good reputation becomes tarnished.

One of the problems is many posters have little first hand knowledge about the issue, but simply parrot what they have read in previous posts. They get on the bandwagon and take personal responsiblity to keep raising up all the previous problems. This causes no big problems if the poster is accurate, but often times they just tend to inflame the situation.

I am glad to see that the moderators considered their actions before jumping to conclusions, but also glad that both sides of the discussion were discussed.

Surely these items will continue to pop up, and the moderators will need to keep on their toes.

 

[Free2go]

I guess I need to spell it out. As members, we want fairness and justice. There were problems here a few years ago when a couple of people decided they were entitled to what they wanted. Greg, you said "it would be cool and convenient for the NT Viper club to have RSI as a vendor". You also stated "I want RSI to succeed", and "every time I go to RSI they are busy" etc. If you were such a good friend to Will and a good manager you would have told him to clean up his act and not let him post that video. You are so close to the situation that you can't see the big picture here. People are financially damaged because of RSI...REAL PEOPLE. I personally don't want to see a video of a TT Gen V spitting flames out the side and advertising RSI...big faaaken deal. We want RSI to be held accountable and pay what they owe. They have judgements against them that they have never paid a dime on. It's an embarrassment to this club that they were allowed to post that video and in doing so, negated many peoples confidence in this club moving in the right direction...including mine. Maybe it's time for new leadership that puts it's members before a "fallen tuner".

 

[Free2go]

And AZTVR put it best:

"We aren't stupid just because we like cars that make loud noises".

 

[DaJerseyViper]

I guess I need to spell it out. As members, we want fairness and justice. There were problems here a few years ago when a couple of people decided they were entitled to what they wanted. Greg, you said "it would be cool and convenient for the NT Viper club to have RSI as a vendor". You also stated "I want RSI to succeed", and "every time I go to RSI they are busy" etc. If you were such a good friend to Will and a good manager you would have told him to clean up his act and not let him post that video. You are so close to the situation that you can't see the big picture here. People are financially damaged because of RSI...REAL PEOPLE. I personally don't want to see a video of a TT Gen V spitting flames out the side and advertising RSI...big faaaken deal. We want RSI to be held accountable and pay what they owe. They have judgements against them that they have never paid a dime on. It's an embarrassment to this club that they were allowed to post that video and in doing so, negated many peoples confidence in this club moving in the right direction...including mine. Maybe it's time for new leadership that puts it's members before a "fallen tuner".

Having been around the block a few times, I saw the writing on the wall and the backdoor **** going down just by Greg's comments you just quoted. What respect I had for him as an online presence, I lost with his one single post on that thread. I have no dog in this fight, and speak not from personal experience with the shop of topic, but from personal experiences in the past dealing with shops EXACTLY like the shop of topic and how history repeats itself over and over and over again. One disgruntled customer, could be an anomaly..two or three horror stories, well perhaps its a bad run of luck..But half a dozen or more people being ripped off or lied to, its kind of a pattern of operation/ modus of operandi of a shady business.

 

[Bird325]

... .(even if it took being called on the carpet by the community...)

Come ON ... give the guy a break! He works for a living and travels all over the world. There are actually times that he isn't online, able to monitor every goings on with the VCA web site. I have no problem with the thread being taken care of, but if you're going to get all bent out of shape about it taking a whole day, then maybe you should take a look at your priorities.

 

[DaJerseyViper]

maybe you should take a look at your priorities.

Says the grown man in a car club..

 

[Free2go]

Come ON ... give the guy a break! He works for a living and travels all over the world. There are actually times that he isn't online, able to monitor every goings on with the VCA web site. I have no problem with the thread being taken care of, but if you're going to get all bent out of shape about it taking a whole day, then maybe you should take a look at your priorities.

Bird, I personally have no beef with the amount of time it took to yank the thread... I do however have a problem with the thread being allowed in the first place with Greg's prior knowledge of it.

 

[Nsane1]

We are being a little dramatic about "not putting members before a fallen tuner." The guy was allowed to post a video that is very cool about vipers that was deleted. Because I don't live to find every failing of RSI, I obviously don't have all the background that you do.

But if anyone wants to be in a leadership role here, we all REALLY welcome it, it would help out a lot. I simply don't have the time to research every post. RSI showed several us on the board the video, we said "damn that's slick post it", we were assured that things are better there now and allowed him to post it. We told him any further discussions (sponsorship, etc.) would come after he made an appeal to the community and gained acceptance.

That's it.

Also moved this to "Ask VCA" since this is now a question of "should RSI be allowed to post" or "is Greg fit to hold a leadership position" neither of which is a Gen5 issue.

 

[Free2go]

RSI showed several us on the board the video, we said "damn that's slick post it", we were assured that things are better there now and allowed him to post it.

Nice...more of the board members were involved in the decision. How inspiring. Greg, I'm not trying to be "dramatic", but the last sentence of your last post looks mighty drama packed.

 

[Nsane1]

Yes Dan and I visited RSI at their request. You do recall the $40k+ that RSI has donated to club members over the years through raffles.

I'm not going to debate this endlessly with you, if you want to chat about this, you have my email phone number...

 

[DaJerseyViper]

Greg, do yourself and the members of the VCA a huge favor and do NOT GET INVOLVED WITH RSI IN ANY WAY CONCEIVABLE at this particular time, this is a bad time to be associated with RSI in the viper community and is a fast track for auto-destruct..That would be the downfall of the VCA and VPA for sure...Trust us on this one.