Be Careful If You Consider Buying A Viper From This Guy

[David Jenkins]

David, enough with the excuses.

[/QUOTE]

Manytoy, you never explained what excuses you thought I was giving. Is that it?

I had no idea what was going on with the transaction between Brian and Shelby until I read this post this morning. I knew the deal was off, but I had no idea what the arrangements were/are between those two.

"At least I can help another Viper owner"??? That's what I was trying to do by helping him sell it. I got slammed by MIKEP for trying to help sell and now you want me to help work it out. I only came on here trying to help resolve the warranty repair questions by trying to provide some kind of educated guess as to why the history shows what it does. I can't wait to log on tomorrow to see what other excuses I'm making.

Fact is, I called Brian first thing this morning after reading Shelby's post.
I advised him, although not by MANYTOY recomendation, to handle it. I now know what's up and that's strictly between them. If Shelby wants people to know, I'm sure everyone on this site will be the first to know.

 

[MichaelP]

David, enough with the excuses.

"At least I can help another Viper owner"??? That's what I was trying to do by helping him sell it. I got slammed by MIKEP for trying to help sell and now you want me to help work it out.

[/QUOTE]

As Janni said before do NOT insult us by rationalizing that an engine rebuild is the same as a minor repair. Do NOT insult us by saying I 'slammed' you for helping someone sell a car.

What I posted about was your statement that YOU would NOT tell a perspective car buyer that the engine had been rebuilt. My post had NOTHING to do with the person selling the car and NOTHING to do with the car in question.

Don't bring your BS trying to twist what people are saying here for you are just digging yourself in deeper.

It was about YOU saying that if YOU were selling a car you would NOT tell someone if the engine was rebuilt UNLESS the person asked you. Personally I would NEVER do business with a person who has this attitude and thinks nothing is wrong with it.

Perhaps there are others here on this board and in the Viper community who find this attitude reassuring when they hand their car over to you.
But I am SURE you will find customers . . . what was it PT Barnum said???

 

[David Jenkins]

[ Brian did not remember why the engine was replaced and the explanation in this thread regarding the transmission still does not make sense.

The engine was repaired, not replaced. It could have been repaired for oil consumption or excessive pinging. I repaired several cars for the pinging under acceleration issue. At first, DC had us sending the engines back for repair. They determined that the pinging was caused by lack of quality fuels in CA and they found that unshrouding the spark plug in the combustion chamber on the head seemed to help.(There's a pointed area in the chamber on the head where the plug threads in) After the first few, the warranty guys determined that is was ok for me to do the repairs without sending the engines back. I would remove the heads and machine down the pointed spot in the chambers.
I have no idea why his motor went back. Could have been for either I guess. Here's the question for all the rocket mechanics out there. Was the pinging caused by detonation or pre-ignition?

I'll try to explain the trans thing again, hopefully without any intent towards the excuse side. The trans may have been removed for another reason other than a bad trans. Lets say, for example,the trans was removed to try and diagnose a drivetrain noise or vibration. If the problem was something other than the trans, the trans that was removed would be reinstalled. It's possible the person that flagged the repair, or in other words, the person who looked up the labor operation number and determined what the tech got paid, could have flagged the operation code for replacing the trans instead of removing and reinstalling. Does that make any better sense?

 

[Vic]

MichaelP, DJ is a great guy, he has worked on my Viper several times, and I have had nothing but the best service and professional attitude, and great results from him and his work. Thats my personal experience with him, so thats all I can say. Have you had any first-hand experience with DJ?

 

[David Jenkins]

quoet-As Janni said before do NOT insult us by rationalizing that an engine rebuild is the same as a minor repair. Do NOT insult us by saying I 'slammed' you for helping someone sell a car.


quote-Don't bring your BS trying to twist what people are saying here for you are just digging yourself in deeper.


MIKEP, I read Janny's post the first time. I guess I'll have to say it again. I didn't mean to insult or degrade the intellegence of anyone on this board.
Especially you. I was just trying to help explain the warranty issues. There's a laundry list of warranty repairs. I was making a point that there was a bunch of warranty work done that the seller didn't tell the buyer about. That's it MIKEP. Obviously an engine overhaul is a huge item. So is a trans.
I didn't mean to insult your intelligence with my deep hole of twisted BS that you say I brought in here.

I guess your right about "not" slamming me for selling the car. I must have taken that the wrong way. You're right, you didn't. I guess the "buyer beware when dealing with Dave Jenkins" part threw me off.

 

[Kiaser]

"Must explain more clearly. If I were selling my car, I would disclose the engine overhaul IF asked."

Engine overhauls and tranny replacements are BIG deals on cars and should be treated as such. If you don't make the buyer aware of this history beforehand, it's easily going to be construed as dishonesty.

What if you were in love with a girl and asked her to marry you, then on the alter she whispers "oh, by the way, I've got 6 kids."? That'd be a big deal too and I'd be pissed.

As far as everything else goes, poor communication will ruin any deal. I can easily see how Brian could be a great guy, and the car may be an excellent item, but sometimes things don't work out. Regardless of this post or not, all Brian has to do is contact the potential buyer and make an effort to get the buyer on good terms so they understand each other. Then if the buyer decides not to buy, I'm sure he'd would be more than happy to post the resolution of the deal online and how it was just a miscommunication.

 

[MichaelP]

MichaelP, DJ is a great guy, he has worked on my Viper several times, and I have had nothing but the best service and professional attitude, and great results from him and his work. Thats my personal experience with him, so thats all I can say. Have you had any first-hand experience with DJ?

Well since you asked. Nope, and I never will use his services on my Viper as I have Larry Macedo, Doug Levin and Sean Roe close by.

Would I have a beer and a laugh with him SURE!.

But even if I lived in CA I wouldn't have him work on my Viper or buy a car for him, after he said: "If I were selling my car, I would disclose the engine overhaul IF asked. dj"

 

[Vic]

Fair enough, Michael.

 

[joe117]

"I would remove the heads and machine down the pointed spot in the chambers.
I have no idea why his motor went back. Could have been for either I guess. Here's the question for all the rocket mechanics out there. Was the pinging caused by detonation or pre-ignition?"

Detonation is detonation. It may be caused by pre-ignition or too much compression for the octane available.

When you grind off the "point" in the chamber you are removing a potential hot spot and also lowering the compression ratio.

Would you tell someone if you modded the engine for lower compression?

 

[Janni]

David,
Your "laundry list" of other items that may have been undisclosed was a direct comparison to the engine and tranny work - in fact, you asked "if he had an alarm module put in it, would it matter" in the same manner it would "matter" about an engine rebuild or a tranny replacement. And yes, that's insulting to a person's intelligence - they are not the same type of repairs.

Again - Arrow rebuild and new tranny (because IIRC DC does not service transmissions, they replace...) would not be deal breakers - esp. to a seasoned Viper owner such as Shelby3, and now that they are known, shouldn't be a deal breaker for anyone else.

I sold my 1996 - I listed that it had a new rear diff - replaced under warranty for it being a little loose in the limited slip portion. I considered it a plus. When we sold Henry's 1996 we listed the new tranny - replaced under warranty for leaking. We also considered that a plus.

 

[Shelby3]

Well I finally heard from Brian last night. He asked me to delete this thread stating that I have accused him of being a fraud and that he is trying to sell a defective car and in doing so am damaging his ability to sell the car. He also indicated that he does not have the money to refund the agreed $1400 of my deposit.

Let me address his assertions. Not disclosing warranty information when selling a car is not fraudulent, illegal or even immoral. To me it's just a poor business practice. So am I asserting that Brian is a fraud or has committed fraud? Nope... Am I asserting that Brian agreed to refund $1400 of my deposit and to date has not done so? Yup...

The second assertion was that I have represented his car as defective. This is not true. His could very well be the finest used 96 GTS on the planet. I'm not afraid to buy a used car that has had major work done to it. The 96 GTS that I did buy is at Macedo's with the engine pulled for a damaged crank. The problem I had with Brian's car is that it has a significant history of warranty repairs that could not be explained by the only owner the car has ever had. This may not be a problem to many, but it is for me.

The only problem I have with Brian at this point is that he agreed to refund $1400 of my deposit, terminated communication without doing so, and did not tell me he did not have the money. So Brian, let’s not attempt to play the victim here.

 

[GTS Dean]

The fact that the tranny, or diff, or engine were replaced under a service contract would not bother me in the slightest. That is - unless I were shopping for a complete, numbers-matching car. The assembly date and VIN are pin stamped on each of these components when the car is assembled. With a late model tranny, you get the upgraded iron shifter forks.

 

[ACELLR8]

How can someone not have the money given as a deposit on a car? That alone would make me never do business with such a person.

I think it is pretty dang generous to give him as much as you did for backing out of the deal when clearly he was not up front about the cars history.

Thanks for the warning for others!!

Ed

 

[Shelby3]

The fact that the tranny, or diff, or engine were replaced under a service contract would not bother me in the slightest. That is - unless I were shopping for a complete, numbers-matching car. The assembly date and VIN are pin stamped on each of these components when the car is assembled. With a late model tranny, you get the upgraded iron shifter forks.

Dean, As I indicated I'm not hung up on major work being done to a car but when the owner can't tell me why it was done and indicates that the warranty history isn't correct, I'm not interested in that kind of deal.

 

[VIPR GTS]

Reading all of this only brings three thoughts to mind:
1. Shelby3 has gone over and above what many of us would do in a similar situation. I respect him for that.
2. David Jenkins seems to have taken a really bad beating from many for just trying to inform the board about what he knew of the situation. I can understand his frustration with what ensued.
3. As a dealership employee, I really dislike the comments that insinuate dealers and their employees are always bad. Just as there are good lawyers and doctors, there are many in this business that are good and honest people who do try to help. Our industry has been changing for the best for quite a few years now.

 

[MOUNTAINWOLF]

Irregardless of all the warranty/repair work done on the car and the disclosing /undisclosing of that information, the issue is now an issue of individual credibility. Brian could have been honest and innocent in not disclosing all the information about the car, maybe he forgot some of the repairs, maybe he did not think they were important, whatever. However, the issue now at hand is the return of the deposit, or at least the amount agreed upon. There is no grey area here. Shelby3 seems to have been very fair in this regard (allowing Brian to keep part of the money). In an effort to sell the car and to save face and his credibility as a person, Brian should do what he agreed to do, and return the deposit money. If he does, the other issues could be looked at as an oversight, and I think (partially because of David Jenkins testimony) someone else on this forum would consider buying the car. If he does not return the money, his credibility is no longer questionable, it is smeared. Do the right thing Brian, something important is on the line here... your name.

 

[Eddie N]

The same type of guy that does not return a deposit is the same type of guy that would not be honest with the history of the car. Case closed.

Eddie

 

[chickenwarrior]

All I've got to say is Shelby3 deserves some good fortune to fall his way...

After losing his 97 in the "no-fault-of-his-own" manner that made us all sick to hear and now this story, I'm surprised he hasn't taken it as a sign that some higher force is not wanting him to have a Viper.

Have you considered one of those blue and white striped Miatas???? Nice!


Seriously, regardless of the agreement, you should get ALL of your money back. It's the RIGHT thing to do.....

 

[Shelby3]

All I've got to say is Shelby3 deserves some good fortune to fall his way...

After losing his 97 in the "no-fault-of-his-own" manner that made us all sick to hear and now this story, I'm surprised he hasn't taken it as a sign that some higher force is not wanting him to have a Viper.

Have you considered one of those blue and white striped Miatas???? Nice!


Seriously, regardless of the agreement, you should get ALL of your money back. It's the RIGHT thing to do.....

I was beginning to think the same thing. However I now have a 96 GTS at Macedo's getting the full Roe blower treatment including heads and cam. Larry and Wendy are great to deal with so I believe my Viper fortunes are changing. By far, most of the Viper owners I have met are some of the best people I know.

 

[Kiaser]

Regardless of how bad the deal was earlier, the fact that he won't give you the money back on your deposit (in part or in full) absolutely without a doubt shows EVERYONE on this forum and in the viper community that Brian IS a fraud. Shelby3 in NO WAY had any part of making Brian NOT give the deposit back, in fact he made it easier for Brian by offering to keep some of it. If that's not doing Shelby3's best to keep Brian in the good light to the other members of the forum, then I don't know what is!

Brian, your CAR might be a beast, but YOU are a fraud... You should be taken out back, beaten, and shat on.

 

[Shelby3]

Just an update on this. I haven't heard from Brian in over a week since he e-mailed me to say he didn't have the money to return the portion of my deposit we agreed on. Wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

 

[Daniel Cragin/DC Performance Inc]

I have known Dave for many years, and he is a stand up guy. His reputation speaks for itself. Hope this all works out.

 

[Shelby3]

I have known Dave for many years, and he is a stand up guy. His reputation speaks for itself. Hope this all works out.

Dan, I hope it's clear that my problem is with Brian Kervick, not Dave Jenkins. I have never had any dealings whatsoever with Dave and am sure he is a fine a fellow as you say he is.

 

[dansauto]

I am a dealer and if a potental buyer backs out of a deal I am not required to give the deposit back. I make this perfectly clear when I accept deposits. This case is a little differant as the seller could not come up with a clear title. Sounds like the seller did not realize how long it would take to get the title. If you buy a car from someone that still owes money on it, you could take still pay for the car and take possession. Go to a notery and get the transfer recorded and wait for the title. Sounds like a lot of miscommunication between two people that do not know how to buy or sell a car. The warrently issues not really not a factor here and the buyer bringing them up shows he is looking for a reason to get out of the deal, but he is willing to accpet a partial refund of the deposit which is fair. The seller should ethically refund that amount, the buyer should goto a dealer next time.

 

[Shelby3]

I am a dealer and if a potental buyer backs out of a deal I am not required to give the deposit back. I make this perfectly clear when I accept deposits. This case is a little differant as the seller could not come up with a clear title. Sounds like the seller did not realize how long it would take to get the title. If you buy a car from someone that still owes money on it, you could take still pay for the car and take possession. Go to a notery and get the transfer recorded and wait for the title. Sounds like a lot of miscommunication between two people that do not know how to buy or sell a car. The warrently issues not really not a factor here and the buyer bringing them up shows he is looking for a reason to get out of the deal, but he is willing to accpet a partial refund of the deposit which is fair. The seller should ethically refund that amount, the buyer should goto a dealer next time.

The deal here was that I would receive a clear title within a week to ten days. Who broke the deal? As far as the warranty issues, would you feel comfortable buying a car that had an extensive warranty history that you were told did not reflect the actual warranty work done on the car? It doesn't appear that you read the thread very carefully.

 

[patgilm]

I'm with you Shelby, you definitely did nothing wrong. It's not like you were looking to get out of the deal, I'm sure you really wanted this car before you found out the history and the inconsistencies.

 

[Hisserman]

Why is it that some dealers are always telling us that we don't know how to buy a car? Isn't it like any other transaction? If both sides are trying to have a fair transaction they will help each other with communication, not play guessing games and hiding information unless it is specifically asked for. Shelby3 went more than half way to keep his side of the bargain.

 

[Shelby3]

UPDATE:

I received a check today from Brian Kervick for the agreed upon refund of $1400 of my deposit. As far as I'm concerned, this makes the deal square and I have no further issues with Brian.

 

[Mike_W]

You are way to nice.

I would ask for all the money back. Had he represented the car truthfully, then I would be inclined to let him keep the deposit. He didn't though.

That is like me taking a girl out and paying for dinner, and then her telling me she is a *******. I'd be like, "You better pay for your half of dinner ****. Either that or learn to **** a ******* real quick. Practice on this or give me my money back."

Er something like that I suppose.

Mike

 

[Vic]

You are way to nice.

I would ask for all the money back. Had he represented the car truthfully, then I would be inclined to let him keep the deposit. He didn't though.

That is like me taking a girl out and paying for dinner, and then her telling me she is a *******. I'd be like, "You better pay for your half of dinner ****. Either that or learn to **** a ******* real quick. Practice on this or give me my money back."

Er something like that I suppose.

Mike

Nice analogy! LOL!