Big problem, need some help

[Carl 2002 GTS]

I've only got 4000 miles on my 02 and have noticed that it's starting to run poorly with a ton of vibration (Actually, I'm not sure it has ever run as good as it should have since I bought it new off the showroon floor). Anyway, at a friend's advice, I removed all of the spark plugs and found that the entire left bank is crudded up. There is clumps of crusty ash-colored build up on all five plugs and even a noticeable amount of oil on the last cylinder plug (I guess that would be the 9 cylinder?). The right side is perfect and shows no problems whatsoever. My recent mods were T&D's and a VEC-1. I can't see how either of these mods would create this asymetrical situation. Is it possible that I have a factory defect in the valve seals in that one head? Has anyone else run across a similar problem? I've got Larry Macedo looking into it for me and am hoping it can be corrected under warranty. Is there any possibilty at all that I could have broken something by driving too hard or is it way to coincidental that there is a problem with all five cylinders on that side? Help, please.

 

[99 R/T 10]

I would take it to the dealer. You should not have to mess with it while it is under warranty. Unless you think the T&Ds may have caused the problem. Hopefully Larry M. can square it up for you.

Mike

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

someone probably forgot to put the valve guides/seals on the one bank of the engine during production. It seems to be a pretty common occurance unfortunately. I'm sure if you saw the people who actually put the engines together you wouldn't be surprised. Not exactly the cream of the crop it seems.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I'm sure if you saw the people who actually put the engines together you wouldn't be surprised. Not exactly the cream of the crop it seems.

Have you? I have met everyone involved in assembling my engine (and car). Rhodes scholars they are not. But they certainly do not deserve your characterization. They seemed very concerned about the Vipers they were building and in satisfying the future owners. To me it seemed they had great pride in both their workmanship and the product they were making.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

I'm sure if you saw the people who actually put the engines together you wouldn't be surprised. Not exactly the cream of the crop it seems.

Have you? I have met everyone involved in assembling my engine (and car). Rhodes scholars they are not. But they certainly do not deserve your characterization. They seemed very concerned about the Vipers they were building and in satisfying the future owners. To me it seemed they had great pride in both their workmanship and the product they were making.

The people that assemble the Viper engines are certainly not going to be the types to assemble the monsters that go into AMG cars. So why the Viper? With the number of stories of valve guide/seals missing on one bank of cylinders I'm forced to question who the hell the people are that are putting these things together.

 

[BACKNBLACK]

Very true Craig..Very common with the new SRT but they have solved the problem now..

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Larry will fix it.

 

[GR8_ASP]

The people that assemble the Viper engines are certainly not going to be the types to assemble the monsters that go into AMG cars. So why the Viper?

You are right. The Viper team members speak English and are American. AMG is German. But how the hell do you know who the types are that assemble either? Or is your Canadian view that any German is better than an American, sight unseen?

Very true Craig..Very common with the new SRT but they have solved the problem now..

I have never heard of this problem with an SRT. The valve issue was a supplier issue, not engine assembly. So please back up your claims with facts.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

The people that assemble the Viper engines are certainly not going to be the types to assemble the monsters that go into AMG cars. So why the Viper?

You are right. The Viper team members speak English and are American. AMG is German. But how the hell do you know who the types are that assemble either? Or is your Canadian view that any German is better than an American, sight unseen?

Very true Craig..Very common with the new SRT but they have solved the problem now..

I have never heard of this problem with an SRT. The valve issue was a supplier issue, not engine assembly. So please back up your claims with facts.

LOL Yes this is because I think Germans are better than Americans. TOO FUNNY!!!!

All I'm saying is that the people chosen to assemble the V-10 cannot be the cream of the crop if they kepp missing stuff like this. You cannot deny that this is not an uncommon occurance.

The people that assemble the V10 are your common UAW worker with a bit of extra training. What kind of industrial background have they come from? People used to bolting on sub-assemblies to commonmobiles should not be assembling these things.

I really wish I could find the article on AMG that I read awhile ago.

 

[jcaspar1]

All I'm saying is that the people chosen to assemble the V-10 cannot be the cream of the crop if they kepp missing stuff like this. You cannot deny that this is not an uncommon occurance.

The people that assemble the V10 are your common UAW worker with a bit of extra training. What kind of industrial background have they come from? People used to bolting on sub-assemblies to commonmobiles should not be assembling these things.

Just be glad that it wasn't a Mercedes worker! Mercedes vehicles have lower dependability than any US car company with the exception of Jeep (which doesn't even make cars). It always amazes me that people use Mercedes as an example of quality built cars. They did beat out Kia, Daewoo and Suzuki...

If people are going to use specific makes as examples of quality, why not use Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln or Acura....not Mercedes!

You must be registered for see images

 

[GR8_ASP]

Craig - SRT engines are assembled at Connor by the same work force that assembles the Viper. Previous years were assembled at Mound Road Engine (except very early engines).

My German comments were a little ytongue in cheek. BTW the German workers are also union. Possibly even stronger union than the UAW.

 

[fe155]

well i never met the guy who put my 2002 "fe" together but he must have thought the nuts that held the front and rear nuts that held the sway bars on were an option he did not see marked on his work order !

 

[SJT97GTS]

While I haven't met anyone from the Conner plant in MI, I have been to many other DiamlerChrysler Plants, Ford Plants, and Chevy Plants. I can say that some of those UAW workers on the line could care less about what the cars come out looking like.

For instance, I was at the Ford Plant here in St. Louis, MO last Wednesday and I witnessed 2 UAW workers asleep on the Explorer/Avaitor final production line, yes ASLEEP on the job (one had his shoes off and feet propped up on the dash of an Avaitor, the other was smoking in a new Explorer).

I'm sure it's a bit different in the Viper plant! At least I hope so! As for quality of Mercedes Benz, I wouldn't want another car PERIOD.

 

[GTS Bruce]

The asian cars kill american cars in quality and the german cars too.Soon the asians will be building real trucks and UAW members will be relegated to flipping burgers.Aren't the space shuttles assembled by uaw workers too?I'd take a sharp stick in the eye before I'd take a ride in the suttle. Bruce

 

[jcaspar1]

If it says Space "Suttle" on the side I would avoid it too!

Actually you couldn't be more wrong in saying that Asian cars "kill" American cars in quality. If you look at the long term reliability, Asian manufacturers nearly dominate the cars worst in reliability. Example: Kia, Daewoo, Suzuki, Hundai and Mistubishi. Japanese cars do quite well but several American makes are better than even Honda. Example: Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln all are more reliable than Honda but you should expect high manufacturers to be more reliable than an entry level brand. The biggest news from this latest study was that European manufacturers have dropped significantly in quality, lead of course by Mercedes who used to be at the top. Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Land Rover all produce cars less reliable than your average Chevrolet/GMC!

P.S. I always thought Toyota said the T-100 was a "real truck"?

 

[Vic]

One thing for sure, Lexus has its act together...

I have always been partial to American cars, cause I live here, and want my country to thrive. I feel a sense of nationalism for my country.

But the last two Cadillacs I bought for my wife turned out to be junk. Too much plastic crap, and marginal engineering.

So after we got fed up with the Sedan De Villes' frequent problems, we got her a Lexus RX 300.

No more problems, no worries, or at least not yet.

 

[treynor]

> I have never heard of this problem [missing valve seals] with an SRT.

I know of at least one verified report of an SRT assembled without valve seals in one of the heads. Q.E.D.

 

[carguy07]

Carl, there was a post on here in the last year with a very similar situation. I can't find the post but the other guy had a whole bank oil soaked and if I remember right was missing seals from the factory. I'll keep looking, he had great pics. Almost sure it was a Gen II...KW

 

[Tiepilot]

"Example: Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln all are more reliable than Honda".

I have A LOT of trouble taking stock in that comment. Show me one of the afore mentioned makes reach 200K miles and still be as tight as it was new, my Civic is. Also my Civic needed NO work done to it at all until 130K miles, nothing but oil and tires, not even a clutch. I don't buy it one bit.

 

[Daniel Cragin/DC Performance Inc]

Seen this problem before, call me.

 

[jcaspar1]

"Example: Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln all are more reliable than Honda".

I have A LOT of trouble taking stock in that comment. Show me one of the afore mentioned makes reach 200K miles and still be as tight as it was new, my Civic is. Also my Civic needed NO work done to it at all until 130K miles, nothing but oil and tires, not even a clutch. I don't buy it one bit.

Just quoting the data. If you have data otherwise please post it. Realize this is for 2000 year models, not those 5-10 years old. I think no one would doubt that Honda's reliability was better then and that Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln were all worse. We still have a ways to go to out do the Japanese but it is nice to see U.S. cars besting the Europeans and Koreans.!
Here is some text that accompanied the data:

"While Japanese-branded vehicles continue to dominate in terms of long-term vehicle quality, the Europeans have lost their edge over the U.S. domestic-branded vehicles, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today.

The 2003 study, which measures problems reported by original owners of 2000 model-year vehicles at three years of ownership, finds that although there is near parity between U.S. Domestics and Europeans in terms of initial quality, substantial quality gaps appear between the Domestics and the Europeans in long-term durability. On average, models by domestic automakers outperform the Europeans by 49 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles at three years of ownership"

 

[carguy07]

Wow, talk about thread jacking! I found that old thread for you.


http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=36489&Forum=All_Forums&Words=read%20plugs&Match=And&Searchpage=3&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=36489&Search=true#Post36489

Good Luck!

 

[Carl 2002 GTS]

Thanks, CarGuy. I actually had the good fortune of being introduced to Tom Sessions yesterday via cell phone. He could name this tune in two notes...no valve seals in the left head. Anyway, he let me know it wasn't life-threatening and to get it fixed under warranty whenever I have the opportunity. The only problem is that I don't necessarily want the dealership here locally messing with it or with my T&D's. I need to get with Tom next time he's in Orlando or I need Larry Macedo to be approved for warranty work.