Bone Stock SRT in the 10's?

[Twister]

I can tell you this MY 08 on one of the fastest tracks in the country ,driven by one of the best drivers in the country could not trap 130 in good horsepower air.Yes MAYBE on an ice cold dense air night it could trap 131-132 then again IF the ZR-1 was run on an ice cold dense air night it could trap 135-136.As Jamie pointed out Pilots with better power on colder tracks create traction issues.Another thing people should realize when driver the caliber of a Furman or a Smith run a car at the track they can tell after a few runs the cars potential .In Evans case after 4 runs in my 08 he knew it was ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS to continue as the car was maxxed out at 11.3 at 129.7.Maybe he could have gotten an 11.2 on a VHT run but it was not worth the abuse on the car.

Jeeze man...Look I followed Evan Smith for years..And i know how capable of a driver he is...But drag raceing is much more track conditions and air than driver..

I had a stock 2004 vette..At the drag strip that thing could run a 13.55-13.65 every single time at 102 mph..It was a 2.73 geared automatic..

After adding mild heads and cam for another 80 rwhp..the car could run a 12.80-12.90 every single time..

I made well over 500 runs with that car...Their was no room for driver error as a 2.73 automatic C5 is arguably the easiest car I have ever drag raced...I even had it down to a science were if I folded the side mirros in the car would consistently be .020 tenths faster...

The point Im trying to make is with absolutely no changes to the car..Absolutely no changes to the driver ( me driving that same so easy 2.73 geared auto)...

SOME DAYS THAT C5 WOULD TRAPP 99.5-101.0 MPH AND RUN 13.75'S BAD AIR)

MOST DAYS THAT C5 WOULD TRAPP 101.5-103.0 AND RUN 13.60'S NORMAL AIR)

AND A FEW TIMES THAT C5 WOULD TRAPP 102.0-104.5 AND RUN 13.50'S

THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE TO YOU IS THAT AS GOOD AS EVAN SMITH IS...PLEASE DONT BASE WHAT YOUR CAR CAN DO OFF OF ONE DAY...

aS i HAVE SEEN MANY 130 MPH STOCK TIMESLIPS FOR 2008 VIPERS RAN BY PEOPLE NO WHERE NEAR eVAN'S TALENT

 

[vipeuup]

Benchracing? You don't even own a Viper and I'm benchracing because I'm talking about price - from 1st hand experience? How old are you, like 12?

Stop going off topic and answer the guys question and for your information he is also a viper owner.

 

[vipeuup]

It is clearly quicker feeling and seems to hook-up easier on the street. I will reserve my judgement until I take my new putter to the local minature golf course.

Great sense of humor

 

[1BADGTS]

Jeeze man...Look I followed Evan Smith for years..And i know how capable of a driver he is...But drag raceing is much more track conditions and air than driver..

I had a stock 2004 vette..At the drag strip that thing could run a 13.55-13.65 every single time at 102 mph..It was a 2.73 geared automatic..

After adding mild heads and cam for another 80 rwhp..the car could run a 12.80-12.90 every single time..

I made well over 500 runs with that car...Their was no room for driver error as a 2.73 automatic C5 is arguably the easiest car I have ever drag raced...I even had it down to a science were if I folded the side mirros in the car would consistently be .020 tenths faster...

The point Im trying to make is with absolutely no changes to the car..Absolutely no changes to the driver ( me driving that same so easy 2.73 geared auto)...

SOME DAYS THAT C5 WOULD TRAPP 99.5-101.0 MPH AND RUN 13.75'S BAD AIR)

MOST DAYS THAT C5 WOULD TRAPP 101.5-103.0 AND RUN 13.60'S NORMAL AIR)

AND A FEW TIMES THAT C5 WOULD TRAPP 102.0-104.5 AND RUN 13.50'S

THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE TO YOU IS THAT AS GOOD AS EVAN SMITH IS...PLEASE DONT BASE WHAT YOUR CAR CAN DO OFF OF ONE DAY...

aS i HAVE SEEN MANY 130 MPH STOCK TIMESLIPS FOR 2008 VIPERS RAN BY PEOPLE NO WHERE NEAR eVAN'S TALENT

My runs were conducted during a private mag test sessions which is a different world than any public test and tune night you were running at .Basically if Smith wishes to he can ALTER ,CHANGE ect the starting line conditions by picking up the phone to suit his needs (at Englishtown they will gladly reprep the line and VHT to his liking )My 08 was there twice and the track was in GOOD condition.(Gary Paterson of Shelby was there to have Evan run their new top of the line Supersnake on one day ) The results on BOTH DAYS WERE WITHIN 1 MPH AND ONE TENTH of each other -MY CAR WAS TAPPED OUT .The 130 mph runs you saw HAD to be conducted in VERY COLD WEATHER .The ZR-1 ran in the same cold weather would easily trap 3-4 MPH faster thats all iam saying .If you doubt any of the above Email me your phone number and i will have Evan call you directly to verify.

 

[Twister]

While I would appreciate a phone conversation with Evan ( as Im a big fan) I must decline..I did lots of research yesterday on this site as well as the other site and drag times and could not find a better than 130 mph trapp for the SRT10 ( though I swear I read of 131 mph touched by 1 or 2 people)

Also while at drag times I noticed that the stock ZR1's have been trapping in the 125-129 mph range...About thesame as the SRT10's..

But their are arguably more SRT10's out their than ZR1's...Ill probally make a list or somthing of my findings..

 

[1BADGTS]

While I would appreciate a phone conversation with Evan ( as Im a big fan) I must decline..I did lots of research yesterday on this site as well as the other site and drag times and could not find a better than 130 mph trapp for the SRT10 ( though I swear I read of 131 mph touched by 1 or 2 people)

Also while at drag times I noticed that the stock ZR1's have been trapping in the 125-129 mph range...About thesame as the SRT10's..

But their are arguably more SRT10's out their than ZR1's...Ill probally make a list or somthing of my findings..

Personally i have never driven or even ridden in a ZR-1.I do know a few people who are owners though .In my humble opinion (formulated from years of playing around with Vipers at the drag strip )Jamie Furman is the BEST driver in the country on stock tires in a Vette or a Viper - his numerious records reflect this .If Jamie says the ZR-1 is noticably faster than a Gen 4 thats good enough for me.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Thanks for the site to look up as Jamies runs are all posted.

Now to unravel the "much better conditions" stated by 1Bad for the SRT.

The ZR1 was run at 55F at a DA of -421
The SRT-10 at 50F at a DA of -915

Clearly not the substantial difference that was implied.

Now for the ringer.
The ACR was run at a DA of +1110. Nearly 1500 ft more than the ZR1, which provided the ZR1 with a significant advantage.

Also, from reading this site, the SRT only had 200 miles on the odometer at the time of the runs. So low that variations in manufacturing tolerance can easily eat up 50 or more horsepower. Absolutely no way to know unless it was dynoed at the time. Other parasitic drag is also highest when in unbroken in condition. So in no way can that represent the best possible. All it means is few with driving capability make runs at such low DA conditions. Obviously most of the US cannot due to altitude.

 

[1BADGTS]

I don't know how you do math? I just looked at 12 timeslips from my runs in my ZR1 and 7 of them are over 131 mph and 5 of those are over 132 and one was 10.82 at 132.88 which is close to 133 mph. Only 4 were under 130 mph and the worst mph was 128.82 and the only other ones under 130 were 129 and change. The average mph is more like 131 for the ZR1 and out of those 12 slips 7 runs were 10.8 or better with one being a 10.7 and 3 being 10.9 and 2 being 11.0's my worst and only run that wasn't an 11.0 or better was the first shakedown run and that was 11.19. Thats like an 10.8 average at 131 for the Z. With the Viper it took 20 runs to get into the 10's and it was the only 10 second pass at 129 and change. I also ran 1 11.01 2 11.05's and 2 11.07 runs and one 11.08 in the Viper, the rest were 11 teens and 20's at anywhere from 127mph to 129 mph, with the best mph 129.8 which was 3 mph slower than my best ZR1 run which was also in worse weather than the Viper ran in. Thats more like an average of 11 teens at 128 average which is at least 3 to 4 tenths and 3 mph better average in the ZR1 than the Viper and I think I have clearly proven that, so lets keep it real! In better weather I will prove the ZR1 is even faster than I have already went. There is one major exception I take in comparison of all these (my dad is stronger than yours posts) and thats most if not all of these comparisons that I am reading are no more than hot air as no one has even had their car at the strip and for sure they haven't had their Viper and their ZR1 at the strip for comparison and I have. I can compare unbiasedly because I own both and I am not a homer to either car so I think my comparisons might be a little more realistic than these virtual comparisons I seem to be reading. I do agree with one part of one of the most recent posts and that is the Z06 is the most impressive of all 3 cars for price and performance.

What dont you understand about the above .Jamie is the EXPERT NOT YOU GR-8.

 

[plumcrazy]

i dont like him, but twister is rain man when it comes to numbers, my money would be on him....lol

 

[99 R/T 10]

i dont like him, but twister is rain man when it comes to numbers, my money would be on him....lol

 

[GR8_ASP]

What don't you understand about the above .Jamie is the EXPERT NOT YOU GR-8.

This coming from the person who stated that altitude and weather conditions have no effect on performance. Deifies physics in NJ he says. And just so you realize Jamie himself said he is no expert. Just does well racing and does not understand what density altitude means and does not track it (his words not mine). Well I hate to tell you but it is a fact that atmospheric effects do impact the performance. And since he posted photos of his time slips you can check the date and track and verify the density altitudes. That data (facts) indicate his ACR may be closer to the ZR1 than even he thinks.

Maybe he should take them to the same track on the same day and make a better comparison. A 1500 ft difference is definitely worth speed and time.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

Thanks for the site to look up as Jamies runs are all posted.

Now to unravel the "much better conditions" stated by 1Bad for the SRT.

The ZR1 was run at 55F at a DA of -421
The SRT-10 at 50F at a DA of -915

Clearly not the substantial difference that was implied.

Now for the ringer.
The ACR was run at a DA of +1110. Nearly 1500 ft more than the ZR1, which provided the ZR1 with a significant advantage.

Also, from reading this site, the SRT only had 200 miles on the odometer at the time of the runs. So low that variations in manufacturing tolerance can easily eat up 50 or more horsepower. Absolutely no way to know unless it was dynoed at the time. Other parasitic drag is also highest when in unbroken in condition. So in no way can that represent the best possible. All it means is few with driving capability make runs at such low DA conditions. Obviously most of the US cannot due to altitude.

Most cannot due to SKILL, not altitude. He has the skills to do it; most others don't. DA and a low mileage engine wasn't the factor here - it was the driver/car, period. The ACR isn't faster than the roadster...he ran a 10.922 vs a 10.79 in a lighter, higher HP car with better suited gearing for the quarter mile. What's so hard to accept about that? It's math/science here - there's no guesswork - only poor suppositions.

You should go prove him wrong yourself...instead of making statements you CAN'T back up. His runs were fact, your statements are not.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Most cannot due to SKILL, not altitude. He has the skills to do it; most others don't. DA and a low mileage engine wasn't the factor here - it was the driver/car, period. The ACR isn't faster than the roadster...he ran a 10.922 vs a 10.79 in a lighter, higher HP car with better suited gearing for the quarter mile. What's so hard to accept about that? It's math/science here - there's no guesswork - only poor suppositions.

You should go prove him wrong yourself...instead of making statements you CAN'T back up. His runs were fact, your statements are not.

I looked up data from HIS runs. Those were his facts. I live at an altitude where no one can run those times. And no I will not go 2000 miles to prove anything.

Physics indicates temperature, pressure and humidity are all factors in how an engine creates power. A 1500 ft difference between test days DOES make a difference. And no person has the butt G meter to know the difference. Especially not second hand 1Bad.

And sionce you cannot read (a characteristic in common with 1Bad) he ran the convertible at only 200 miles on the odometer. A brand new car with untold more potential in it. When something is that new no one has any idea how much more the engine and driveline friction is. But it is an established fact that the friction levels are higher. Even the EPA and SAE recognize that.

 

[bushido]

Most cannot due to SKILL, not altitude. He has the skills to do it; most others don't. DA and a low mileage engine wasn't the factor here - it was the driver/car, period. The ACR isn't faster than the roadster...he ran a 10.922 vs a 10.79 in a lighter, higher HP car with better suited gearing for the quarter mile. What's so hard to accept about that? It's math/science here - there's no guesswork - only poor suppositions.

You should go prove him wrong yourself...instead of making statements you CAN'T back up. His runs were fact, your statements are not.

Dude ****, your the one that cannot except that a $70k Viper convertible can hang with the $115k Zr1..

 

[bushido]

Stop going off topic and answer the guys question and for your information he is also a viper owner.

Don't waste your breath on that ******. With that being said, what did you expect from an avid corvette forum poster?

ridicule-ridicule

 

[Twister]

i dont like him, but twister is rain man when it comes to numbers, my money would be on him....lol

Great..We finally agree on somthing..Now it's time to go watch people's court..yea..defiently peoples court..judge Wap-Ner...

 

[FastestBusaAround]

Dude ****, your the one that cannot except that a $70k Viper convertible can hang with the $115k Zr1..

More bench racing spew and personal attacks from you...boring...

 

[1BADGTS]

Most cannot due to SKILL, not altitude. He has the skills to do it; most others don't. DA and a low mileage engine wasn't the factor here - it was the driver/car, period. The ACR isn't faster than the roadster...he ran a 10.922 vs a 10.79 in a lighter, higher HP car with better suited gearing for the quarter mile. What's so hard to accept about that? It's math/science here - there's no guesswork - only poor suppositions.

You should go prove him wrong yourself...instead of making statements you CAN'T back up. His runs were fact, your statements are not.

Now that is the BEST QUOTE EVER .I would pay anything to watch Jamie *itch slap GR-8 all over the track (it would be like watching the Steelers play a Pop Warner team).The problem is GR-8 races ONLY on his computer,never at the track and has yet to realize the fact that HIS THEORYS AND SUPPOSITIONS dont always apply to a driver of Jamie talent.Gr-8 wake up there are people other than myself who are telling you the same thing.Jamie sets ALL of these records BECAUSE OF HIS DRIVING ABILITY not because of track location or DNA .

 

[jamie furman]

Dude ****, your the one that cannot except that a $70k Viper convertible can hang with the $115k Zr1..

I'm a facts guy and the the facts are Viper convertibles are not 70k, mine msrp'd at 92k and I was lucky to find a dealer (there were many) who couldn't sell his Vipers and I got a good deal. Some ZR1's list for 109k which is within a couple of thousand of an ACR so the prices are fairly close for the top models and finally the ZR1's are getting discounted bringing the prices even closer. I noticed someone mentioned the mileage on my Viper when I ran it, well my ZR1 only had 220 when I ran it and only has 249 miles on it now. And lastly, I don't understand why people can't accept the facts and the Viper guys always have to bash the Vette? When I set the time in the Viper it was my corvette buddy who took the video and posted it on the vette and viper forum and said look the viper is faster than our Z06's a and thats that, and he actually beat me in his Z06 in a heads up run that day on the only pass we made against each other! Nobody on that site got on the thread and wined about getting beat, they accepted it and acknowledged the Viper was faster, but there is always some excuse over here, never any respect for any car but a Viper. Get in the real world and realize they are many, many great looking and performing cars out there and accept reality for what it is, not what you want it to be!

 

[GR8_ASP]

1Bad, Very bad, you are again WRONG. Jamie may be very good, even the best. But location is very important also. If he lived in Denver he would be so far behind the coastal population. You just cannot understand an engine is an air pumping device. Raise the atmospheric pressure and it makes more power. Simple. The SAE even makes an SAE power and torque adjustment to estimate the standard condition power and torque when testing is not at standard conditions. It seems most of the world can figure out that simply scientific FACT (not theory).

That said I do not disagree with what Jamie said. But neither he nor anyone else can say how one car responds to additional mileage. They are not the same, not even the same type of car. It depends on way too many variables such as bore surface, bearing surface, gear finishes, etc. A true test would be to compare cars that have been broken in under the same conditions. This has nothing to do with Corvette vs Viper, but everything to do with having a fair test. Especially with idiots touting results in the absolute maximum difference while ignoring the realities of the test conditions.

And as to you race statement Bad One, I have drag raced many many times. Probably when you were still in diapers. I just do not make a living off touting it. Nor do I live in an area that would create records. But I do road race and would love to see your a$$ out where real cars do all things that cars are made to do. Accelerate, corner, and brake.

 

[KenricGTS]

GR8 you are very correct. I live a mile high and the best drivers run a full second to 9 tenths slower up here. I ran a 12.2 with my Paxton up here that is like a 11.2 sea level. I only had two runs in. I think I could've gotten her in the 11s. 11s up here would be 10s sea level. Jamie what is your best time with the GTR? I would like to know how well they run in the 1/4. Also you should get a Whipple for your GT you will love it!

 

[Dads Toy]

OK, I read through the 6 pages and no one posted that he red lighted on his record run so it does not count if it was a race!

JUST KIDDING. congrats on all of the awesome runs.

I would love to just have a chance to watch you run any of your cars.

Amazing driver.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

@GR8_ASP

I can read - perfectly, and if you really feel the need to speak in such condescending tones because it makes you feel so much more adequate, go right ahead. Fact: He stated that the ZR1 had 220 miles on it when it was run, and you say he had 200 miles on the Viper...which puts them at about equal break-in. Notwithstanding your ever so important DA, his ZR1 beat his Viper times, hands down...

It is quite likely that if you ever did drag race these two vehicles, two things would NOT happen that day -

1) You breaking 11's at any track
2) The Viper beating the ZR1

Unless of course, your DA that day dramatically favored the Viper, or the ZR1 was firing on 6 cylinders.

I think you need to change your screen name to GR8_ASS instead...seems far more appropriate.

Perhaps you need to go do some diaper changing to pass the day - maybe that'll make you feel better about Vipers NOT beating ZR1's...

So nice chatting with you again -

 

[1BADGTS]

1Bad, Very bad, you are again WRONG. Jamie may be very good, even the best. But location is very important also. If he lived in Denver he would be so far behind the coastal population. You just cannot understand an engine is an air pumping device. Raise the atmospheric pressure and it makes more power. Simple. The SAE even makes an SAE power and torque adjustment to estimate the standard condition power and torque when testing is not at standard conditions. It seems most of the world can figure out that simply scientific FACT (not theory).

That said I do not disagree with what Jamie said. But neither he nor anyone else can say how one car responds to additional mileage. They are not the same, not even the same type of car. It depends on way too many variables such as bore surface, bearing surface, gear finishes, etc. A true test would be to compare cars that have been broken in under the same conditions. This has nothing to do with Corvette vs Viper, but everything to do with having a fair test. Especially with idiots touting results in the absolute maximum difference while ignoring the realities of the test conditions.

And as to you race statement Bad One, I have drag raced many many times. Probably when you were still in diapers. I just do not make a living off touting it. Nor do I live in an area that would create records. But I do road race and would love to see your a$$ out where real cars do all things that cars are made to do. Accelerate, corner, and brake.

I understand all about how climate and track altitude influence power (i also love your new nickname that you quite rightfully have worked hard to earn )You can convilute the issue all you want the ZR-1 is the quicker car untill someone comes along and beats Jamies time .

 

[1fast400]

I'm still trying to figure out who leaves a performance car stock? With that said, who gives a **** stock for stock. It doesn't effect any of us. If you're going to run a ZR1 at the track, you'll be under the same conditions and you'll find out for yourself. Air does make a big difference. At rockingham's national event this year, I had to adjust the dial-in on my stocker by .1 of a second. That was running at the SAME track on back to back days. It felt the same as the day before, figured it was .02 faster. Nothing like drilling the brakes and still being .06 under.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

Lots of us do leave performance cars stock - at least when we're talking about stock vs. stock, we have a baseline to start with.

 

[GR8_ASP]

@GR8_ASP

I can read - perfectly, and if you really feel the need to speak in such condescending tones because it makes you feel so much more adequate, go right ahead. Fact: He stated that the ZR1 had 220 miles on it when it was run, and you say he had 200 miles on the Viper...which puts them at about equal break-in. Notwithstanding your ever so important DA, his ZR1 beat his Viper times, hands down...

It is quite likely that if you ever did drag race these two vehicles, two things would NOT happen that day -

1) You breaking 11's at any track
2) The Viper beating the ZR1

Unless of course, your DA that day dramatically favored the Viper, or the ZR1 was firing on 6 cylinders.

I think you need to change your screen name to GR8_ASS instead...seems far more appropriate.

Perhaps you need to go do some diaper changing to pass the day - maybe that'll make you feel better about Vipers NOT beating ZR1's...

So nice chatting with you again -

You sir are the newby around here and have joined in with one of the best known anti-Viper guys around. No one has said that the Viper would win. We were contesting the spread that 1really bad states. And has stated over 1000 times on these pages. He has also contested in the past that weather or pressure has anything to do with trap speed based on his runs in ancient times (which he will bring up over and over again as proof of his personal superiority). So If I came down on you it was because it looked for all intents and purposes that you were his namesake. I can see now that you are not as you have the art of spelling down. Whereas 1BADMOFO cannot spell for anything. And has the logic of a child, making logical argumentation a total waste of time.

You completely missed the point of the low mileage. It was not to indicate the Viper would win. It was that an evaluation before break-in only proves what a non broken in car will do. It does not say much about what would happen later. Way too much variation in new, un broken in condition. For both vehicles.

By the way, using names as you indicated is cause for removal from this site. Keep it up and someone will catch on. Ask 1Baad. He has been reminded many times about his poor internet behavior.

 

[bushido]

I'm a facts guy and the the facts are Viper convertibles are not 70k, mine msrp'd at 92k.

Come on Jaime.

08-09 Viper convertibles
Find Your Car: Dodge Viper Listings Near Monterey, CA 93940 - AutoTrader.com

08-09 ZR1s
Find Your Car: Chevrolet Corvette Listings Near Monterey, CA 93940 - AutoTrader.com


Now, I never said that the Viper convertible was faster than the corvette, but it's right up there not far behind it. IMO, I think that the ZR1 is defitnetly in a class of it's own. Due to the significant price difference..

 

[1BADGTS]

You sir are the newby around here and have joined in with one of the best known anti-Viper guys around. No one has said that the Viper would win. We were contesting the spread that 1really bad states. And has stated over 1000 times on these pages. He has also contested in the past that weather or pressure has anything to do with trap speed based on his runs in ancient times (which he will bring up over and over again as proof of his personal superiority). So If I came down on you it was because it looked for all intents and purposes that you were his namesake. I can see now that you are not as you have the art of spelling down. Whereas 1BADMOFO cannot spell for anything. And has the logic of a child, making logical argumentation a total waste of time.

You completely missed the point of the low mileage. It was not to indicate the Viper would win. It was that an evaluation before break-in only proves what a non broken in car will do. It does not say much about what would happen later. Way too much variation in new, un broken in condition. For both vehicles.

By the way, using names as you indicated is cause for removal from this site. Keep it up and someone will catch on. Ask 1Baad. He has been reminded many times about his poor internet behavior.

Of ALL the thousands of runs EVER conducted on sea level tracks in favorable DNA by GEN 4 Vipers exactly one person and one person only has been able to run in the 10s -WHY. You personally have NEVER EVER seen a driver the caliber of a Smith or Furman run (if you have name them and the individual records they hold running stock tires )Some years 75-100 drivers would show up to race at a NE Viper Zone event at Englishtown (thats right 75-100 )All of these 75 would be running the SAME TRACK ,SAME DA ,SAME DAY ect.The net result would ALWAYS BE THE SAME =Evan and Jamie at least a half second quicker than everyone else.(IF you doubt what iam saying VCA officials like Bob Carrol and Joe Houss witnessed this YEAR AFTER YEAR.)Guess who the driver Ford SVT choose to work with their engineers for the DRAGRACING development regarding the new Mustang was .Also guess WHY they choose him over EVERY other driver in the country .You are what your records or records say you are.

 

[1BADGTS]

GR8 you are very correct. I live a mile high and the best drivers run a full second to 9 tenths slower up here. I ran a 12.2 with my Paxton up here that is like a 11.2 sea level. I only had two runs in. I think I could've gotten her in the 11s. 11s up here would be 10s sea level. Jamie what is your best time with the GTR? I would like to know how well they run in the 1/4. Also you should get a Whipple for your GT you will love it!

No one is saying you would not pick up MPH and lower ET but put these BEST DRIVERs you speak of on any track in the country in any weather you want and they still will not run 10s in a stock GEN 4 Viper.