Brake upgrade questions (Dave's or Brembo)

[72hemi]

I want to upgrade the brakes on my 2001 ACR and I have narrowed it down to 2 kits: Dave's big brake kit with Gen 3 calipers on all 4 corners and 2 piece rotors (cost between $3k and $4k) or Brembo Gran Tourismo kit with 6 piston front calipers and 4 piston rear with 2 piece rotors (cost roughly $7k). I understand both kits use Brembo calipers. I have a couple of questions.

1. Will I need to run an manual adjustable proportioning valve on either kit?

2. What is the benefit of the 6 piston calipers compared to the 4 piston?

3. How difficult is it to locate replacement Brembo pads, and rotors if I did go with the Brembo kit.

4. What benefit is there for the extra $3k-$4k for the 6 piston Brembo kit compared to the Gen 3 conversion?

5. Can I use the stock BBS wheels on either kit?

6. Will there be a problem with the stock spare with either kit?

7. Are both kits a direct bolt on?

8. How do I hook up the parking brake on the Brembo Gran Tourismo kit?

9. Which kit weighs less?

Thanks in advance. I only want to make this expenditure once. As for what the car will be used for; primarily the car is driven on the street, but since it had Penske 8300's installed prior to me getting the car and now going in the shop for 3.54 gears and Borla exhaust, and that it is an ACR, I have a feeling I will be spending some time on the track (road course of course, not dragstrip).

 

[01sapphirebob]

From most of the stuff i've read I would say save yourself the $4k and go with the DBB KIT. Everyone that gets it just raves about it and wonders how they ever drove their cars without it.

 

[dave6666]

1. You do not need the pro valve on the DBB kit.

5. Pretty sure depending on the rotor diameter - 13" vs. 14" - that will play into that. You will probably need wheel spacers on the back. I did the 14" SRT on my '01 but have 19/20 wheels. No spacers or clearance issues.

6. Get the spare tire wheel spacer from DBB. I have one but don't carry it or the spare. I carry the SRT inflater. Saves 30 pounds.

7. The DBB kit is but you have to modify the rear hub carrier casting. Saw time...

9. The DBB SRT kit with 14" Euroteck rotor actually increase the weight by about 20 pounds. But I have an incredible amount more braking so... Can only guess the Brembo branded kit depending on rotor choice is a similar weight gain within a few pounds or so. I do have the exact weight figures of everything if you want to see them on the DBB upgrade I did.

Of course you know that DBB is now Parts Rack.

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[dave6666]

PS... ONLY get the ss braided lines from BDD/Parts Rack. They are the only ones that have the correct brackets to my knowledge. They fit perfectly.

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[72hemi]

Thanks. A couple more questions.

How readily available are rear hub carriers and what do they usually cost?

Being new to brake upgrades who makes a better rotor Euroteck or Coleman?

And yes I was aware that DBB is now Parts Rack.

 

[Leslie]

Jonb sells the Stoptech kit at an unbelievable price! You don't need to spend 7k. It had everything I needed.....calipers, rotors, lines, fluid, pads, e brake.
I have the 6 piston fronts, it's a lot of brakes, 4 pistons are plenty.

Pads are somewhat limited but they are all great choices...PFC's, Hawk's, etc.

I prefer more break up front on my GenII, 80% of your braking is done there and to me it feels more 'balanced'...I don't want as much brake in the back!

Go with LIGHTER 2 piece rotors like the stoptechs-less rotating mass weight

I personally would never run spacers on the track.

 

[72hemi]

Thanks Leslie.

Is there a comparison of weight and strength for the various 2 piece rotors (Euroteck, Stoptech, Coleman)?

 

[LifeIsGood]

Affirming Dave's answers...

1. Will I need to run an manual adjustable proportioning valve on either kit?

Not with your ABS viper.

6. Will there be a problem with the stock spare with either kit?

You will need a spare tire adapter with the DBB kit...

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7. Are both kits a direct bolt on?

The DBB kit requires cutting the ears off of the rear hubs.

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[dave6666]

Here's a closeup of the cut hub without the saw still there as above. If you take your time it looks factory. The only reason you'll need a new set of hubs is for the rewind button...

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Here's the SRT inflater...

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[72hemi]

Thanks for the pictures. I would want a set of hubs for the rewind feature, in the event I decided to go back to stock. I have heard the purpose of the manual proportioning valve is to help with the problem of the rear end coming around under heavy braking is that a true statement and does it apply to ABS cars?

 

[dave6666]

http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/622256-srt-brake-upgrade-weight.html

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[dave6666]

ABS works well. I test it all the time

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[72hemi]

Thanks Dave. I didn't like the idea of cutting into the brake lines to install a proportioning valve (I would have made new lines in the event I wanted to convert back to stock).

 

[72hemi]

Has anyone done a 60-0 stopping comparison (especially on an ABS car) of the stock brakes to either kit?

 

[moparracing]

Jonb sells the Stoptech kit at an unbelievable price! You don't need to spend 7k. It had everything I needed.....calipers, rotors, lines, fluid, pads, e brake.
I have the 6 piston fronts, it's a lot of brakes, 4 pistons are plenty.

Pads are somewhat limited but they are all great choices...PFC's, Hawk's, etc.

I prefer more break up front on my GenII, 80% of your braking is done there and to me it feels more 'balanced'...I don't want as much brake in the back!

Go with LIGHTER 2 piece rotors like the stoptechs-less rotating mass weight

I personally would never run spacers on the track.

i went with the same 6 piston front/4 piston rear kit from jonb on my '97 GTS & absolutely love it..... no wheel spacers or need for the porportioning valves either.... these cars are unsafe on the stock braking setup.

as far as pads, lots to choose from:

Zeckhausen Racing

Zeckhausen Racing

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Jonb sells the Stoptech kit at an unbelievable price! You don't need to spend 7k. It had everything I needed.....calipers, rotors, lines, fluid, pads, e brake.
I have the 6 piston fronts, it's a lot of brakes, 4 pistons are plenty.

Pads are somewhat limited but they are all great choices...PFC's, Hawk's, etc.

I prefer more break up front on my GenII, 80% of your braking is done there and to me it feels more 'balanced'...I don't want as much brake in the back!

Go with LIGHTER 2 piece rotors like the stoptechs-less rotating mass weight

I personally would never run spacers on the track.

Stoptech X2. I had the 4 wheel big brake system put on my 2000 and loved it. I'm also a track rat and they were great around a road course. Also the pads were easy to change at the track, you don't even have to take off the calipers. 14.2" rotors in front and 13" in the rear.

 

[KNG SNKE]

60 to 0 stop with Daves BBK was phenomenal. I did a before and after and it was night and day. The SRT calipers are just a huge all around improvement. If money is not an issue and you plan on tracking your car a ton, go with stop tech or an equilevelant. If you want cost efficient performance which is still great on the track save money and go with Daves BBK. I can tell you stomping the pedal in my car from 60 to 0 even without my abs kicking in it felt like I dropped 2 anchors out the rear of the car.

 

[97snk]

I might have the DBB front brackets and rotors brand new going on sale soon. I m upgrading to 15 inch custom bracket and 15 inch rotors...

 

[Jance GTS]

I might have the DBB front brackets and rotors brand new going on sale soon. I m upgrading to 15 inch custom bracket and 15 inch rotors...

"Cuz I'm the One Upper".....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmWu-N1-oq0[/media]

 

[Jance GTS]

Off topic question... Will non abs calipers work on a Viper that already has abs? I have my 2000 calipers for sale but they would be going on a 2002 Viper? Thanks!

 

[TexasPettey]

If cost is a factor for you, I'd do SRT fronts and stay stock on the rear. I don't think that you'll get much benefit from larger rear brakes on a '01. You'll also get to keep the stock ebrake setup. I did my Dave's SRT front conversion for just over $1K( kit + used calipers + used rotors). For street use, I don't think you'll get much better than that setup. Tire traction will quickly become the limiting factor. I know that Tom sells a rear caliper cover that closely matches and makes the appearance pretty good, but it won't be as good as fully matching calipers.

If you are looking for track benefit, spend more $ on cooling the brakes. Brake ducting is the best $ you can spend for the track. You'll also save money in the long run by replacing pads less often.

 

[72hemi]

Whatever kit I end up with I want it to be a matched set and well balanced, so no stock rear calipers or moving the front caliper to the rear. While cost is somewhat of a factor, brakes are a huge safety feature and I won't compromise on safety for a couple of grand. I will definitely work on cooling the brakes as well. I want to look at running ducts through the fog light openings.

Another question, has anyone done a hydraboost conversion on a gen 2?

 

[Leslie]

Whatever kit I end up with I want it to be a matched set and well balanced, so no stock rear calipers or moving the front caliper to the rear. While cost is somewhat of a factor, brakes are a huge safety feature and I won't compromise on safety for a couple of grand. I will definitely work on cooling the brakes as well. I want to look at running ducts through the fog light openings.

Another question, has anyone done a hydraboost conversion on a gen 2?

I agree with Texaspetty, get some cool air to those brakes!

Gen III's up front and stock front calipers in the rear is a good balance for a GenII.
I have found bigger brakes up front work better. Or get the 6 front/4 rear.

Cooling ducts will go thru holes you create in the front fascia.

 

[vancouver-gts]

I did 14" all corners with the DBB kit from JonB. I was hesitant to modify the braking system with the Willwood proportioning kit [ not legal on the street ] so I tested the car with the spring in the OEM PV unit intact. The bias was too much for the rear with the 4 piston calipers and the rear wheels locked up pretty quick. Next, removed the spring from the PV [ less pressure going to the rear] and the car did the front lockup very quick like it was with the factory setup.Found some coils with exact gauge and spacing at my work and made a few, cutting shorter and shorter each until I felt the bias pretty close.Now my brakes feel balanced without early front lock up.After driving hard for a 100 miles or so, there's noticably less brake dust on all four wheels ,with slightly more showing still on the front ones. I still think it was pretty dumb of Chrysler to setup early non ABS cars the way they did.

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[AFL in NJ]

Dear John,

I start my brake replacement with minor upgrades tomorrow morning and my plan was to ask you to do side by side 60-0 stops to see what my setup benefitted me against stock....but it appears you won't be stock for long.

I just bought DBB/JonB hard lines, Hawk High Performance Street pads and powerslot slotted rotors and Valvoline Sythetic Dot3/Dot4 fluid to do only a minor upgrade on feel, stopping power and less dust.

My only concern now is twisting the rear caliper piston in, supposedly it is a PITA.

Regards,
Aaron

 

[72hemi]

My brakes will be stock for a little while, but other parts of the car won't. Goes to Toddy's in the morning and will be ready for me to pick it up at the open house on the 7th.

 

[dave6666]

+1 on ducting the brakes via holes added in the fascia and NOT the foglight holes. Sean Roe took pressure measurements there and at speed those holes actually go slightly positive. Meaning air flowing out, not to the brakes.

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[KNG SNKE]

twisting the piston in is easy. Try with a c clamp first, sometimes it generates enough pressure to twist. If not go buy the 10 dollar tool to do it.

 

[72hemi]

Very interesting, I guess below the fascia the ducts will go.

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear John, Cool! I am planning to do headers sometime in the summer, and I already have Borla from the previous owner, so maybe we're actually taking the ACRs close to the same planned changes.

Dear Dave6666, After seeing the innovative how-to's you've done over the years I believe you about placement of the cooling ducts, where do you suggest for a GenII? There are the upper and lower formed openings in the front fascia, would those be good?

Dear Kng Snke, That's my plan to use the c-clamp, hopefully that goes very smoothly.

Regards,
Aaron