C6 Corvette to **** the doors off competition- By Bob Lutz

[Nexus-6]

Craig is 100% correct - competition is ALWAYS good. Period.

The man does have to **** his new gig. If he didn't - AND the C6 was anything less than stellar - I'd be dissapointed.

If they can get the weight around 2800-3000lbs and nail their HP targets then the C6 will be a wild machine. The Z06 C6 will be a crazy machine.

 

[whip383]

I'll be in line for a C6 when it comes out. I think the corvette is an awesome car for the price. I'm not selling the Viper, but adding to the stable.

Chan

 

[Snakester]

I think that Bob Lutz has been great for GM.
GM has slipped into a rut that has generally been producing bland (or awkward) designs for a while now, and Lutz is really a car-guy who wants to make better, faster, more stylish cars.

It is true that for a novice driver, the Z06 is easier to drive fast. Only better, skilled drivers will reveal the extra capability that the Viper has (as opposed to many auto journalists).

The original Viper was designed with passion, and Dodge had the Viper lead the whole company to design and build better cars, moving up from the bread and butter K-Cars to some really sporty sedans.

The Corvette is Chevy's flagship car, and Lutz is right to throw some serious technology into it making a high performance car that will have an improved interior, be lighter, and have better handling as well as accelleration.
And at under 3000lbs with 500HP, the C6 Z06 WILL be faster than the Viper IF it sets still as a fixed target (like the NSX has).

Daimler/Chrysler raised bar on the Viper's performance, but went more conservative on the body design. So the Viper is NOT the exotic concept car that it originally was, and I think that DCX does need to have an outrageous variant of the Viper built.

Sure, the Viper is currently at the top of the performance car heap, especially considering it's a full convertible, and priced under $90K.

But Ferrari has their Enzo, Mercedes has their SLR, Porsche has their Carrera GT, and the higher mark to hit for the future is 3000 lbs and 600HP+.
Certainly the Ferrari 360 is slower and more expensive than the new Viper, as is the Lambo Gallardo, and Porsche Turbo and GT3. And they are likely to take the heat of the $50K C6 Corvette even harder than the Viper because of the greater price difference.

But I do keep having the feeling that DCX has moved the Chrysler cars to the back seat of the Daimler empire, as merely an outlet for lower cost Mercedes parts/sales.

Where is the AMG (PVO) version of the Viper with twin turbo 700HP V10 that would shout exotic from the mountain tops?
If they really wanted to DCX could build a super-Viper in a heartbeat, and still keep the price under $100K.

And such a killer Viper flagship car would make it so the C6 Z06 and Ford GT could no longer be called "almost as fast", or faster in the hands of a better driver.

Is there someone at DCX who is listening (and is a car-guy like Lutz) who could make this happen for the Viper?

-Dean.

 

[Walt McFarland]

Let's review:

-The corvette was America's performance icon until the introduction of the Viper in 92. Since then, it has been all us.

-DC has done a decent job keeping the Viper in front. The SRT-10 is way ahead and will continue to lead at least until the introduction of the C6 Z06 which is still a couple of years away. Ample time for DC to introduce a thorougly tested and faster coupe.

-DC is positioned to stay ahead--not a bad place to be in this modern age of supercars--and they should get a lot of credit.

-Will they stay ahead? We'll know in the next 2-3 years. Until then, I'm thinking the best. Our market niche is all about being first. I think the DC team knows this.

 

[joe117]

"The Corvette (for GM) is their cash cow. A car produced for the masses."

I don't think so. I think it's a flagship.
I don't think GM makes much if anything on them.
If they did, why don't they make more?
The dealers can't get all they want. They make money on them.

 

[Vipersrule]

I don't get the $25K price difference argument. Just basing 2002 prices - the vettes that I was seeing at the Chevy dealer were listing for $60+K (and that's not a Z06). 2002 Vipers are going for $60 - $70.

Do we really believe that the new C6 - Z06 version is going to be anything less than $70K?

 

[HOLD TYTE]

I can understand all of your comments regarding tracking the two cars but for the majority of viper owners street driving is the norm. On the street the viper is king and the Z06 is so far behind that they will have to make serious power improvements just to keep up.. The viper will always be king of the street. On the track, the comp coupe would slaughter the Z06, now unfortunately they havn't slapped a license plate on that car yet but when they do it will take GM years to catch up.....

 

[96 GTS]

And if the Z06 version of the C6 is not enough to do it, we've got a few tricks up our sleeve, which we're already investigating.

If they got the tricks why are they still investigating?

Let it be known that we Viper owners have a few "tricks" up our sleeves too!

 

[ChrisGTS]

Sorry guys, I just don't think the C6 will approach the SRT-10's performance. I used to have a Z06, and I know a lot of Corvette people, and I have seen so many public statements from Corvette design team people (Dave Hill, especially) that it is not GM's intent to build the Corvette to compete with the Viper. They have a niche selling a car that costs $50k and has performance that is slightly less than a Viper. With that niche, they sell 30,000 cars per year. Why change the formula?
I also don't see GM shelling out big bucks to make the C6 radically lighter than the C5. Recall that when the Z06 came out, GM was beaming about a 150lb weight reduction. 150lbs is definitely significant, but I think there is no way we will see a 2800 pound Corvette.
So, my guess is that the C6 coupe (the only style released for 2005) will weigh 3150 lbs (which is about 100 lbs less than now) and will have 380 hp. I would guess the C6 Z06, whenever it comes out, will weigh just over 3000 pounds and will make 425 hp.
Don't get me wrong. I think the Z06 is a great car, and nothing would make me happier than to see a 500hp Corvette come off the GM assembly line in Bowling Green. I just don't think that is GM's goal.

 

[fluffy]

I think you're going to be surprised. I fully expect 425 and 500 for the base and z06, but I guess we'll all know in about three months.

 

[slaughterj]

Sorry guys, I just don't think the C6 will approach the SRT-10's performance. I used to have a Z06, and I know a lot of Corvette people, and I have seen so many public statements from Corvette design team people (Dave Hill, especially) that it is not GM's intent to build the Corvette to compete with the Viper. They have a niche selling a car that costs $50k and has performance that is slightly less than a Viper. With that niche, they sell 30,000 cars per year. Why change the formula?
I also don't see GM shelling out big bucks to make the C6 radically lighter than the C5. Recall that when the Z06 came out, GM was beaming about a 150lb weight reduction. 150lbs is definitely significant, but I think there is no way we will see a 2800 pound Corvette.
So, my guess is that the C6 coupe (the only style released for 2005) will weigh 3150 lbs (which is about 100 lbs less than now) and will have 380 hp. I would guess the C6 Z06, whenever it comes out, will weigh just over 3000 pounds and will make 425 hp.
Don't get me wrong. I think the Z06 is a great car, and nothing would make me happier than to see a 500hp Corvette come off the GM assembly line in Bowling Green. I just don't think that is GM's goal.

I fully agree with those performance expectations you forecasted. IF that is all that occurs, Dodge MIGHT be able to get by with the next step being by 50hp plus minor weight reductions, like each of the previous, but that may not be enough and won't be if the C6 #s are any higher, necessitating a 100hp step (at least) and weight reductions.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Remember the Cadillac XLR uses the C6 chassis. It weighs over 3500lbs. Remove the folding roof and add light seats....does that make a 500 lb reduction? The Cadillac uses aluminum body panels too. SMC and thermoplastics are usually heavier. Yet, all these rumors will probably push DC to make a (street legal) coupe, if not already planned.

 

[proracer1]

We are in big trouble...My good friend is the CFO for McLaren. They are doing the engines for the C6. Unless DC does something big I mean BIG the Corvette will **** the doors off the SRT.......427 cubic inch small block close to 600 HP

 

[fluffy]

Too far beyond the realm of believability. A 600hp N/A mouse? On a street car? Come on. It's almost certain that the LS2 engine will pull 400-425hp out of 6 liters, and the LS7 will pull 475-500 out of 6.4 liters with three valves per cylinder, and that's what the GM line has been dancing around ever since last year. The idea of a 7 liter 600hp monster is just too much, and nothing official or in the corvette circles has even hinted at it.

But if it's true, I'll buy a C6.

 

[Nexus-6]

We are in big trouble...My good friend is the CFO for McLaren. They are doing the engines for the C6. Unless DC does something big I mean BIG the Corvette will **** the doors off the SRT.......427 cubic inch small block close to 600 HP

No fooling?

 

[Mopar]

Remember the Cadillac XLR uses the C6 chassis. It weighs over 3500lbs.

No, it uses the C5 chassis. The C6 chasis is said to be made out of aluminum, never the less the XLR is based on the dare I say "outdated" C5 platform.

 

[Mopar]

I don't get the $25K price difference argument. Just basing 2002 prices - the vettes that I was seeing at the Chevy dealer were listing for $60+K (and that's not a Z06). 2002 Vipers are going for $60 - $70.

Do we really believe that the new C6 - Z06 version is going to be anything less than $70K?

Base Corvettes going for $60K+ Wow, that has to be a $20K markup because you buy a '04 Z06 LESS$50K, and base models range fron $45-$52K with options.

Maybe that was some dealer trying to screw someone with a 50th Aniv. car?

 

[monnieh]

C6 Z06 with a 427 sounds might fine to me. I love corvettes. But I love Vipers more.

However said Z06 might make me switch back to Vettes. If Lutz wasn't there I saw this is all bunk. But Lutz should NEVER be underestimated.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Gawd, how young are you guys? Maybe I'm just tainted from hearing GM hype for decades. But even if they do FINALLY come through the GM Blind Faithful still have Dodge to thank for it. Without the Viper none of these mega HP wars would have ever started.

Bring it on GM...and your welcome.

 

[Vipersrule]

Base Corvettes going for $60K+ Wow, that has to be a $20K markup because you buy a '04 Z06 LESS$50K, and base models range fron $45-$52K with options.

Maybe that was some dealer trying to screw someone with a 50th Aniv. car?

Now that you mention it - I think the 60+K was the 50th Aniv. car. I didn't really waste that much time looking at the details. I own a Viper.

 

[fluffy]

No, it uses the C5 chassis. The C6 chasis is said to be made out of aluminum, never the less the XLR is based on the dare I say "outdated" C5 platform.

The XLR and C6 share the same platform. There were rumors initially that the C6 might have aluminum side rails, but those were just rumors, not fact.

From Motor Trend:
'David Leone, chief engineer for the Cadillac XLR, wants us to clearly understand that his 330-hp luxury/sport roadster is not a Corvette-neither in content nor in purpose .... "It's a luxury car with performance-car roots," explains the affable Leone, "and it's also the first vehicle off the next-generation performance architecture." But he knows that ignoring the car's Corvette connection is impossible .... the XLR will be built in the same Bowling Green, Kentucky, plant that assembled the 33,655 Corvettes sold last (calendar) year. It has essentially the same hydroformed frame-rail construction as the Vette. The two will share body and paint shops, but will be assembled on different lines. He also acknowledges that many of the same electronics, suspension, body structure, braking, heater/ventilation/air-conditioning, and even some driveline components will serve in the next-generation C6 Corvette (the current car is internally dubbed C5).'

The shared C6 and XLR platform has not been a secret, with Dave Hill confirming it on multiple occasions.

 

[Snakester]

Joe,

I believe that the C5 Corvette has actually been profitable for the last 4 years, and the Z06 has made up 25% of Corvette sales for the last 3 years.

Chris,

I think that you are right about the regular C6 coupe's weight being around 3150lbs, and I suspect that the C6 Z06 will be around 100lbs lighter than the current Z06 which would put it around 2950lbs.

The XLR does share the C6 chassis, and I don't think that 100lbs weight savings off of the current C5 cars is to difficult a goal to reach.

But with the Mustang Cobra nipping at the Corvette's heels now with 400HP, I think that the regular C6 Corvette will have between 425-430HP, and that the LS7 Z06 will actually have 500HP.

I do believe that what Lutz is hinting about IS a 550HP+ 427 Corvette. I do think that it is possible, but I think that the key to the C6 Corvette's success will be keeping the price down. And I suspect that the regular C6 Vette will be starting under $50K, and the C6 Z06 under $65K.

A 600HP 427 Vette is certainly possible, but not likely for under $100K. So they may build a super-Vette, but probably not. Knowing GM.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Dear ***** Lutz,

Was is los mit du, ziss ist yur gutest freund Wolfgang ober at Das Chrysler building? Vat do you mean by zayin yur Z06 will gesucken da doorz offen a Viper? Are you Nutz ( ja ,I jest made a funnknee und I think I vill know call you ***** Nutz ), our Sooper Snake will gesmacken yur kleine Corbutt ( my Englisch ist not sew good) into toast right now. By das jahren 2007 vin your kleine V8 ist gemachen 500 horses , ve will be at 700 gestompen hoof power --- und ve vill have torque up da whazoo!!! I take ze challenge you grossest girlie man, sew don't mess vit us cause ve are ViperNation Uber alles.

Wolfie

 

[ViperJoe]

Yawn.........

 

[MannyC]

What have the prototype bodies looked like? Have they shown em at any shows?

 

[monnieh]

lame, like a restyled C5

 

[scottgf]

I still marvel at the fact that my Viper (Bone Stock 94 RT) can stand toe to toe with GM's best Vette (Z06) and its TEN YEARS OLD!!.
And we also must give props. to Lutz for us having Vipers at all.
Cheers,

 

[Snakester]

What have the prototype bodies looked like? Have they shown em at any shows?

The first planned show for the C6 is the January '04 Detroit auto show.

Here are some more pictures:

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I wouldn't expect to see a huge styling difference on the C6 from the C5, but you can see the new headlights peeking through in a couple pics, which are supposed to look like the Ferrari 360 headlights.

-Dean.

 

[Moundir]

$hit If plan on buying the new C6 as a daily driver, so it better not be over 50k

 

[Nexus-6]

Gawd, how young are you guys? Maybe I'm just tainted from hearing GM hype for decades. But even if they do FINALLY come through the GM Blind Faithful still have Dodge to thank for it. Without the Viper none of these mega HP wars would have ever started.

Bring it on GM...and your welcome.

heh...you said taint.