Thank you Jon .If i do remember correctly ViperSmith was in DENIAL over that one .
CAAP: When does it come back online to begin producing 2015s?
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If I were the head of Dodge and foresaw a windfall in the Hellcat, it would make sense to shore up my halo car and make about 300 factory supercharged 820 hp Vipers designed to destroy the Nordschleife. They would all be sold in 1 day and the legend would be reborn.
The cars would be sold in one day alright but it would cost Dodge millions upon millions in research and development money to sell those 300 cars The record might only stand for a few months because that motor in the Z06 Vette is greenlighted to 850 horsepower (It has passed all driveability ,durability and emissions to that powerlevel) Chevy has an existing car already that they can throw big money at because they make big money from it we dont
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Interesting. Have you looked at the air intake system and intercooler on the Z06 up close? Take a look.
The intercooler system is inadequate to maintain the power level and, as a result, the engine will heat soak quickly on an 80 degree day. And that is at the current, 2015 power level. If you do not believe me, ask your GM contacts to show you their heat soak test results.
The old Z06 is going to prove to be the more durable road course car. Not as fast during the first few laps, but after heat soak sets in on the new Z06 we will see. So what you will see in the magazine road tests will be a one lap wunderkind result. But in actual 25 minute or longer segments, the Viper TA will dominate.
The intercooler system is inadequate to maintain the power level and, as a result, the engine will heat soak quickly on an 80 degree day. And that is at the current, 2015 power level. If you do not believe me, ask your GM contacts to show you their heat soak test results.
The old Z06 is going to prove to be the more durable road course car. Not as fast during the first few laps, but after heat soak sets in on the new Z06 we will see. So what you will see in the magazine road tests will be a one lap wunderkind result. But in actual 25 minute or longer segments, the Viper TA will dominate.
Slight chance if so they got the money to fix it we dont I witnessed the testing of the Ford GT prototype and i cant believe GM didnt notice large amountsof heatsoak as thousands of hours are involved in every climate imagionable (who told you that probably someone from Ford or Dodge knowing you would post it- come on Bob. ) As far as perf numbers they are telling me (heatsoak and all )nothing under 500k can touch that car in overall performance esp with that auto tranny they got .Every performance category from the ZR1 was beaten .I have the acceleration and skidpad numbers and when you guys see them its hard to believe an 85 k car can do that I will not get into specifics but if you were to drag race any stock Gen Viper against it driver for driver with the Viper getting a .7 second head start the Viper would stilll lose-auto tranny(My last stock Viper ran 11.2 ) . I dont care for it personally but you got to respect the capabilitys it has I live in Monmouth County NJ and i must pass 50 new vetts a day . Dont be suprised with minor upgrades (pulley and tune) you see 9 second quarter mile passes and the skidpad numbers are also off the charts despite the tire size (i was told they spent a ton on the chasis dev )
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As I said, have you inspected the car yourself? I did today. And as I also said, ask your GM contacts what the heat soak data shows. In particular, ask them at what temperature the heat soak testing was done. The Hellcats were tested at 100 degrees outside temperature. Very simple thing to do. Just do it. Either they will answer you or they will not.
I promise i will definately ask .My contacts are more Ford than GM but they all know each other (.The test drivers ect ) As far as temp i know its done at EVERY TEMP on Earth .Thousands of hours of it all data logged.I saw one of the hundreds of tests done on the Ford GT Prototype in 03 and you wouldnt believe what they made my buddy do to the thing for days
You are still confusing durability and relaibility with power loss due to heat. An engine can lose power and still be very durable and reliable. For example, all you have to do to understand this is look at the stock controller mapping timing changes dialed in for higher inlet air temperatures and controller mandated rich A/F that is used to cool the catalytic converters down when they get hot. Both things reduce power significantly.
kratedisease
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How about the bickering, debate, and arguing regarding the SPECULATION of the capabilities of the Z06 ends......
And let's just watch to see if 1BADGTS is correct AGAIN. ( he got the rebate info correct )
And let's just watch to see if 1BADGTS is correct AGAIN. ( he got the rebate info correct )
So basically the stock bottom end is rated to 850 hp. From what I have read, the blower in this new Z06 is smaller than the ZR1's and would be spinning too fast at that amount of horse power.
Yes. It is a smaller volume supercharger that spins at a much higher RPM and, because of this, reliability would suffer if it spins much faster. For those of us used to seeing a bump it is odd. It is basically flat across the engine. To reliably get to 850 they would have to somehow either toughen up the supercharger or use a different one. I believe a few months back there was an article about the fact that the new Z06 was not going to be capable of being as easily reliably modified as the ZR1 due to the difference in the supercharger. They went to a high RPM, smaller volume supercharger to increase throttle response. This fact was stated by a Corvette engineer.
No the entire motor (stock blower )can EASILY GO to the 850 hp range if GM chooses with minor tweaking
Bob my guys are laughing at me for even asking them (What Ford or Dodge car club guy came up with that one on the internet) All of them heatsoak but the Z06 isnt going to do it more than the Hellcat and vice versa Driver for driver on a 90 degree day there is not a chance in HELL the old Z06 is going to beat this car in any type of race (drag ,road ect) .I will go one step further driver for driver NOTHING EVER PRODUCED in America can beat this car in any type of race (drag road ect )The amount of money (bought tech ) GM put into this car is mindboggling considering the pricepoint .From what i understand every roadcourse they ever ran one on they set a new production record .The tests should be out within a few months you can read for yourself . PS Ford though may have something up their sleeve for it coming fairly soon
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Tell them to put up the heat soak data or shut up. Data talks. BS walks. I say the Hellcats will heat soak far less at 100 degree outside temp than the Z06. I saw both engine bays and saw the differences in the intercooler set up. The Hellcat system is superior. If it is so funny they will not mind posting their data. The best quarter mile time with an eight speed auto they have gotten so far is 10.9. That means with a quick shifting auto tranny the Gen V Viper would be right with it. It also means the seven speed stick variant and the six speed SRT Viper will be a good drag race to watch if both cars are driven by skilled power shifters. As for a road course, let's see what the cars do against each other in real races not Magazine one or two lap events.
Bob do want to wager on the fact that the best quarter mile time to date is only 10.9 (i know someone who BEAT that time already easily )Let me give you specifics The fastest documented time for ANY STOCK VIPER on stock tires is Jamie Furmans 10.9 (on Video )The fastest documented time for any STOCK VETTE on stock tires is Jamie Furman 10.78 ZR-1. Hello Bob the new Z06 is FASTER than 10.78 i know for a fact Its trap speed is also higher than what Jamie ran .Chevy will tell you the new Z06 is faster than the old Zr-1 .Driver for driver tranny for tranny there is no way in the world a Gen 5 is within 3-4 tenths of a new Z06 (Bob 3-4 tenths in a ton in a drag race) Lol i know exactly what the car has run and your theorys are WAY OFF If you think iam lying put some money on your conviction that the car only runs 10.9. Dodge states a Gen.4 only runs 11.5 at 127 how did Furman run 10.9 at 130 .Chevy will also tell you a stock Z51 runs 11.9 second quarter miles .My buddy mag tested and got an 11.4 out of the thing at Englishtown .
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Question and Answer
1. I recently ran a 10.85.
2. Why do you try so hard to to be negative.
1. I recently ran a 10.85.
2. Why do you try so hard to to be negative.
The performance numbers will arrive and they will probably be better than the Gen V. Most people expect that. Then the new ACR will arrive and best those numbers. Back and forth they go....all the while people will continue to be fascinated when they see a Viper.
So true! I don't even notice a corvette anymore...doesn't matter whether C7 or C4 thru C7...I just don't notice them. Now, put a Viper on the road and everyone rubber necks to see what it is. FACT!!!
There will always be something faster coming down the pike. I have owned multiple supercars throughout the years (many Vipers, Corvettes, Porsche Turbo S, multiple Ford Gts, Ferrari 430, Ferrari 458, Audi R8 V10)...there will always be something faster. However, I will never own another Corvette. They just don't do it for me.
You just have to "love" a car and it is hard to find something sexier than a Viper. I can't wait to get back into another one in the Spring.
Bone stock in a Viper on stock tires .If they were DRAG RADIALS or the car was MODDED IN ANY WAY it dont count Iam not being negative iam being realistic .For the past 20 years i have an extensive drag racing background involving all STOCK PRODUCTION AMERICAN CARS including providing cars for magazine tests when needed .My Gen 4 Viper still has has the fastest published time on record and that only ran an 11.2 .My Gen 2 for years was one of the fastest NA Vipers in the country on pump gas If you got a 10.85 on totally STOCK Viper running STOCK TIRES you missed your calling .Say the word ill get you an interview with McMullen Argus Publications to drive for them (Iam pretty sure you could subcontract for one of the big 3 also ) Any driver that can easily beat Jamie Furman ,Evan Smith should be paid as between the two of them they hold virtually ever quarter mile record in the book for stock American cars on stock tires.(The past 20 years all generations Vetts, Vipers, Mustangs, Ford GT ) Jim Campasano is the managing editor for Muscle Mustang Fast Ford,Super Chevy ,Mopar Perf Illust ,GM Hi tech Campy no doubt will be interested in any driver that can beat Evan Smiths time by close to 4 tenths car for car. Jack Rousch would also be interested as Smith won his class in last years One Lap of America driving for Rousch. John Coletti (former head of Ford Svt and the father of the Ford GT )does freelance work he may look your way as well.
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Because thats all Chevy got out of the car doesnt mean its not faster than a 10.9 FOR A MULTITUDE OF REASONS. All Ford could get out of the FGT Prototype was 11.3 untill they gave the car to Evan Smith at Englishtown and he got a flat 11.0 out of it Get that engineer to explain the fact that Furman ran a 10.9 IN THE OLD ZO6. Bob stop with the total HOGWASH ,DENIAL and EXCUSES. Google DRAG RACE TIMES .COM as all the verifyed times for every STOCK CAR ON STOCK TIRES are listed .Explain how Furman got a 10.9 out of the old Z06 and the new one is much faster but the new one only runs the same ET as the old one.(Iam going to take a guess here and say same day, same track the new car will have a trap speed 7plus MPH faster than the old one) Bob google Jamie Furman runs 10.9 in STOCK 2006 Z06 Corvette on stock tires. As i posted before DODGE MARKETING claims a Gen 4 Viper only runs 11.5 at 127 .How did mine go 11.2 at 130 .How did Furman get his to go 10.9 at 130 .Bob do you know how much 6tenths is in a drag race How can it be that Dodge only got 11.5 out of the car. Anybody who has ever drag raced ANY 600 hp car on stock tires will tell you ITS ALL IN THE DRIVER ,TRACK, AND CLIMATE A 10.9 in Detroit on a 80 degree day with some average Chevy test driver is a mid ten at a sea level track, great driver ,cold temp The reason John Coletti gave the FGT to Evan to run at Englishtown was because he knew the car was capable than more that the 11.3 his guys at Dearborn got out of it .( Any car that traps at 131 should go 11.0) Once this new Z06 is released (pro drivers, get seat time- good weather ,fast tracks )i GUARANTEE you will see MID 10S at 134mph plus easily with the thing. Some drivers MAY have done that already but i cant comment on that. Ialso cant comment on the fact that with a pulley and tune the thing may be capable of 9s. I know Bob in your mind Chevy WASTED 10 MILLION to develop this thing and the old cars is just as fast (On another topic in a post didnt you write that in your opinion- due to heatsoak on a hot day the old NA model would be just as fast around a roadcourse as the new model When i called my source at Ford with that theory he LHAO for 5 minutes and told me not to try to rationalize with guys partial to a model who sit behind a computer instead of actually racing at the track. In accordinance.Chevy should have just kept the old model then and saved themselves 10 million or so. As per your claims, theorys, hypothesis ect how are these engineers going to ever tell management that their cars performance is slower than the previous model after they dropped 10 million in corporate money to dev it. Has there been a single time in the past 30 years that a new model of a superperf car didnt outdo the previous model.
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Aint going to happen To produce an ACR capable of beating that Z06 Dodge would have to spend MILLIONS If there is an ACR it will be MINOR BOLT ONS as (for the hundredth time )theres no money in the budget to touch anything on the motor brakes drivetrain .The cars on the verge of being cancelled and you think Dodge is going to spend MILLIONS throwing good money on top of bad (ALL R@D PLUS TESTING )to produce 50 ACRs. Chevy makes MONEY with the Vetts and thats what its all about Like i knew about the Coupon Pricing iam telling you guys to stop dreaming .Theres no money in this car for Dodge any longer
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The only problem with your theory is that Dodge already produced an ACR variant for SEMA which, with a few tweaks can be produced and sold without recertification. The car at SEMA, even with a few tweaks, if run at the Ring would beat the record currently held by the Gen IV ACR. So, assume they produce a limited edition of 50 or 100 of them with the same tires used on the new Z06 or their Pirelli equivalent. We know those tires produce far better grip on a road course. SRT already tested a TA with them. That would not cost Dodge much at all. Same drivetrain. Less weight. Much better aero. Much better tires. Probably with a new suspension tune.
And, if Dodge also finally releases an off road open code controller for sale through MOPAR to those who are track rats, many members here are going to be very happy.
And, if Dodge also finally releases an off road open code controller for sale through MOPAR to those who are track rats, many members here are going to be very happy.
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Let's face it, the performance numbers are close. So close that the driver makes the difference. Why even argue. When you strip away the numbers, all that remains are the looks. Years ago I was online looking for a sports car in my budget. My wife walked in and said "hey baby, if you get a Corvette I'm not going to talk to you". That's really what we are talking about here....why settle for a Vette when for a few extra bucks you can drive a Viper.
Texas1
Enthusiast
Well said!!!
Yes I agree. In addition to owning an awesome car, I also love its exclusivity. If they sold anywhere near as many vipers as vettes I wouldn't want it anymore. Prob most viper owners also love its exclusivity, but that is what is going to be its demise as well.
I have been reading this thread from the start and i MUST AGREE with 1BADGTS ! I love Vipers and have owned many, however, its not the car it used to be. I see this word being used here, exclusivity, way to often. With all the trim options and color options for the viper of course they are exclusive, DA. The new Z06 will be VERY EXCLUSIVE . There will be less Z06's then the total Viper production for the given year. I like real numbers and the VETTE does just that, delivers the numbers. I must say for the most of you being car guys not liking the new vette just makes me laugh. The new vette is awesome in design plus backs it up with performance numbers, really whats not to like about that if you really are a car guy. Man up and give credit when credit is due. I will say the same for the Viper when dodge delivers at the price point they are at because right now their not even close. I would like nothing more then to see the viper be what it was when I bought my first one, dont think it will happen but I never say never. Dodge, do what GM did to the Vette to the viper and i promise to be a buyer.
Chevy has done a good job on the performance of Z06 to match power numbers of the Gen 5 (even if the Z06 needs a supercharger!
) But the back of all the Corvettes looks exactly like a Camaro. There will be thousands of these CORVETTE/CAMARO hybrids built, including some Z06s. Most with automatics for the crowd that can't drive a stick. So much for exclusivity! 
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