Car and Driver *****.

[BlackSnake99]

No duh, right. Anybody seen the November issue? Cover story is 'The Battle for America's Best Sports Car!'. Its the Corvette Grand Sport against the GT500.

In my cursory read I see NO MENTION of the Viper. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I mean.... please.

I guess C&D didn't want to humiliate the Bowtie. The Corvette won BTW.

 

[GTSnake]

It's not just C&D. Basically all the magazines over look the Viper in most of their comparisons. For some reason they don't like to compare it to the Vette. Maybe they don't want to make the Vette look bad since GM probably has a bigger advertising budget than Chrysler.

 

[All Blue ACR]

You mean the magazine

Corvette and Driver

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Check out the new Motor Trend. Reviews on the new Grand Sport Vette, only 1000 will be made and 0-60 in 3.9 sec. for 57k. More important is the article and pictures of the new Mclaren 600 hp beast. 225-250k and 2 seats (no center seat like the old). Its really cool looking.

 

[kwiksilver]

You mean the magazine

Corvette and Driver

I thought it was Cry and Drivel.

 

[Warfang]

It's not just C&D. Basically all the magazines over look the Viper in most of their comparisons. For some reason they don't like to compare it to the Vette. Maybe they don't want to make the Vette look bad since GM probably has a bigger advertising budget than Chrysler.

As someone who have consulted "ads for content" companies... this is 100% true. Nothing is ever overtly "ordered," but plenty hinted by the advertiser and enforced by the editors. I've said this before... count the number of ads for GM cars vs Chrysler cars... it's pretty obvious then.

 

[WILDASP]

I thought it was Cry and Drivel.

Pretty good description! However, what I'd like to know is, what's the GT500 doing in a comparo for "America's Best Sports Car", especially when the same magazine noted in its own review of the 2010 GT500 convertible that "...the GT500 is not a sports car" ?? Hmmmm, sure doesn't look consistent to me; but, perhaps when you consider your job to be shilling for Ford and GM, being consistent is not exactly a priority. Whatever. I think I'll file this one where I usually file the opinions of magazine writers - under "Irrelevant and Worthless".

 

[Dom426h]

it seems like every month a round of magazines come out someone has to start one of these threads.

here is one from last week: http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-srt10-coupe-discussions/630024-where-viper.html

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Vic]

I'm learning not to take ANY media source seriously. Dont expect truth from them, and you wont be dissapointed.

C+D is actually pretty funny, though. Maybe you could look at it as a humor magazine.

 

[VIPRRR]

Well GM is ********** because Dodge has made The True American Muscle Car with 1/100th of the R&D dollars that GM spent on the Vette, which with all its Nanny controls my 90 year old mom could drive it. Thats why I bought a Viper. Everytime I looked at who was driving a Vette it was a women or a fat old man, neither could handle the snake.

 

[BlackSnake99]

it seems like every month a round of magazines come out someone has to start one of these threads.

Sorry I felt like I 'had to start one of these threads' but this seems like a different issue than the thread you point out. That article was a ridiculous mishmash of cars from several categories. The article was about the Great American Sports Car, which the Viper arguably is, certainly more so than a Mustang, which is actually a Pony Car. Seems to me the Vette and the Viper are the two true American Sports cars.

I guess if you don't feel like this breaks any new ground, don't read it.

Sincerely,

Someone.

 

[Goehner]

I'm learning not to take ANY media source seriously. Dont expect truth from them, and you wont be dissapointed.

C+D is actually pretty funny, though. Maybe you could look at it as a humor magazine.

Yep, I actually think C&D should be right next to National Enquirer.

 

[1BADGTS]

Guys it DOES NOT WORK how you think as ALOT of times a mag may want to include a car in their tests and quite simply can not get one from a parent car company or a private source in the timeframe alotted.The test goes on without that car included.

 

[GTSnake]

Guys it DOES NOT WORK how you think as ALOT of times a mag may want to include a car in their tests and quite simply can not get one from a parent car company or a private source in the timeframe alotted.The test goes on without that car included.

So you're saying that if C&D wanted a Viper to test and compare that they can't get one? They're based out of Ann Arbor which is only an hour away from Chrysler HQ. Even if corporate didn't want to offer a test vehicle that no one in the Detroit area would volunteer their vehicle to use? I believe MI has like the 3rd or 4th most Viper population in the US.

 

[BlackSnake99]

Guys it DOES NOT WORK how you think as ALOT of times a mag may want to include a car in their tests and quite simply can not get one from a parent car company or a private source in the timeframe alotted.The test goes on without that car included.

I am sure thats true. I would think, and I have seen this done before, that they would say that they tried to get a tester, but were unable. Just for the sake of completeness. I guess the mistake is thinking of these guys as automotive JOURNALISTS, though thats how they describe themselves.

 

[Phun70]

I'm gonna call

Guys it DOES NOT WORK how you think as ALOT of times a mag may want to include a car in their tests and quite simply can not get one from a parent car company or a private source in the timeframe alotted.The test goes on without that car included.

 

[Next Phase]

I don't know why a Viper would be included in this test.... it isn't in the same league or price point. Even if it was in the test, do you think the idiots at C&D would choose it as a winner? They would cry about it not being a daily driver and probably place it last.

C&D and Motortrend are giving away subscriptions right now....(I think my last offer was $12 for 2 years)

 

[96GTS]

Exactly! The Viper would beat the Mustang and Vette in every performance category, but come in dead last every time. You would read how the Vette felt vaque and how it seemed like it was on the edge, but it was the best damn car ever made. It's like the same people write the same review every so often and say the exact same thing as before. These people are idiots, and they just don't get it.

I have a subscription to only 1 magazine (Viper Quarterly) because the rest is biased garbage.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Heck didn't they give the GT500 some points because it had a back seat? C&D has been going downhill for years, ever since they fired Brock Yates. A bunch of weenies.

 

[WILDASP]

Exactly! The Viper would beat the Mustang and Vette in every performance category, but come in dead last every time. You would read how the Vette felt vaque and how it seemed like it was on the edge, but it was the best damn car ever made. It's like the same people write the same review every so often and say the exact same thing as before. These people are idiots, and they just don't get it.

I have a subscription to only 1 magazine (Viper Quarterly) because the rest is biased garbage.

This is true. Most of the supposedly "unbiased" tests/reviews from these rags are about as useful as the non-functional, vestigial mammary glands adorning the belly of a male hog.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

I respectfully disagree with the comment that maybe Chrysler could not have gotten them a car. Knowing the folks that are in SRT Marketing now, there is no doubt they would have gone to great lengths to accomodate. It is stated as above.........advertising money equals exposure.

 

[hou99gts]

If they would have said "America's favorite sports car around $50,000", I would have been less disappointed when I got my copy in the mail a few days ago.

 

[ViperGal]

Well GM is ********** because Dodge has made The True American Muscle Car with 1/100th of the R&D dollars that GM spent on the Vette, which with all its Nanny controls my 90 year old mom could drive it. Thats why I bought a Viper. Everytime I looked at who was driving a Vette it was a women or a fat old man, neither could handle the snake.

Throat clear ... ah... real women can handle the snake and drive a Viper! (I suddenly have this image of Selma Hayek from Dusk to Dawn....)

I know - pulling on another current thread - the Viper is too exotic to be consdiered for this article.

... and remember - we hold the 'ring record so we know the truth.

Did anyone thing the cover picture looked a little strange?

 

[1BADGTS]

Lets see over the years i have PERSONALLY been involved with MANY test reports OF OUR Vipers and other DODGE PRODUCTS with McMullan Argus Publications(Super Chevy ,Muscle Mustang Fast Ford ,GM HI-Tech) .My involvement involved procuring Vipers and other Dodge -Chrysler products for TESTS ,SHOOTOUTS ect ect WHEN FACTORY CARS WHERE NOT AVAILABLE so please dont tell me how ENTIRE PROCEDURE WORKS as iam dealing in FACTS not opinions here.Let me give you an example here in 2001 GM Hi Tech was SUPPOSED to get a New Viper Coupe from Dodge on a part DATE to run against a new Z06 .THE VIPER was delayed ,the test date was blocked off and the mag had to go to a PRIVATE SOURCE IF THEY WANTED A HEADS UP FORMAT.(This was the same test in which VCA Pres J Houss car was used.)NO MATTER THE PUBLICATION certain cars are not always available on blocked off dates .

 

[1BADGTS]

So you're saying that if C&D wanted a Viper to test and compare that they can't get one? They're based out of Ann Arbor which is only an hour away from Chrysler HQ. Even if corporate didn't want to offer a test vehicle that no one in the Detroit area would volunteer their vehicle to use? I believe MI has like the 3rd or 4th most Viper population in the US.

I'm gonna call

You guy are too funny you think because a test is conducted near Chrysler headquarters the testing mag is assured of getting a Viper on a part day or week .IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT as certain protocalls and variables involving procuring cars on blocked off dates must be followed.Mags typically follow 3-4 month lead times test to article.If a new model comes out (for example )the SAME CAR is usually passed from mag to mag to test .(DODGE does not simply supply a new Viper to any mag who asks for a test. Car and Driver ,MotorTrend ect all usually test the same car )Delays involving such things vas weather ,mech problems ,travel ect can and do happen all the time .A lot of these cars are also WHIPPED by the time a mag gets them .(In 1997 when Smith ran the 11.7 in a stock Gen 2 \Mopar Perf was the last of 4 mags to get that car and it was pretty beat .Other times virtually new cars are provided))

 

[GTSnake]

Yes, that's true if it was a new model. Chrysler sometimes gives them fast feedback cars that weren't even built at full production rates. The Viper has been out for how long? So any type of article being written in the past 5-6 years there should be no problem finding a Viper available for some comparison testing. If they really made the effort to procure a Viper for testing I'm sure Chrysler would accommodate unless they gave them no lead time.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Lets see over the years i have PERSONALLY been involved with MANY test reports OF OUR Vipers and other DODGE PRODUCTS with McMullan Argus Publications(Super Chevy ,Muscle Mustang Fast Ford ,GM HI-Tech) .My involvement involved procuring Vipers and other Dodge -Chrysler products for TESTS ,SHOOTOUTS ect ect WHEN FACTORY CARS WHERE NOT AVAILABLE so please dont tell me how ENTIRE PROCEDURE WORKS as iam dealing in FACTS not opinions here.Let me give you an example here in 2001 GM Hi Tech was SUPPOSED to get a New Viper Coupe from Dodge on a part DATE to run against a new Z06 .THE VIPER was delayed ,the test date was blocked off and the mag had to go to a PRIVATE SOURCE IF THEY WANTED A HEADS UP FORMAT.(This was the same test in which VCA Pres J Houss car was used.)NO MATTER THE PUBLICATION certain cars are not always available on blocked off dates .

Yep, I am sure that Super Chevy , Muscle Mustang, Fast Ford and GM HI-Tech are on the top of the list for priority for Dodge Marketing. Now how to extrapolate that to major magazine coverage is more than a stretch.

I share the feelings of inadequate coverage. But so many things have affected marketing plans like a bankruptcy, impending sale of Viper, government involvement, etc. that is impossible for those of us with no knowledge to derive a reasonable understanding of why things are as they are. remember that the magazines now are based on evaluations performed in June and July. The future will state it was not the best of times.

 

[Darbgnik]

I have a subscription to only 1 magazine (Viper Quarterly) because the rest is biased garbage.

LOL, that's my pick for unbiased

Guys it DOES NOT WORK how you think as ALOT of times a mag may want to include a car in their tests and quite simply can not get one from a parent car company or a private source in the timeframe alotted.The test goes on without that car included.

While that may be true, that wouldn't be the reason it wasn't included in this test. Obviously the slant on the article was "Best American Sportscar Thats Almost Affordable to Most"

Also doesn't change the fact that advertising dollars play a part in all business decisions. And no I don't think the Viper needs to be in every magazine test.

 

[Bluvenm97]

Sorry I felt like I 'had to start one of these threads' but this seems like a different issue than the thread you point out. That article was a ridiculous mishmash of cars from several categories. The article was about the Great American Sports Car, which the Viper arguably is, certainly more so than a Mustang, which is actually a Pony Car. Seems to me the Vette and the Viper are the two true American Sports cars.

I guess if you don't feel like this breaks any new ground, don't read it.

Sincerely,

Someone.

Not to be too argumentative, but the since GM and Ford weren't bought out by a European automaker, the case could be made that they are more "American "

Now if you really want to get technical, Ford is the only American car company left that isn't under control of a fascist government at this point...
Go Ford...

Car and Driver still *****...

 

[TrackAire]

Advertising dollars sway results in what might be highlighted but how do you explain all the coverage that Ferrari, Lambos, Maserati, etc get in these mags? Don't see too many ads for these cars.

The last real news for the Viper Gen IV was 2007 and a lot of press happened with the new 600 hp car. Then the Gen IV ACR got some good coverage. But the reality is if Viper doesn't have any real upgrades or changes, the editors will just be testing the same car they did 2 years ago.

The one thing editors are dying for is new product, content, etc to help put them ahead of their competition. If tomorrow Dodge announced a twin turbo ACR with active suspension and 200 lbs lighter weight, you don't think it would get major press? Advertising dollars don't me squat if the magazine can't prove its readership numbers to be able to charge the ad rates they want. Circulation is what they need, then the ad dollars will follow.

That's why you see so many cars in Motor Trend, C&D, Road & Track that have never advertised or will advertise. They need the cool cars to get people to keep buying the mag.

I'd love to see more Viper stuff included in shootouts, tests and comparisons, but until you see some sort of update or change in the model, don't hold your breath.

Cheers,
George