Car&Driver:ZR1 beats the Viper...again

[Next Phase]

I want a Gen V... Not as much now after it got beat by the ZR1. I was contemplating stepping up to one next year, but will wait to see what the next step for SRT is. May even get a ZR1 instead???Bottom line...we all wanted more performance. I'm glad to see it beat the Z in acceleration runs, but I'm disappointed in the track numbers.
BTW, previous tests showed 11.2 @ 130 mph for the Z in an earlier test in C&D. Potential for the Z is amazing....tune, pulley and exhaust and the Z would ass **** the gen V.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

The ZR1 is a very very good machine but Imho the Gen V GTS setup just needs a better brake and tire package. As was stated on the other thread by very knowledgeable track rats its likely the tire and brake issue. Two seconds is well with in the range for mpsc to make up if SRT were to shod the Viper with a similar tire. Both issues hurt the Viper in the tests. In all likelihood SRT just has to address those two issues and this discussion would be vastly different. I think at this point we would be glad to just be tied with the 4 year old ZR1 than be 2 seconds down because of apparently easily fixable issues. Which says a lot.

The Vette is certainly functional, but sure is uuuugly.... Hideous!

 

[ferraritoviper]

I'm no automotive engineer but I suspect that part of the problem is that the ZR1 has an advantage with the weight distribution over the axles especially in the rear by having 7" more wheelbase on the same length car.

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I'm no delicatessen owner either, but the rear of that ZR1 looks like it got sliced off...like a peice of bologna. I'm buying my Gen V for its looks, style and uniqueness...which obviously leaves out ALL Corvettes, Wursts and Ricer's.

 

[Simms]

Any comments/tweets from SRT on this second comparision?

 

[SnakeBitten]

I think Ralph shouldn't say anything about this one at all. His last tweet kinda backfired a bit. Sort the Viper out and let it do the talking. Best way to respond IMHO.

 

[SRTLEN]

"I'm no delicatessen owner either, but the rear of that ZR1 looks like it got sliced off...like a peice of bologna. I'm buying my Gen V for its looks, style and uniqueness...which obviously leaves out ALL Corvettes, Wursts and Ricer's." [/QUOTE]

I looked at the Z06 and ZR1 more than once before deciding and my wife and I always thought the vett butt looked like a block of cheeze sliced off!! I think that's the car's weakest styling point.

 

[JAY]

Given the Gen 5 is still in it's first inning , I wouldn't take these early reports to seriously ! JMHO

 

[ACRucrazy]

Some of you guys cry too much. $110K isn't "expensive" for what you are getting. You can also still park a pristine Gen ONE Viper right next to a ZR1 and make the Corvette become invisible.

This.

Tell you what. If one of you guys buys a new Viper, and turns out you don't like it. Give it to me! I'll take it off your hands!!

This too

So in summation, people that will never reach these lap times are upset because someone else reached didnt reach the lap times. It loses in MT test to Pobsts ACR time by .5 seconds, so I guess the ACR is a slow piece of **** too, since it lost by 1.5 seconds to Randy's ZR1 time

Everyone is complaining the Viper "isn't a real Viper" but CD and MT have stated it is still raw and they are still scared to push it to the limits.

Christ, you all should just buy Ariel Atoms and stop whining. There is your engine slapped to a frame.

That x 3

Again, there's no excuses. SRT need to work right now for an improvment for the car. The Viper should beat the ZR1 at least at something, but it's not,
at every point and at bigger price tag.
I readed some guys talking about Viper limitations by Fiat. I hope they're wrong. But until now, it seems they're correct.
I'm hoping for a light when the ACR come out.

Agreed

With the new 3.55 gears the viper pulls 4th gear to 138 mph, then it shifts to 5th gear with a .77 ratio. IT FALLS ON ITS FACE.
That is why the 0-150 is slower than the Gen IVs. The older vipers can pull 4th to 160+.

The ZR1 has better 5 th gear ratio and less drop in RPMs from 4th to 5th. after 135 mph is coming on ******* the viper.

Finally someone offering something other than ********, moaning and insults.

Given the Gen 5 is still in it's first inning , I wouldn't take these early reports to seriously ! JMHO

It's not even the first inning, still warm up!

 

[doctorbob]

First things first. I want to apologize to any viper owners or VCA members that I have offended or misconstrued my intent. This is an open forum. I have mentioned my dismay at the results of the two magazines and the use of pre-production cars in previous posts. I am not taking any of this personally nor do I have a closed mind concerning the Viper. Improvement cannot occur without constructive criticism but negative rants get us nowhere. Everyone has lost in this gunfight so far...SRT with publicity....Viper owners with poor performance numbers....and frankly the VCA, in my opinion, with the inappropriate posts that reflect negatively on all of us.

I do have a passion for these cars. Like many Viper owners, I have had every Generation. I am keeping my ACR. I did not order a Generation V Viper since I only saw the production car in New York. I missed only my third VOI because I was in Hawaii on business. I have planned all along (since we are looking at a new generation) to wait until the car was sorted out but I am buying one.

I am looking forward to SRTs response.

In The Reluctant Admiral, Hiroyuki Agawa gives a quotation from a reply by Admiral Yamamoto to Ogata Taketora on January 9, 1941, which is similar to the famous version: "A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack."[SUP][


[/SUP]

 

[aries]

First things first. I want to apologize to any viper owners or VCA members that I have offended or misconstrued my intent. This is an open forum. I have mentioned my dismay at the results of the two magazines and the use of pre-production cars in previous posts. I am not taking any of this personally nor do I have a closed mind concerning the Viper. Improvement cannot occur without constructive criticism but negative rants get us nowhere. Everyone has lost in this gunfight so far...SRT with publicity....Viper owners with poor performance numbers....and frankly the VCA, in my opinion, with the inappropriate posts that reflect negatively on all of us.

I do have a passion for these cars. Like many Viper owners, I have had every Generation. I am keeping my ACR. I did not order a Generation V Viper since I only saw the production car in New York. I missed only my third VOI because I was in Hawaii on business. I have planned all along (since we are looking at a new generation) to wait until the car was sorted out but I am buying one.

I am looking forward to SRTs response.

In The Reluctant Admiral, Hiroyuki Agawa gives a quotation from a reply by Admiral Yamamoto to Ogata Taketora on January 9, 1941, which is similar to the famous version: "A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack."[SUP][


[/SUP]

To quote Yamamoto again ""I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." I hope SRT WAKES UP!!!!

 

[1badacr]

[/B]

God forbid!

Go back to the CF , I've seen your posts over there, and you are indeed a troll

 

[v10enomous]

The Gen V just needs the ACR aero. Hopefully they can deliver an ACR version in the $120k range. I guess you can say it's all riding on a Wing and a Prayer at this point

 

[troublemaker]

There was a thread a while ago about what retro cars would you like to see produced. I didn't have a specific car but more of an old school way of ordering. Some on here aren't after all the luxuries that this car offers, it would be nice to order one stripped of everything people don't want and have the option to go with a light weight version. What does the complete stereo system weigh, offer a ******** version. But I still think one place SRT has screwed up greatly is making these things untunable. If somebody want to put an aftermarket controller on their care, they know the risks to the warranty. If this car could make some serious power through tuning and drop as much weight as possible through component deletes, there would be less bashing of a stock car that got beat. So what if it gets beat stock, let the owners basically choose what they want the performance to be. Even if they manage to beat the ZR1, it's easy to throw some money at a blown car to make enough power to beat the Viper, but the Viper buyers don't have those options. I'm not a fan of the way cars are purchased anymore with packages, maybe I am starting to show my age.

 

[FrankBarba]

Is it time to build an authentic continuation Viper like Super Performance has done with the Shelby's ?
It almost makes sense. You would be able to order as a project, a roller, and then say go to an Authorized Dealer (Like Tator)
have your car finished with the mods you want. You would have to check with your local DMV for your requirements
to register within your state.

If you want a Track Car order it this way.
If you want a Strip down version you can order it.
If you want a driver you can order it.


Even period correct built Ford GT40's are commanding more money that our vipers.

 

[Jeebs]

It really ***** reading all about how this new and improved Viper was going to be SOOO much better. And it is, don't get me wrong. I am a viper owner and would love one day to upgrade into a new one but things would have to change. On both ends. Money for me and performance from them. Given their current numbers, even the GT500 is beating them around the track. So it says on the Laguna website. Now are most of us EVER going to drive these cars this hard. NO. But when you spend this kind of money on a car in this category it should performer at the top of the pile. I think SRT got it right with the Gen5, but came up short by at least 60hp. When you release a car that is suppose to make a statement, you don't aim for the middle of the pack, you ALWAY aim for the top. And they should have came out with a monster and SET the bar, not drive under others.
So maybe now this will force SRT to release the ACR with more power and their Aero kit. Then dominate like it should.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[stingray23]

Go back to the CF , I've seen your posts over there, and you are indeed a troll

If you indeed did see my posts over at the CF, you'd clearly see I'm a fan of the Viper.

 

[troublemaker]

Did I read the Laguna Seca article right? They had to back off the gas to keep the noise down? I know nothing of the track, but how many of the these meters are in place at the track? I will assume a side exhaust doesn't help one bit. I'm not making excuses, Its just that little tidbit just stuck out at me in the article.

 

[09 Venom]

even the GT500 is beating them around the track. So it says on the Laguna website.

no way...i would need visual proof to believe it.

 

[mnc2886]

no way...i would need visual proof to believe it.

The GT500 is at 1:38.7 around Laguna.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_659.html

 

[bushido]

Did I read the Laguna Seca article right? They had to back off the gas to keep the noise down? I know nothing of the track, but how many of the these meters are in place at the track? I will assume a side exhaust doesn't help one bit. I'm not making excuses, Its just that little tidbit just stuck out at me in the article.

One meter. It's a sound booth that's located between T5 and T6.

I'm surprised that these cars set the meter off. I have yet set off the meter in my stock Z06, or ACR,and I'm floored in 3rd going up the straight to T6..

 

[bluestreak]

The GT500 is at 1:38.7 around Laguna.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_659.html

No, that 1:38.7 was with Randy Pobst driving. Randy ran 1:35 in the Gen V while allegedly being scared of the Viper.......


To fuel the fire though the GT500 was on Goodyear F1 supercar street tires vs the claimed R-comps on the Viper. But still, the Viper is faster in the same hands.

 

[mnc2886]

No, that 1:38.7 was with Randy Pobst driving. Randy ran 1:35 in the Gen V while allegedly being scared of the Viper.......


To fuel the fire though the GT500 was on Goodyear F1 supercar street tires vs the claimed R-comps on the Viper. But still, the Viper is faster in the same hands.

I never said it was faster. I was responding to someone's concern that the Mustang was faster. I was showing that it isn't.

 

[bluestreak]

Ok, I thought you may have been confused like the other guy and using that 1:38.7 as proof against the 1:40 the Viper ran with the Journalist driving. Some people don't know the difference.

My bad.

 

[TrackAire]

Did I read the Laguna Seca article right? They had to back off the gas to keep the noise down? I know nothing of the track, but how many of the these meters are in place at the track? I will assume a side exhaust doesn't help one bit. I'm not making excuses, Its just that little tidbit just stuck out at me in the article.

My understanding is the county makes the track have an "average" dB rating. So lets say the track wants you to be at a max of 95 dB. But, since this is America and money talks, you can pay "extra" to be allowed to run a higher dB rating at your event or race (like 105 dB for an upcoming event this summer). As long as the track does not exceed the cumulative "average" dB rating for the year, they are ok with the county. In the meantime, they get to make a little extra coin by charging more so you can make more noise.

Also weather conditions, overcast skies and temperatures make a difference. Back in November at a private track rental at Thunderhill, a friend with a Ford GT got dinged for hitting 104 dB. He has run the exact same car there multiple times and has never had an issue with sound. But, it was overcast and almost raining with cool temps. My car also pegged 104 dB....I run a complete ACR-X race car exhaust. It really ***** having to go around the sound meter area slowly...totally screws up the rhythm of your lap time and consistency.

Cheers,
George

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

I would imagine the MotoGP races have a big effect on that average dB rating.

 

[2003 Viper]

That's BS! I'm a multi viper owner and die hard fan and want this thread to stay up! I want SRT to take notice and get the car right! They need to listen to us owners! So we lost, do you think by closing the thread that makes it all better?! So the only threads that should remain, should be those praising the car? This crying about losing and making excuses is making the current car and owners the laughing stock of the industry

WELL SAID!

 

[sonofadragracer]

This Gen V platform should have come out and raised the bar....period. This Viper, as previous ones have, should have been the "measuring stick" so to speak.
We should not have to be discussing after market headers, cam, supercharger, TT etc. to keep up w/older platforms....period.

Take the Vette off the Track for a bit. The Gen. V Viper is to HEAVY!!..All the CF etc. still to heavy!!! The light fly wheel is nice for quicker rev's. But you're going to loose TQ on the bottom end.
IMO, that's the reason they did the gear change, it was to try and get the car into the TQ range quicker. Now, a good heavy flywheel, w/a 3.55 and you're making some TQ down low.
They should've went w/a hydro alum. frame w/magnesium and chromoly IMO. We know the PSC'S work well, so STAY W/THEM!!!!
As stated before you have 512CI to work with. 720 NA HP should not be a problem. Nice w/forged internals, so put some compression in the da$n thing!

Some of the main racing fundamentals have not been adhered to or utilized properly : 1. GEARS AND TIRES 2. POWER TO WEIGHT 3. CUBIC INCHES

Jus my .02

 

[vancouver-gts]

the rear of that ZR1 looks like it got sliced off...like a peice of bologna.

Actually it isn't a bad thing for performance [ 0-150] having a sort of vedge shape at the rear. The ZR Vette has a drag coefficent of 0.29 vs the srt Viper's 0.369. I'm surprised no one mentioned that yet One of the boxiest car Volvo made [ 740 I think] had a drag coefficient 0.34, decades ago.
Just something to chew on

 

[Jeebs]

Ok, I thought you may have been confused like the other guy and using that 1:38.7 as proof against the 1:40 the Viper ran with the Journalist driving. Some people don't know the difference.

My bad.

My bad too. So I was off by a couple seconds. And some people do know the difference, I just read it wrong. It still doesn't change the rest of my post.

 

[mnc2886]

Actually it isn't a bad thing for performance [ 0-150] having a sort of vedge shape at the rear. The ZR Vette has a drag coefficent of 0.29 vs the srt Viper's 0.369. I'm surprised no one mentioned that yet One of the boxiest car Volvo made [ 740 I think] had a drag coefficient 0.34, decades ago.
Just something to chew on

Tossing around drag coefficients can be a skewed way of comparison. Down force creates drag. With all the aero improvements to attempt to add downforce into the Viper's natural form, I'm not surprised the drag is as high as it is. The Gen IV ACR I believe has a drag coefficient of .382.