Cash discount?

[WilBriK]

Hello,

I will be in the market for a Viper sometime next year (would do it now, but I'm overseas). I would like to get some feedback as to what kind of discount I can expect for paying in cash.

And I don't mean a cashier's check, I mean a stack of (untraceable by the IRS) bills. Due to my line of (legal) work, I am paid in cash and it's tax-free.

So, what would it be worth to a seller if a buyer paid in cash?

 

[plumcrazy]

I tried the same thing and was told it didnt matter...oh well, I bought it anyways.

 

[WilBriK]

Well, the way I was figuring that it would be reciprocally beneficial, is the seller gets part of the payment in cash, and the declared sell price is lower, saving the buyer money on taxes.

Let's say the Viper in question is $50K. If the buyer gives $15K in cash, that's $15K that Uncle Sam doesn't know the seller has, and that's $15K the buyer doesn't have to pay taxes on.

I suppose it's the importance of untraceable cash to the seller that will determine the influence. For example, if $15K income pushes them into a higher tax bracket, it might be important to them.

 

[Yellow Fever]

IMHO if you purchased your Viper through a used car dealer he would give you a slight price break ..But a private party would see little to no benefit.

Cheers

Jeff

 

[CHAD]

I don't see how there would be any benefit to the seller.

Chad

 

[BYT U L8R]

There is no benefit to the private party seller as there ares no taxes to pay on the sale.

The used car saleman might give you a slight break, as mentioned, but the only person who could beneit from a lower selling cost is the buyer and that's only if the selling price is listed way low so the tax paid on the purchase is lower.

 

[plumcrazy]

if I were a private seller the only way id sell it is CASH. no checks accepted. or I'll take a check but you aint getting the car till it clears. bank check and money orders included.

 

[Tiepilot]

You aren't going to get any discount by paying in cash. Even a dealer won't care, cause your going to have to the pay the tax anyway. And why should a private party care since it's NOT taxable income.
If I were selling my car for $45K I wouldn't care if you wrote a check of paid in cash, it's still $45K, but of course your check will have to clear before you drive off, that's the only difference.

Maybe your strategy would work with a used car lot but I doubt it, unless they over priced the car in the first place.

 

[DChan415]

Cash doesnt work at dealers either. In fact, when I worked at a dealership, we got a commission from the bank that financed the car, so we'd rather have the customer finance the car anyway.

 

[HP]

Cash still has an appeal to some dealers and individuals, ever if it is
on the shady side. With agreement by each party, the car can be listed as
sold for less money - saving taxes, and allowing the money to be hidden from
the IRS.

 

[C O D Y]

Most dealers have lending institutions set up that they send the customers to and in return get a kickback. There are times when you will have to pay more with cash when dealing with these dealers.

As for the privite party sale..... the seller gets the same no mater how you pay.

More often the buyer will pay a little more to have the seller write the receipt for less. That way the buyer can save on taxes. For example.... a $50,000 viper being sold in a county with a tax rate of 8% would pay $4,000 in sales tax. If the buyer pays $50,200 to the seller and has him write the sales price as $40,000 the buyer would only pay $3,200 in tax and end up saving $600.

Cash doesnt work at dealers either. In fact, when I worked at a dealership, we got a commission from the bank that financed the car, so we'd rather have the customer finance the car anyway.

 

[ViperJoe]

Unless it's in Miami (where the dealers shop) most reputable dealers would not touch it as amounts over 9k I believe have to be reported by the bank to the IRS. And thanks for being tax free and supporting all the federally funded stuff all the rest of us get stuck with paying. LOL!!!!!

 

[WilBriK]

"And thanks for being tax free and supporting all the federally funded stuff all the rest of us get stuck with paying."

Well, I work for a non-U.S. company and I rarely set foot inside the U.S. anymore, so I'm not taking advantage of any of the federally funded 'stuff'. I don't drive on U.S. roads, I don't use the police/firefighters/paramedics, I don't have kids that go to state schools, etc. etc. etc.

So I have no guilt about not paying taxes

While I lived and worked there, I payed my taxes, above the table, and never complained. But you would be amazed at how Unce Sam tries to keep his hand in your pocket, even when you no longer live in the States. I'll give you an example. In order for me to receive a 100% refund on my income tax, I must stay outside the U.S. for 330 days of the year, even though the company I work for is foreign and my residence is outside the U.S. Other countries have more reasonable policies. Italy, for example, only requires that you work outside the country for 183 days (1 day over 6 months) to get a full refund.

When the gov't tries to pull stunts like this, it makes it much easier from a 'fairness' standpoint to try and shave a bit off the sales tax on a car

 

[joe117]

Like the man said, you can only spend up to $10k in cash at a car dealer without him reporting it to IRS.

That's what is supposed to happen. I don't know if there are any reasons why this might work out otherwise in reality.

 

[Janni]

And as far as sales tax goes - at least in NC, the DMV doesn't care what you paid for the car - they keep a listing of cars' value and you pay tax on that -regardless of what your written receipt says. I think they caught on to the "psst, just write the receipt for $***" scam.

 

[snowmann]

What kind of business do you do? I am dying to know...

 

[GR8_ASP]

So why are you still a US citizen? That is a legal way out and then you can pay the correct taxes to where you do live. I assume that you being on the up and up you are reporting your income there. And if you were you would know that foreign tax credits reduce your US income taxes.

Sounds like you just want to free load off the rest of us. Whether that be the US or elsewhere.

Don't know what kind of company you work for that pays you in cash and does not report the income to anyone. Sounds like a cartel. You wouldn't be working in Colombia would you?

If you do not like my attitude it is because I pay my fair share. And an additional share for all the people who don't pay their share. In effect your taking money out of my pocket to pad yours.

Regarding the cash transaction I personally would not accept cash. That would place me in a liable position if the feds came and stated it was drug or laundered money and thus confiscated it leaving me with no car and no money.

 

[WilBriK]

"So why are you still a US citizen? That is a legal way out and then you can pay the correct taxes to where you do live. I assume that you being on the up and up you are reporting your income there. And if you were you would know that foreign tax credits reduce your US income taxes.

Sounds like you just want to free load off the rest of us. Whether that be the US or elsewhere.

Don't know what kind of company you work for that pays you in cash and does not report the income to anyone. Sounds like a cartel. You wouldn't be working in Colombia would you?"


I'm still a U.S. citizen because I was born in the country. My family's American lineage goes back to the earliest Scottish settlers. I was a U.S. Marine. I went to school at UNC - Chapel Hill. I'm about as American as an American can get.

But just because I'm American, and love the country, doesn't mean I think everything our government does to us is fair. Taxation of foreign income is one of many things that needs to be reformed.

As for where I live, or more specifically, where I am based for work, they HAVE no income taxes. If you haven't guessed by now, I work in Monaco. So even above the board, completely legally, I pay no income tax.


"If you do not like my attitude it is because I pay my fair share. And an additional share for all the people who don't pay their share. In effect your taking money out of my pocket to pad yours.

Perhaps you didn't read my post carefully. I am almost NEVER in the U.S. Thirty days per year or less. I have been out of the country 8 months already, and am not due back for another 10, so why should I pay income taxes to a country I'm not living in, especially when my income is from a company that has nothing to do with the U.S.? As I said before, local income tax is 0%, and that's what I'd like to keep - ALL of it. So because I'm not even in the country, I fail to see how I am taking any money from you or any other tax payer.

As for the sales tax, that is a different form of rip-off. Remember, the state already made its money the first time the car was sold. Now everytime it gets sold, they 'deserve' more money in taxes? Pfffft.

Just because the ass-****** is government sponsored doesn't mean it's not an ass-******. And as you may have guessed, I probably won't be keeping the car in the States, anyway, so no, I don't feel like paying State sales tax on a car that will be shipped overseas.

 

[WilBriK]

"And as far as sales tax goes - at least in NC, the DMV doesn't care what you paid for the car - they keep a listing of cars' value and you pay tax on that -regardless of what your written receipt says."


That's insane. What if the car is a salvage title? What if the previous owner ragged it out? What if the paint is destroyed? Such differences can mean thousands if not tens of thousands towards the value of the car.

If they had an appraiser at the DMV who valued your car for taxation purposes versus the sales price, that I could appreciate, but taxing solely via a blind list is completely unfair.

 

[Janni]

"And as far as sales tax goes - at least in NC, the DMV doesn't care what you paid for the car - they keep a listing of cars' value and you pay tax on that -regardless of what your written receipt says."


That's insane. What if the car is a salvage title? What if the previous owner ragged it out? What if the paint is destroyed? Such differences can mean thousands if not tens of thousands towards the value of the car.

If they had an appraiser at the DMV who valued your car for taxation purposes versus the sales price, that I could appreciate, but taxing solely via a blind list is completely unfair.

Well, we didn't complain because when we bought our 11 mile GTS in December of 1997 they "valued" it at $36K, so it's not an outrageous amount.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Sorry, but with a Dealer in the US they will have to report any cash transaction that involves 10,000 or more. You will be required to fill out a form, and it will go to the IRS. There really is no advantage to anyone ( dealer or customer ) to do a pure cash deal, and it will be easier for you to just shop for a good deal and write a check. Hope this helps, but this is the best way to do it, and it avoids other complications you could cause yourself with a large lump sum of moolah.

 

[kverges]

You know, if you are contemplating tax fraud, you might not want to post it on the web.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Well, I am not going to hold back here. I paid taxes while I was overseas for Uncle Sam. That is right as a part of the Army. Every day was taxable except those when in a military zone. Yes, that is right. The only way to avoid paying the taxes was by being in Vietnam. Somehow I find your excuse feeble.

I could go on and on. I have spent over 6 years of my working life living overseas. And paid taxes the whole time. As President Kennedy said. "It is not what your couuntry can do for you, it is what you can do for your country."

 

[plumcrazy]

am I right in saying that only the bank has to declare you deposited the 10 grand. if the dealer is upfront with his taxes and income he will have to pay taxes on it.

if NOT...........

 

[Tiepilot]

Buy from an individual WilBriK and avoid all tax, except for what you get screwed on for exporting it.

 

[WilBriK]

"Well, I am not going to hold back here. I paid taxes while I was overseas for Uncle Sam. That is right as a part of the Army. Every day was taxable except those when in a military zone. Yes, that is right. The only way to avoid paying the taxes was by being in Vietnam. Somehow I find your excuse feeble."

I don't think I'm getting through to you. According to U.S. tax laws I do not have to pay ANY income tax if I am working out of the country for a non-U.S. firm for at least 330 days in a consecutive 12-month period. I meet these conditions, and as such, I legally do not have to pay income tax to the United States. I am breaking no laws. There is no excuse needed.


"I could go on and on. I have spent over 6 years of my working life living overseas. And paid taxes the whole time. As President Kennedy said. "It is not what your couuntry can do for you, it is what you can do for your country.""

I see. So if the government told you that you don't have to pay taxes, you would do so anyway for love of country? Sure...

 

[WilBriK]

"You know, if you are contemplating tax fraud, you might not want to post it on the web."

If any of my registration information was accurate, and if I wasn't going through an anonymizer to get to this site, I would agree with you. But as it is, any information gleened from here would be worthless.

 

[WilBriK]

"Buy from an individual...and avoid all tax, except for what you get screwed on for exporting it."

This is what I will probably do. Negotiate a price, plop down the cash (or do a wire transfer from Hong Kong, if the seller prefers) and load the car onto a freighter.

 

[kverges]

It's "gleaned" and I'm happy to know that tax fraud is OK if you don't get caught. If you are indeed exporting the car and it will never be registered in the US, then I thought that sales tax would not have to be paid - when I bought my Viper from Pemberton I paid no sales tax, as I had to do that when the car was registered here in Texas. But if the cash deal is done to "hide" finds and "reduce" taxes, it's slimy, plain and simple.

 

[WilBriK]

It's "gleaned" and I'm happy to know that tax fraud is OK if you don't get caught. If you are indeed exporting the car and it will never be registered in the US, then I thought that sales tax would not have to be paid - when I bought my Viper from Pemberton I paid no sales tax, as I had to do that when the car was registered here in Texas. But if the cash deal is done to "hide" finds and "reduce" taxes, it's slimy, plain and simple.

It's "funds" (or maybe you meant "fines") and the tax laws vary from state to state.

Odd that so many on this board are quick to stand-up for the government's right to tax people for questionable reasons, yet would be quick to dismiss a speeding violation as frivilous.